looking for some help/guidance IRT wiring, THHN vs UF-B vs THWN vs etc. etc. etc.

[Daddy Tanuki]

finally trying to bring my inverters, and house/shop wiring to roughly US specs or better (currently Japanese hodgepodge specs.) and I am attempting to understand and compare US specifications for wiring to Japanese measurements so that I can convert it to the local Japanese specs when trying to order, that or I can compare prices to see if it might be cheaper to order from the states via the USPS. (i have base access)

looking at pictures just does not compute in my brain most of the time, and trying to explain to Japanese suppliers is a PITA. so I was hoping that somebody that is currently doing wiring on a system could set aside few samples of wiring in 6" lengths so that I can compare them to the Japanese offerings.

I need 6" of samples of the following

4 wire THHN/THWN in 6AWG (is this normally single or multi strand?)
UF-B in 6/3-UFB
6 AWG XHHW building wire (or thicker)

if someone could set aside a few 6" (inch) pieces of the above and mail them to me, I will of course pay for postage and for your time. (Or I can gladly source and send back something from Japan you might want.)

anybody who can help please PM me.

@Hedges , @Brucey @sunshine_eggo If you know someone who is currently doing their wiring in the US and might be able to help can you pass the word on?

thanks, Ken

 

[DIYrich]

6awg is likely stranded. Tough to bend a solid core that size.

AWG to MM Conversion Calculator and Table - Easily convert AWG to MM

An easy conversion guide from AWG to mm including a simple pull down calculator that converts AWG to mm. Find the correct cable easily.

www.electricalworld.com

"4" just means number of conductors, plus ground. 4 wire is probably 3 wire (two hot plus neutral) plus ground.
Uf-b is direct burial rated (24 inches deep minimum).

 

[ThaiTaffy]

6awg is likely stranded. Tough to bend a solid core that size.

AWG to MM Conversion Calculator and Table - Easily convert AWG to MM

An easy conversion guide from AWG to mm including a simple pull down calculator that converts AWG to mm. Find the correct cable easily.

www.electricalworld.com

"4" just means number of conductors, plus ground. 4 wire is probably 3 wire (two hot plus neutral) plus ground.
Uf-b is direct burial rated (24 inches deep minimum).

Doesn't work like that in Asia you can literally give a wholesaler a cad drawing and full spec sheet of a cable and they still get it wrong, having something physical to place in their hands tends to be the best approach.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

6awg is likely stranded. Tough to bend a solid core that size.

AWG to MM Conversion Calculator and Table - Easily convert AWG to MM

An easy conversion guide from AWG to mm including a simple pull down calculator that converts AWG to mm. Find the correct cable easily.

www.electricalworld.com

"4" just means number of conductors, plus ground. 4 wire is probably 3 wire (two hot plus neutral) plus ground.
Uf-b is direct burial rated (24 inches deep minimum).

understand that part, the place where we are having communications hangups is that they seems to measure their wire differntly, and its not metric, its not AWG or anything i have encountered. anything that I do for work, the government would supply the materials in question (normally) but the work I do on ships is either AC/R, Structural fabrication, or if it is electrical it is with cables the size of your forearm, so even pinching some samples from work does not help me.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Doesn't work like that in Asia you can literally give a wholesaler a cad drawing and full spec sheet of a cable and they still get it wrong, having something physical to place in their hands tends to be the best approach.

exactly...

 

[DIYrich]

Can you tell them how many amps you want the wire to carry?

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

Can you tell them how many amps you want the wire to carry?

thats where the rub lies, they have a multistranded wire that is thicker than 6 awg and claim that it is not thick enough for 40 amps continuous, but everything in the US indicates it should be good enough for more.

example given for wire for sale in the US. 6AWG XHHW 55 Amps at 60ºC / 65 Amps at 75ºC / 75 Amps at 90ºC

i understand that this is a function of heat and the material that wire is insulated with, but 15 amps difference? the most I would push is 34 amps at 240 (according to the manual for my two inverters when paired in parallel). and I would think that 40 amps of capacity would be fine.

they want to sell me a cable that is much, much thicker (hence expensive) and its rating is closer to 80 amps. the other thing is they do not list breakdowns for temperature (at least we have not reached that stage of discussion. they might be looking at worst case enclosed in conduit etc. etc. etc. who knows? if I had a sample or two to show them it would be easier to explain to them.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

something like this looks like it would be perfect for what I want to do, but explaining it to them is driving me to distraction.

or this

 

[ThaiTaffy]

thats where the rub lies, they have a multistranded wire that is thicker than 6 awg and claim that it is not thick enough for 40 amps continuous, but everything in the US indicates it should be good enough for more.

