CostOptimizer
New Member
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My 44kW vertical and bifacial set in Finland.
- Thread starter shadowmaker
- Start date
CostOptimizer
New Member
Een Alibaba verkoper heeft een half-CIF, half-DDP aangeboden:
- CIF
- Customs clearance 150 Euro
- Freight 133 Euro
- Destination port fee 599 Euro
wat ik moet nog doen is: BTW betalen, en op een aanhanger laden om naarhuis te gaan.
Anders doet hij alleen maar CIF, en hij geeft mij 150 + 133 + 599 Euro korting om zelf een importing agent in te huren (www.ademar.nl)
Werkt dit goed of niet ?
Switching back to English so everyone can follow. And This really should go into another thread because we're hijacking @shadowmaker 's thread.
CIF means you're also responsible for any and all import formalities and you are responsible for getting insurance (the seller contracts for carriage and insurance, but you assume the risks once it's on the boat). If you've done that before, CIF is fine. There is no such thing as a half-CIF/half-DDP.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
Not much to compare with, but yearly target was 40MWh, PVWatts predicted 42MWh for my setup and 44,6MWh came true. It seems to work really nicely with snow (even blizzards) and fog. There's a study saying that due to snow covered panels here in Finland almost half the amount of summer production can be wasted. I'm pretty sure my close to vertical (80-85 degree) array is loosing some (10%???) summer production due to bad sun angle, but that's OK as in summer I have more production than I can use anyway. I could sell that extra to grid, but usually selling prices are really low at that time. The whole point with my setup was to optimize winter production and It seems to do that really well. A bit of a surprise was that even how winter optimized your setup is there's almost zero production if sun decides to hide behind clouds in December. I mean my daily record so far has been 340kWh (April, snow on the ground), but there were many ridiculously low 2kWh days around Christmas.
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CostOptimizer
New Member
Wow, December ' worst is equal to 0.6% of April's best.
Can you post your monthly production ?
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
Monthly productions and PVWatts predictions are all mentioned in this thread. If you want to find Dec-23 production just look for few first posts in Jan-24.
Nov-Dec-Jan is so bad here that doubling my PV to 88kWp would do almost nothing meaningful productionwise especially compared to my usage. Chance has big impact as having 10 sunny days instead of two in December makes huge difference. In Dec sun rises only ~5 degrees above horizon and day is 5 hours long. Now in the end of April sun raises ~43 degrees above horizon and day is almost 16,5 hours long already. The difference is huge.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
270kWh today. Almost perfect day.
Backside production at 21.00.
Also witnessed 5,5kW power transfer between Deyes through LOAD-ports (Deyes not AC-coupled with GTIs, but GTIs pushing power to my loads/grid so keep an eye left side of the screen only). Upper one delivering power to lower one to charge its battery enabling 13,21kW charge with only 7,5kW PV power.
Backside production at 21.00.
Also witnessed 5,5kW power transfer between Deyes through LOAD-ports (Deyes not AC-coupled with GTIs, but GTIs pushing power to my loads/grid so keep an eye left side of the screen only). Upper one delivering power to lower one to charge its battery enabling 13,21kW charge with only 7,5kW PV power.
Yeah, today was an awesome day 
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
Got Deye12K to my FIL and he is going to connect 6,6kWp to MPPT1 and his old 3kWp array to MPPT2. Now he wants to add more panels to MPPT2 with 180 degree difference in azimuth (adjacent slope in his roof) by paralleling strings and wants to use 3-way split with MC4 connectors including diodes in both strings leads. This is supposed to prevent strings fighting each others when other is in sun and the other isn't. I told him it's a bad idea, but then what would I know...
Anyone?
Anyone?
houseofancients
Solar Wizard
Parallei strings work just fine both in theory and practice. No need for diodes.
Just need to match the string voltages reasonably close (10-20%) to each other, mismatch in string voltage is lost energy.
CostOptimizer
New Member
Given this production per year, in how many years would you get your investment back ?
400bird
Solar Wizard
That's pretty neat, and lots of energy!
