I have been thinking how the term harvesting solar is more than just a cute term and should be considered literally

[Gueyog8a7]

I have been thinking this due to suddenly realizing how electric can/should be seen as a second fuel source which is usually just mentioned as an aside.

I thought this as I have been struggling badly to power my diesel heating since the electrical side is way underplayed. I knew it also required electric that at the start but didn't know just how hard it would be to get enough electricity for basics through the winter.

I am starting to wonder if I should have gotten a wood stove instead as controlling any odour from the fumes (which is the main reason I was against it) is far more in my control, and budget, than trying to squeeze what little electricity I can from solar in these low periods.

Also when harvesting one should move around to find the sweet spot of the sun. I parked out of the shade and went from 0.1 up to 1.1 (for a big anyway). Big change!

So we should consider ourselves solar farmers and gather enough to fuel our stuff.

In this way I am thinking the overpanelling is the way. Gotta get big fields to get average yields in these low months.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

thinking the overpanelling is the way. Gotta get big fields to get average yields in these low months.

Depending on your latitude/locale, variance angle of panels from 90* to the sun makes a far greater difference in winter versus summer.

It sounds like you are mobile? So assuming flat panels on the roof and assuming a more northern latitude you are going to see 5% from the panels if sun angle is not ideal with any clouds and short sun hours.

FWIW: Vertical panels facing South in winter give up way less sun angle than flat panels do in winter.

If it were me I’d add a couple 300W panels to side of whatever vehicle you have if it will accommodate that (van, truck, camper, bus).

I’m in Vermont and we got filtered sun yesterday. The four 315W panels mounted vertically on the side of my S shop wall contributed ~230Ah during the ‘peak’ hours with morning and afternoon still making ~400W ish. Took a lot of charge yesterday: voltage of the LiFePo4 battery bank was 13.3VDC last night and it’s still 13.3 after making coffee this. Probs in the 75%+ SOC range.

I mention that because it illustrates the point. I have 400W westerly that doesn’t make a lot but adds ~200% of the static load for 90 minutes unless the refrigerator is running- then solar is making about even with the consumption. That just extends ‘the daylight’ reducing the total hours the batteries have to handle the load.

In summertime I leave them vertically which means I technically ‘lose’ a lot of potential harvest but it’s irrelevant. The sun hours are so much more it’s irrelevant. Although heavy power tool use does suck me down a lot, the simple fact is my 5kW of batteries are way deep into the fully charged state by 9-10AM much of the time.

The first thing I would do is create a means of tilting the existing panels while parked. Then add some vertical panels either in parallel or better on their own SCC.

Again, depending upon latitude factors, you are going gain way more from panel angle than adding more flat panels that will likely be optimistically 30% at best. But if I did add panels in your circumstance I’d mount them vertical and add more flat panels separately

 

[Gueyog8a7]

Depending on your latitude/locale, variance angle of panels from 90* to the sun makes a far greater difference in winter versus summer.

It sounds like you are mobile? So assuming flat panels on the roof and assuming a more northern latitude you are going to see 5% from the panels if sun angle is not ideal with any clouds and short sun hours.

FWIW: Vertical panels facing South in winter give up way less sun angle than flat panels do in winter.

If it were me I’d add a couple 300W panels to side of whatever vehicle you have if it will accommodate that (van, truck, camper, bus).

I’m in Vermont and we got filtered sun yesterday. The four 315W panels mounted vertically on the side of my S shop wall contributed ~230Ah during the ‘peak’ hours with morning and afternoon still making ~400W ish. Took a lot of charge yesterday: voltage of the LiFePo4 battery bank was 13.3VDC last night and it’s still 13.3 after making coffee this. Probs in the 75%+ SOC range.

I mention that because it illustrates the point. I have 400W westerly that doesn’t make a lot but adds ~200% of the static load for 90 minutes unless the refrigerator is running- then solar is making about even with the consumption. That just extends ‘the daylight’ reducing the total hours the batteries have to handle the load.

In summertime I leave them vertically which means I technically ‘lose’ a lot of potential harvest but it’s irrelevant. The sun hours are so much more it’s irrelevant. Although heavy power tool use does suck me down a lot, the simple fact is my 5kW of batteries are way deep into the fully charged state by 9-10AM much of the time.

The first thing I would do is create a means of tilting the existing panels while parked. Then add some vertical panels either in parallel or better on their own SCC.

Again, depending upon latitude factors, you are going gain way more from panel angle than adding more flat panels that will likely be optimistically 30% at best. But if I did add panels in your circumstance I’d mount them vertical and add more flat panels separately

That is good news about 90 degree as I had planned to place 3x 100 panels on the side and another 2 horizontal. One on the remaining roofspace and one on the car hood which will be a little inclined.

