Low vs High frequency inverters

[Sparkie220]

Just as I was beginning to purchase the EG4 6000xp like in Wills 48 volt guide. I was watching a video and a comment I seen said that the poster would be better off going with a low frequency inverter and his would not last very long and sooooo... Now I'm second guessing my purchase. I'm just using it for lights, TV, PlayStation fridge and mini split.

Thanks

 

[Sparkie220]

Thanks but found my answer....

 

[G00SE]

The 6kxp has been very robust so far.
I can recall my first month or so on this forum feeling a similar sentiment or opinion. That I just wanted/needed a low frequency and nothing else was durable enough
And there’s been at least half a dozen high frequency inverters in the last couple years to come out since that have thousands and thousands of users with success.

 

[Tulex]

Curious as to what the answer is, especially having taken you only 4 minutes.

 

[TimE]

My understanding is it depends what you are using it for. If you intend to run high inductive loads such as motors found on AC watermakers, a low frequency inverter will be more reliable. If you just want to run resistive loads like water heaters, then a high frequency inverter will be fine.

 

[Steve_S]

Inversion Methods Explained: High Frequency vs Low Frequency | Magnum Dimensions

Understand the difference between high frequency and low frequency inverters with this quick article.

www.magnum-dimensions.com

 

[RCinFLA]

Low frequency core can absorb longer time period of peak core magnetic flux and enters core saturation less abruptly.

On any transformer, saturate the core and MOSFET driver transistors current rockets to destructive levels. Small high frequency ferrite core transformers saturate quickly giving little time for any overload detection circuitry to react and shutdown inverter to save MOSFET drivers.

Also on HF inverters, there is over twice the number of parts. Defect/failure probability stacks up.

 

[Sparkie220]

Ok, here's a question. Wouldn't a soft start fix the problem. Say the load I'm concerned about would be a window unit. Thanks

 

[Sparkie220]

Also, I'm comfortable with running the power from the inverter to a power strip but does anyone know where I can find a good guide about running it to the breaker box? I'm a complete noob but I want to learn to do it myself. I can't wait for my inverter to get here!! I got the 6000xp and the wall mount battery.
But now I'm seeing 24 volt 100 ah lithium batteries for 480 and 500 bucks.. I could have built one for cheaper and now I am stuck with that big battery and the only way to expand is to buy another wall mount battery. Hmmm

 

[tenacious]

I'm planning on going off-grid in the next couple years and have ran into the same "second-guessing" with low and high frequency inverters. Most of the loads in my house I'm planning on just using a couple 6000xp EG4 inverters. But for the inductive loads, such as my well pump and heater blower motor, I was thinking of using a low-frequency inverter for them, especially since they are always turning off and on and would beat-up the mosfets quickly IMO. I also had the idea of can a soft-start device be used on these high inductive loads to not need the low-frequency inverter?

 

[Hedges]

Inversion Methods Explained: High Frequency vs Low Frequency | Magnum Dimensions

Understand the difference between high frequency and low frequency inverters with this quick article.

www.magnum-dimensions.com

"The massive iron core transformer is aptly capable of absorbing surge loads because of the “Flywheel Effect” inherent in the physical amount of a transformer’s iron."

Marketing BS.

The amount of energy stored in magnetization of a transformer's core is a few percent of a single 60 Hz phase. (Exception being ferro-resonant transformers, which are quite massive, on the order of 250 lbs. for 250W)

That same mass of iron, if used in the armature of a generator spinning 3600 RPM, now THAT would be enough to provide flywheel effect. Both figuratively and literally.

It is other aspects of the LF architecture which make it good for surge loads (effectively couples battery directly to load, not relying on intermediate storage in inductors or capacitors.) But some new HF inverters are delivering longer 2x surge than the highly regarded LF true sine wave inverters, like 60 seconds vs. 3 seconds.

The only architecture I'm seeing which does better is "Warpverter" or the early Trace inverters. Those are several MSW LF inverters of different frequency, in series, a staircase waveform to create sinewave.

