Multiple N-G Bonds - Want to fix

[TechRider]

Hello Everyone,

I'm in the process of ordering everything for my first solar install. I'm a DIY kinda guy so I'm doing nearly everything myself. A year or so ago, I had the generator that came with my house replaced. It was a "half house" and I upgraded to a "whole house." The main difference is the original was 14kw and serviced a panel with an ATS in it, the new one is 24kW and has an ATS at my meter base. I've been planing my wire paths and controlling the generator with my inverter. I downloaded generacs guide to figure out the wiring and noticed they had the ground and neutral bonded in the panel with a note that it could be removed depending on your install.

My primary panel was supposed to be my only G-N bond so I opened the ATS panel to find the factory installed G-N bond in place. I obviously want to fix this but where do I remove the bond from? I think I'd like to keep it in my main panel because that's what I've seen most diagrams show. Even the Sol-Ark diagram I'm following shows the bond at the main panel. I've read that it should be close to the main power source. In that case, the ATS would be ahead of the inverter and my main panel would be the first thing after.

So, what's the right way to fix this?

Thanks!

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

following for info, as this is one of the confounding things to me even though my system is up and running it does not meet code even for japan, (which I am not arguing about) just need more info so all please chine in. grounding is one of the most underappreciated and less than understood things about our systems and the various government entities cannot agree on it themselves.,

 

[Bkord]

Hello Everyone,

I'm in the process of ordering everything for my first solar install. I'm a DIY kinda guy so I'm doing nearly everything myself. A year or so ago, I had the generator that came with my house replaced. It was a "half house" and I upgraded to a "whole house." The main difference is the original was 14kw and serviced a panel with an ATS in it, the new one is 24kW and has an ATS at my meter base. I've been planing my wire paths and controlling the generator with my inverter. I downloaded generacs guide to figure out the wiring and noticed they had the ground and neutral bonded in the panel with a note that it could be removed depending on your install.

My primary panel was supposed to be my only G-N bond so I opened the ATS panel to find the factory installed G-N bond in place. I obviously want to fix this but where do I remove the bond from? I think I'd like to keep it in my main panel because that's what I've seen most diagrams show. Even the Sol-Ark diagram I'm following shows the bond at the main panel. I've read that it should be close to the main power source. In that case, the ATS would be ahead of the inverter and my main panel would be the first thing after.

So, what's the right way to fix this?

Thanks!

can you draw a picture showing all the wiring from your meter to all other panels

 

[TechRider]

There's a basic idea of it. Basically the ATS has a factory installed N-G bond that I believe should be removed. My main panel has the N-G Bond that I think should be kept.

 

[hwy17]

I'm 90% sure you want to unbond the ATS. There are exceptions to the bond first means of disconnect rule and I think this is one of them.

 

[Bkord]

I would leave the bond in the transfer switch and unbond the main panel. This may be more work. If you have to separate all neutrals and grounds in the main panel.

 

[B-Mod]

Does the transfer switch have a main disconnect for the whole house, like kills the grid coming in?

 

[TechRider]

Yes, it's got a disconnect.

My panel does have a few shared ground/neutral bars. Thankfully most of my breakers are GFCI/AFCI so most of the neutrals are wired there.

 

[B-Mod]

Yes, it's got a disconnect.

My panel does have a few shared ground/neutral bars. Thankfully most of my breakers are GFCI/AFCI so most of the neutrals are wired there.

Sad to say but your transfer switch is now your first panel. Ground rods need to go to it also. Your house load panel is a sub panel, need ground neutrals separated there, no bond. If an electrician did the transfer switch install go back after him to do the job to code.

 

[Supervstech]

The ground rods do not need to be routed through the ats, but IT should be the only means of N/G bond.
The grounding conductor to the ats must be sized for the entire earth connection, so solid #6 or 4

 

[B-Mod]

The ground rods do not need to be routed through the ats, but IT should be the only means of N/G bond.
The grounding conductor to the ats must be sized for the entire earth connection, so solid #6 or 4

I have never taken a ground rod to a sub panel and not the first means of disconnect. What happens if someone removes that wire? I would sleep better knowing the transfer switch was correctly wired as the first disconnect.

 

[TechRider]

The factory installed wire is large, at least a #6 but I didn't look that closely. I'll work towards removing the N-G bond on my main panel.

I'm adding more ground rods to my installation so I'll make sure the ATS has a good ground as well. They have a larger green coated wire that disappeared somewhere so I'll have to track that down as well.

 

[millsan1]

Your ATS is your first means of disconnect, and I believe per NEC, that is where ground has to be. You would unbond at main panel.

 

[TechRider]

The plot thickens a bit...

I ran my new ground rods already and am going to hook them to my main for a total of 4 rods. I looked a little more closely at the grounding of the ATS and it has wires going to the ground lugs but none of them connect to anything grounded! There is a large ground wire and I assumed that's what they used but it runs to my generator. Essentially, the only connection to ground at the ATS is through the neutral to my main panel.

Here's what I'm planning on doing once I kill the power to the house.

1. Since the primary ground rod is about 16" from that panel, I'm going to run another #4 solid wire from the ground block to the ground rod.
2. Unbound/separate the grounds and neutrals at my main panel so it will be a sub panel.

With that done, the ATS will be my first disconnect and everything else will be a sub panel.

 

[TechRider]

Well that wasn't a fun process but it's done! The ATS is now my primary N-G bonding point and all the grounds have been separated from the neutrals at my main panel. At the same time, pulled new 2/0 copper to my inverter and I would say the cleaning up the N/G issue took longer than pulling and installing the new cable.

Thanks for all the suggestions!