I was thinking just go for 5 more 100w panels making a total of 700w in series to just make things easier. If I can muster 7.5a per day and maybe a few amps per day for my weekly food shop with a b2b charger I think I can get a small surplus as my needs are very small. Just want to cover the heater a couple hours per day as the main thing and odd charge of low powered devices and lights, fans.

One funny thing I noticed today is with the current 2 I was getting wayyy more yields in shade with cloudy weather vs in sunny weather in shade. Do clouds reflect whatever rays the panels absorb better? I was only getting 0.1a for two days of bitter cold but clear skies behind the house in shade but today I was on 0.4-0.6a most of the day with cloud cover all day.

 

[Philip53]

OP: I am starting to wonder if I should have gotten a wood stove instead as controlling any odour from the fumes (which is the main reason I was against it) is far more in my control, and budget, than trying to squeeze what little electricity I can from solar in these low periods.

If you can get free, or nearly free firewood, definitely go with one of the newer wood heaters. We purchased a Silent Flame woodheater, with catalytic secondary re-heat back in 1985. The newest heaters don't use the catalytic system any more, and are just as efficient with their re-burn technology. We absolutley love using our free standing wood heater. The heat it gives off is so much better than our central AC/heating system. I have it centrally mounted in our 2500sf home, and it does a great job heating the entire house. We have a grid connected total electric home, with a geothermal heating & AC system, but don't really use it in the winter. Right now it is 25F degrees outside with a low of 17 last night. Can't say enough about the better heating 'experience' with our wood heater. And NO FUMES!

We also have solar - 10kw of PV panels and 2 - 3' x 10' solar hot water heater panels, which provide 90% of our hot water needs. But even with all of this, we still use the wood heater.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

s thinking just go for 5 more 100w panels making a total of 700w in series to just make things easier. If I can muster 7.5a per day and maybe a few amps per day for my weekly food shop

It is highly probable you can source a 300W ~46VOC new panel for 1/2 the price of three 100W panels FWIW.

Still missed what region you are.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

It is highly probable you can source a 300W ~46VOC new panel for 1/2 the price of three 100W panels FWIW.

Still missed what region you are.

I am in the uk.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

If you can get free, or nearly free firewood, definitely go with one of the newer wood heaters. We purchased a Silent Flame woodheater, with catalytic secondary re-heat back in 1985. The newest heaters don't use the catalytic system any more, and are just as efficient with their re-burn technology. We absolutley love using our free standing wood heater. The heat it gives off is so much better than our central AC/heating system. I have it centrally mounted in our 2500sf home, and it does a great job heating the entire house. We have a grid connected total electric home, with a geothermal heating & AC system, but don't really use it in the winter. Right now it is 25F degrees outside with a low of 17 last night. Can't say enough about the better heating 'experience' with our wood heater. And NO FUMES!

We also have solar - 10kw of PV panels and 2 - 3' x 10' solar hot water heater panels, which provide 90% of our hot water needs. But even with all of this, we still use the wood heater.

I am talking about in a van for now though not on land. I have to find land and during that time will be living in the van which has extremely limited space. I know there are more compact and cheap options like gas bottle stoves (not sure what you call them in the states but just look it up). I am thinking it is better to stick to the route I have chosen with the van since I got this far with diesel heating and just think of it as a stepping stone for when I get land at which point I will have the option of using wood.

Wood in a van I was advised was not a good choice due to wood being less energy dense than diesel and that you can't just use fresh wood as it has to be dried. Taking up loads of space for wood would probably not be feasible in my tiny van and if I didn't it would mean having to source wood for the day every or almost every day which would likely take quite some time. So the diesel option does seem to make more sense for my current situation on review.

I am thinking to cover electricity it would cost near to another £1000 (hidden costs revealing themselves!), £500 for 5 more panels and about £400 for a dc dc charger and related installation bits and pieces. Fingers crossed that would be the last of the big spending but from what I saw probably not and another kettle of worms will come up. Certainly hope the big purchases can slow down after that as things would be pretty much self contained then once I am able to cover the electrical shortfall.

It suddenly got warmer in the UK again now, jumped from -8 back up to +8, so the immediate urgency has passed, so thinking maybe if I hold out a few more weeks I can put off this decision as spring will soon be here negating the need for heating. Then I will have the whole year to search for land and then decide nearer come autumn if I want to do the above if I haven't got land by then.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Then I will have the whole year to search for land and then decide nearer come autumn if I want to do the above if I haven't got land by then.

Good luck to you!

Buying a tiny piece of land for me has been one of the best things I’ve ever done.

I don’t know that I was conscious of “fear” or anxiety while living in rented apartments, etc., but I had some terrible experiences as a renter.
I was a single parent (custodial) with two daughters. The worst ‘terrible experience’ was when the landlord got foreclosed on and (short version) we thereby got evicted through no fault of my own. But I was quite broke at the time- I was paying the rent but it was a financial disaster to not get my deposits back or get repaid for the $1500 of heating fuel I’d bought for the 3-apartment building (because the landlord let it run out).