example given for wire for sale in the US. 6AWG XHHW 55 Amps at 60ºC / 65 Amps at 75ºC / 75 Amps at 90ºC

i understand that this is a function of heat and the material that wire is insulated with, but 15 amps difference? the most I would push is 34 amps at 240 (according to the manual for my two inverters when paired in parallel). and I would think that 40 amps of capacity would be fine.

they want to sell me a cable that is much, much thicker (hence expensive) and its rating is closer to 80 amps. the other thing is they do not list breakdowns for temperature (at least we have not reached that stage of discussion. they might be looking at worst case enclosed in conduit etc. etc. etc. who knows? if I had a sample or two to show them it would be easier to explain to them.

Have you had a good look at the cable they've offered? Thai made cables normally have basic specifics as far as CSA and temp rating written on them though feeling how flexible they are I'd translate any data sheet to check alloy composition solid core feels like fine strand flex in the hand.

No doubt you know but Google lens is indispensable for expats, speaking the language isn't so bad but hieroglyphs seem easier to understand compared to the squiggles they write down on paper here.

 

[Hedges]

I only have the THHN/THWN 4 awg.
The 6 awg is same type, not XHHW. Also some Romex.
The UF is only 12 or 10 awg.

The electrician types might have better selection. @timselectric

You didn't specify copper vs. aluminum

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I only have the THHN/THWN 4 awg.
The 6 awg is same type, not XHHW. Also some Romex.
The UF is only 12 or 10 awg.

The electrician types might have better selection. @timselectric

You didn't specify copper vs. aluminum

thanks looking at copper only as I am not even sure if they allow aluminum over here as I have never seen it in 40 years of living here.

 

[timselectric]

I don't do much residential work, so I don't have much of a selection of wire types in stock. Pretty much everything I do is in conduit with THHN/THWN.

It's possible that the conductors offered are less pure copper over there. And that's why it requires a larger conductor to carry the same amount of current.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

It's possible that the conductors offered are less pure copper over there. And that's why it requires a larger conductor to carry the same amount of current.

It's definitely the case here but I would have thought Japan was a fair bit more quality orientated, though it could be a safety thing also maybe they have much tighter +/-% on their cable specs and prefer to round down more.

 

[Brucey]

finally trying to bring my inverters, and house/shop wiring to roughly US specs or better (currently Japanese hodgepodge specs.) and I am attempting to understand and compare US specifications for wiring to Japanese measurements so that I can convert it to the local Japanese specs when trying to order, that or I can compare prices to see if it might be cheaper to order from the states via the USPS. (i have base access)

looking at pictures just does not compute in my brain most of the time, and trying to explain to Japanese suppliers is a PITA. so I was hoping that somebody that is currently doing wiring on a system could set aside few samples of wiring in 6" lengths so that I can compare them to the Japanese offerings.

I need 6" of samples of the following

4 wire THHN/THWN in 6AWG (is this normally single or multi strand?)
UF-B in 6/3-UFB
6 AWG XHHW building wire (or thicker)

if someone could set aside a few 6" (inch) pieces of the above and mail them to me, I will of course pay for postage and for your time. (Or I can gladly source and send back something from Japan you might want.)

anybody who can help please PM me.

@Hedges , @Brucey @sunshine_eggo If you know someone who is currently doing their wiring in the US and might be able to help can you pass the word on?

thanks, Ken

I can send you some of this metal conduit 19 strand 4 wire if it helps:

Amazon.com

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

4 or 5 inches of anything anybody has would be great, just mark it with whatever its AWG is in the states or if it has a nomenclature that is specific note that as well. that way when I go to compare Apples to Lingo's i know what to call it in engrish. Just PM me with your Paypal data so I can get you paid for the postage and time spent.

 

[740GLE]

How is it going to be installed? I have 8awg UF (3 conductor not 4) I could send you it’s as stiff as a coffin nail and def not suited to run through a building with any sort of bends, I can’t imagine what 6awg would feel like.

There’s a reason why single conductor is nice once you get to larger gauge.

 

[DIYrich]

I have 4awg battery cable. And 12/2 uf-b, and 12/2 nmc.