Do you see production fall off in the morning at evening as the Sun is directly in line with the frames? Like due east or west?
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
Even while other string is totally shaded and other one is having full sun?
Would be fun to test without and with diodes though as I understood those 3-way splitters are cheap.
Yeah even when one string would be in pitch black cave and another in full sunlight.
Solar panel is a string of diodes connected in series. It will draw very little to no current if the (externally applied) voltage is lower than the diode string voltage.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
As I DIYed everything my cost with GTIs (4x Bluesun15K) only and no battery would have been ~0,85e/W. This was my initial plan. ROI maybe 3-5 years?
Then I got a 30kWh (C/5 rating) lead acid battery and 7,2kWh UPS for free and found unused 3kWh UPS for 600e and decided to sell two GTIs and get two hybrid Deye12Ks instead plus bought some LFP too. With lead, 75kWh LFP batteries and 2x Deye12K it came ~1,35e/W. With batteries/hybrid inverters it gets more expensive, but I can also manage my self usage better and even sometimes grid charge cheap and then sell back to grid with decent profit when spot prices are up. ROI maybe 5-7 years?
At first there were economics involved, but now not so much anymore. It'd be fun to be self sufficient someday. Not off-grid style, but to survive few weeks even few moths grid outage in case of emergency. Our east neighbor has leader with big time Napoleon syndrome so anything can happen.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
My array has 135 azimuth so in mornings it works really nice. It's the afternoon around 15.30-18.30 when there's a huge dip in production due to sun angle (see post #187). This is why I'm going to install 15,4kWp monopanels on nearby shed roof with 235 azimuth. Hopefully it'll help with afternoon/evening production.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
400bird
Solar Wizard
And here I thought I had been reading along the entire time. I missed that post entirely.
Do you have net metering or are you hurting for power when the sun lines up with the array? Sorry if you already answered this too.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
No net metering as we have spot prices here. One can choose to buy with spot or fixed prices but selling uses always spot. I have fixed price which is ~12c/kWh all included this year. For next year I need to make a new deal. Just as I'm typing this my system is backfeeding ~40kW as spot price is 30-50c/kWh. I'm hoping to make ~60e this morning before spot prices go back to normal.
New panels are meant to help with afternoon dip in production as it is very normal here to have bad weather morning and nice sunny weather afternoon or vice versa. I don't need more production (well in winter I could use much more), but I would like some every day.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
Can't see how this is even possible. Both Deyes making little over 8,5kW PV so combined ~17kW but still charging 7,13kW + 12,93kW = ~20kW to my batteries. Work mode is Zero Export to CT on both and no grid charge allowed. I have no shunt on my batts as Deye has some internal way to calculate things (P=UI). It did this at least 10min while I was trying to figure it out but probably much longer. Checked LFP rack batts individual screens and calculated that they were taking ~240A combined which is ~13kW so it has to be correct. Didn't have my clamp meter close so couldn't check actual currents. Just wondering where did that extra ~3kW charge came from??? No AC coupling so both Bluesun15Ks taking care of my loads and pushing ~7,5kW to grid so ignore right side of the screen. Have never seen this kind of behavior before although I'd love to have extra 3kW charge power out of thin air if possible.
shadowmaker
Solar Addict
May production has been phenomenal so far. 4,2MWh already so averaging almost 250kWh/day, best 300kWh/day without snow. Daily usage is down to ~100kWh so have been selling excess. On top of that spot prices have been surprisingly high while there has been some maintenance problems with nuclear plants.
Batts are full ~12 hours every day so even those shitty 30-60mA BSM included passive balancers are capable to top balance them. Progress is really slow but they do seem to work eventually.
Batts are full ~12 hours every day so even those shitty 30-60mA BSM included passive balancers are capable to top balance them. Progress is really slow but they do seem to work eventually.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Any power company limits on how much you can export? Transformer limited?
Sverige
A Brit in Sweden
It sure is sunny lately! I mean I assume you get similar weather to what we’ve had over here in Sweden. Makes up for the dire feb - apr…
Good that you’re starting to get a return on investment.
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