Like I said, I don’t know that I was conscious of “fear” or anxiety while living in rented apartments (other than the obvious stemming from problems like above). But in contemplating the present- with hindsight- I feel so incredibly blessed, carefree, and grateful that I’m settled without having any risk of suffering the consequences of a landlord’s problems like I did several times.

I hope you keep the thread alive with updates and relate your successes along the way.

My advice is to buy land in the next four or five months. That way you can get established before winter.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

My advice is to buy land in the next four or five months. That way you can get established before winter.

If only it were so simple. I cannot dictate what will be available and I think much harder than the states where land is like water. Uk is small and very few things around. Gotta hunt hard.

Someone else mentioned in another thread I think that land in sweden is easy to buy and cheap however I hate traveling and both my parents are older so don't want to go far while they are still around as I don't want to be hopping back and forth.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

is small and very few things around. Gotta hunt hard

Start talking it up somewhere near you want to live in say, a breakfast cafe. Offer a finder’s fee to the waitress. Everybody “knows” 25-50 people in their weekly routine; so if you ask around your 25-50 people you can reach 1000-2000 people in a month or so. Proactive. Aggressively acting out your intent daily but not getting in anyone’s face or being demanding.
You will meet new people in the store, gas station, your job, church, etc. - whatever, wherever- and you will be rewarded for your efforts. If a property doesn’t suite you ask them who they know that might be open to selling something.
I have ‘business cards’ that just have my name, phone, and town on them so when I’m in search mode I can easily provide contact info

“Talking things up” is how to not only find what you’re looking for, but often it’s how you find things that are available but not available- things for sale that the seller isn’t actively looking to sell but was thinking about selling or would sell if given the opportunity of a buyer.

It sounds dubious or incongruous but active, motivated intent shrinks time.

 

[Rocketman]

When you go to add panels you need to make sure they are setup in a way that will not destroy your current solar charge controller. Hooking them all up in series would probably do that.

You may need a second SCC. Put all flat planes on one and all vertical panels on the other.

Also if panels going into a SCc are not the same there will be a penalty- some penalties are very small others can be big. It all depends on how close the Vmp and the Imp are to the old panels.

If you get considering different panels ask here first and we can figure out - before you buy them if they are a good match to add on to your existing array.

Good Luck

 

[Gueyog8a7]

When you go to add panels you need to make sure they are setup in a way that will not destroy your current solar charge controller. Hooking them all up in series would probably do that.

I don't think so. I looked this up already and seems the tracer bn 4215 can be massively overpanelled and someone showed me a link that it could take up to 1500w. I believe that would be in series.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

the tracer bn 4215 can be massively overpanelled and someone showed me a link that it could take up to 1500w. I believe that would be in series.

No. Maybe. Probably not.

With 100W panels- wildhat number estimates following- they’ll be ~22VOC and about 5A each. 1500W in series would be 330VOC - and one dead 150V max Epever SCC. Even 6 in series would be 132VOC which could crowd your low temp 150VOC.
Overpanelled is fine subject to respecting the VOC of the SCC.

4S2P is about the max useful overpanelling you can reasonably do with 100W commodity panels.

That’s why I suggested side-mounting a 300-400W+ panel in parallel(depending) or best through a second SCC. It’s an easier bang for the buck and probably less expensive per watt by enough to notice.

 

[Gueyog8a7]

No. Maybe. Probably not.

With 100W panels- wildhat number estimates following- they’ll be ~22VOC and about 5A each. 1500W in series would be 330VOC - and one dead 150V max Epever SCC. Even 6 in series would be 132VOC which could crowd your low temp 150VOC.
Overpanelled is fine subject to respecting the VOC of the SCC.

4S2P is about the max useful overpanelling you can reasonably do with 100W commodity panels.

That’s why I suggested side-mounting a 300-400W+ panel in parallel(depending) or best through a second SCC. It’s an easier bang for the buck and probably less expensive per watt by enough to notice.

No need to guess here they are. Here is a link to the manual. On page 10 are the panelling details. Can you clarify then with the precise information what the maximum series and parallel I could do with the 100w panels? I am still not confident on the technical stuff.

What do you mean by

Even 6 in series would be 132VOC which could crowd your low temp 150VOC.

132 is well below 150 so what is the issue?

 

[12VoltInstalls]

No need to guess here they are

I’m the wrong guy.
I’d never buy a flexible panel ever.

132 is well below 150 so what is the issue

Low temperature raises VOC as much as +/- 15% so you could exceed 150V in cold temperatures

 

[OffGridForGood]

and if you are lookking for land, Canada and Australia have loads, and small populations.
I have never seen a flexible PV panel with anything close to the same output per sqm as standard panels.