I could stop by Home Depot and buy a foot of whatever size they have. Search the West Hartford, CT for in stock for sale by the foot.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

first let me clarify I just need short 4-6" pieces to use as an example for the local supply companies so I need whatever size would be used for a constant 40 amps. (would never be constant and would probably upsize to something that could handle 50 or 60 amps just to be safe.)

i was looking at this size as it says it is good to 55 amps at 60°c

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/6-awg-thhn-building-wire

The wiring in question is between the main power panel in the shop where the inverters and the batteries are all located to the sub panel at the house. and between the sub power panel in the house to the the water heater. so its about a 30-35 meter run including ups downs etc, with no major bends until it goes under the house and comes up through the wall. then another 10 meter run to the water heater. I buried a 4" PVC pipe about 8 years ago that the current wiring is running in. originally I ran what looks like this (but 4 wire) L1, L2 N and G.


and was told it was good for 20 amps@ 240 volts , that was before I got all of the lofty ideas about running an electric water heater/boiler and a split pack A/C unit. it works for the current setup, but once I add the second inverter it will be undersized.

so hoping to go to something that looks like this in a heavy enough gauge to support the two magnums running full tilt which according to their spec sheets should be 40 amps continuous on L1 to L2, or 8800 watts at 240 volts






The japanese have cables that look like this, but we are having a disagreement on how much power it can carry based on its size. so I wanted samples that I can compare to what they are offering.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

How is it going to be installed?

it will be run underground in a 4" pipe i installed 8 years ago, then come up under the house and if need run in conduit from there.

 

[SparkyJJO]

I have 6 AWG THHN, but not the other stuff. My only UF I have around is 12 or 14 AWG.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

first let me clarify I just need short 4-6" pieces to use as an example for the local supply companies so I need whatever size would be used for a constant 40 amps. (would never be constant and would probably upsize to something that could handle 50 or 60 amps just to be safe.)

i was looking at this size as it says it is good to 55 amps at 60°c

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/6-awg-thhn-building-wire

The wiring in question is between the main power panel in the shop where the inverters and the batteries are all located to the sub panel at the house. and between the sub power panel in the house to the the water heater. so its about a 30-35 meter run including ups downs etc, with no major bends until it goes under the house and comes up through the wall. then another 10 meter run to the water heater. I buried a 4" PVC pipe about 8 years ago that the current wiring is running in. originally I ran what looks like this (but 4 wire) L1, L2 N and G.

View attachment 227714

This seems to be 6242Y British spec cable just with different colours.

and was told it was good for 20 amps@ 240 volts , that was before I got all of the lofty ideas about running an electric water heater/boiler and a split pack A/C unit. it works for the current setup, but once I add the second inverter it will be undersized.

so hoping to go to something that looks like this in a heavy enough gauge to support the two magnums running full tilt which according to their spec sheets should be 40 amps continuous on L1 to L2, or 8800 watts at 240 volts


View attachment 227715



The japanese have cables that look like this, but we are having a disagreement on how much power it can carry based on its size. so I wanted samples that I can compare to what they are offering.

I think your on the right track better you work things out in watts rather than amps for your conversions bearing in mind most US amperages are worked out at 120v and British/EU& Asian cables are 220v the wattage have to be almost double

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I have 6 AWG THHN, but not the other stuff. My only UF I have around is 12 or 14 AWG.

can you spare or sell a 6" piece and mail it to me? going to PM.

 

[SparkyJJO]

can you spare or sell a 6" piece and mail it to me? going to PM.

I can. Just don't want you spending more on shipping than necessary if you could get it all in one package vs here and there. Unless that doesn't matter.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

I can. Just don't want you spending more on shipping than necessary if you could get it all in one package vs here and there. Unless that doesn't matter.

i think the 6 AWG THHN is the way to go, unless for electrical reasons it is not. My mailing address is a USPS military postal address so shipping is not that bad. if the consensus is that 6 AWG THHN is good enough then I have two options. order it from the states via the link i posted, or find something that is comparable here and buy locally. not sure which is cheaper but until I can get a sample to show them, I am at a loggerhead

 

[Mattb4]

understand that part, the place where we are having communications hangups is that they seems to measure their wire differntly, and its not metric, its not AWG or anything i have encountered. anything that I do for work, the government would supply the materials in question (normally) but the work I do on ships is either AC/R, Structural fabrication, or if it is electrical it is with cables the size of your forearm, so even pinching some samples from work does not help me.

It was my understanding that metric wire measurements were in cross sectional area so it would be a square value. It is why a 6mm square wire is actually bigger than a 10awg wire (5.56mm2). In the US wire was measured in a standard of how many would fit in a 1 inch diameter circle. Thus 10awg would be 10 equal size wires in an inch. When you use stranded it simply means that the strands equal the same diameter as a solid size wire of the gauge.

Amperage capacity for wires, as you mentioned, is a factor of insulation type, resistance of metal, and if contained in conduit or open air.

Your supplier of wire should have no shortage of tables on what meets the standards for allowable amperage.