 

[fatjay]

Also, I'm comfortable with running the power from the inverter to a power strip but does anyone know where I can find a good guide about running it to the breaker box? I'm a complete noob but I want to learn to do it myself. I can't wait for my inverter to get here!! I got the 6000xp and the wall mount battery.
But now I'm seeing 24 volt 100 ah lithium batteries for 480 and 500 bucks.. I could have built one for cheaper and now I am stuck with that big battery and the only way to expand is to buy another wall mount battery. Hmmm

Post first, buy later.

And those 24v 100ah batteries are typically not very well built or long lasting, where the eg4's have good reputation, warranty, and support.

If you don't know anything, i'd start watching youtube, will's channel is strait and to the point, no gimmick or bs.

You don't go out to the breaker box, you buy a new breaker box. It is not a grid tie system, it's an off grid. You have a battery and inverter, you need solar panels and a power source so you can plug your inverter in.

Electricity can kill you if not handled correctly. Anything you do is at your own risk. You can also burn your house down, killing your family. So I would recommend doing a lot of research before hand.

 

[Brucey]

Also, I'm comfortable with running the power from the inverter to a power strip but does anyone know where I can find a good guide about running it to the breaker box? I'm a complete noob but I want to learn to do it myself. I can't wait for my inverter to get here!! I got the 6000xp and the wall mount battery.
But now I'm seeing 24 volt 100 ah lithium batteries for 480 and 500 bucks.. I could have built one for cheaper and now I am stuck with that big battery and the only way to expand is to buy another wall mount battery. Hmmm

So the big wall mount battery is basically the equivalent to six of those 24V 100Ah batteries (48V 280Ah versus 48V 300Ah with six 24V batteries in 2S3P), and then has ul listing, heating, and communications.

The value play is something like the ecoworthy 12V 280Ah for $520, that'll get you to 48V 280Ah for $2080. No comms etc tho.

 

[Hedges]

youtube, will's channel is strait and to the point, no gimmick or bs.

Well, it once was:

Definition of STRAIT

a comparatively narrow passageway connecting two large bodies of water —often used in plural but singular in construction; isthmus; a narrow space or passage… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Brucey]

All I can add to the discussion is that I can start my propane dryer with my Victron 48/1200 inverter that cost $334 whereas my $1500 Delta 2 max portable aio rated for 1800W/2400VA output will shutdown with overload message.

 

[tenacious]

All I can add to the discussion is that I can start my propane dryer with my Victron 48/1200 inverter that cost $334 whereas my $1500 Delta 2 max portable aio rated for 1800W/2400VA output will shutdown with overload message.

Yeah Victron's are top-notch.

 

[Moretorque]

All I can add to the discussion is that I can start my propane dryer with my Victron 48/1200 inverter that cost $334 whereas my $1500 Delta 2 max portable aio rated for 1800W/2400VA output will shutdown with overload message.

Which Victron or Victrons inverter charge controller do you suggest?

 

[Brucey]

Which Victron or Victrons inverter charge controller do you suggest?

What are your load requirements?

 

[wpns]

I've got an SMA 10KW WR11TU20 'evil high frequency' inverter that's been plugging along since 2015 with nary a problem (*), so I suspect that it's more build quality and proper engineering, testing, and reliability enhancement work than it is 'LF Good, HF Bad'.

(*) Something weird in the fan speed modulation, but if they don't care I don't care, and I got the extended warranty that runs out in 2035. Also one burned AC wire when I didn't tighten the screws yearly, but that's on me, and was easier to fix than to find.

 

[TimE]

I've got an SMA 10KW WR11TU20 'evil high frequency' inverter that's been plugging along since 2015 with nary a problem (*), so I suspect that it's more build quality and proper engineering, testing, and reliability enhancement work than it is 'LF Good, HF Bad'.

(*) Something weird in the fan speed modulation, but if they don't care I don't care, and I got the extended warranty that runs out in 2035. Also one burned AC wire when I didn't tighten the screws yearly, but that's on me, and was easier to fix than to find.

What are you using it for?