Need help purchasing

[Tisa Yonts]

Hi everyone,

Don’t know anything about solar power but am looking for help to make sure I get the right system for a tiny tiny house that will need to be heated through a Northern Idaho winter.

I want to buy a plug and play solar powered generator that can power as many of the following as possible for a small trailer sized tiny house: Fridge/freezer
Lights
Envi electric Heater
Fan
Water pump
Air filter
Charge phone and computer

I saw in your list bluetti -a generator Ive been considering. From what I can see it can draw 1000 watts from a 2400 watt an hour battery. I’ve also been considering the Patriot Power Generator 1800 which can handle 3,048 watts peak power. But it says it can generate up to 1500 continuous watts. So it’s all Greek to me. That’s why I’ve come here.

thanks so much?

 

[nosys70]

the problem with power rated for these devices is usually the peak power.
Big numbers looks great, but usually it hides the fact that this power won't last long.
If you plan to live in this tiny house days and nights, you will probably spend most of time in it (in winter).
so you need to size everything for 24 hours , that is a lot more that you would need for summer time, were heat and light is not really
something you need most of a long day.
you need to draw a chart with horizontal scale being time (0 to 24), vertical scale being devices you will use.
then draw a line (for example from 7:30 to 9:30 for the kitchen light, same for water pump, heater etc..)
then check the rated power of each device.
you will get an idea of peak power needed and also how long (total power)
it will also help to see when this power is need, so you can size solar panel and battery properly.
Most people starting a basic setup usually aim to a 2400W capable system, and a 6000Wh battery (for example a 24V 280Ah)
in summer , 1500w of solar panel would be enough, but you can easily triple that if you plan to use it in winter.

 

[John Frum]

Getting through a northern idaho winter will require lots of heat.
Hope you have propane, wood or some other fuel.

 

[Craig]

Hi everyone,

Don’t know anything about solar power but am looking for help to make sure I get the right system for a tiny tiny house that will need to be heated through a Northern Idaho winter.

I want to buy a plug and play solar powered generator that can power as many of the following as possible for a small trailer sized tiny house: Fridge/freezer
Lights
Envi electric Heater
Fan
Water pump
Air filter
Charge phone and computer

I saw in your list bluetti -a generator Ive been considering. From what I can see it can draw 1000 watts from a 2400 watt an hour battery. I’ve also been considering the Patriot Power Generator 1800 which can handle 3,048 watts peak power. But it says it can generate up to 1500 continuous watts. So it’s all Greek to me. That’s why I’ve come here.

thanks so much?

we really need the specs on the devices you are planning on using after that it is just math and seeing what is really important. The electric heater will be your biggest obstacle everything other than that can be done relatively easily.

Where in northern Idaho?

 

[GMB]

Envi electric Heater

I looked one model of that heater up online and said it pulls 500 watts per hour. If you're in Idaho and need that to be on 24/7 on a cold day, that equals 12,000 watt hours needed just for the heater. And you still need to run the fridge/freezer, lights, etc. Don't think these little solar generators would be the answer here without a drastic cut back in power usage and using propane for heat.

Watch this video about sizing a solar system to give you an idea of what may be needed. Also obtain a Kill-A-Watt device to determine your exact needs.

 

[snoobler]

Electric heat derived from solar/batteries is almost always a losing proposition unless you're willing to invest many thousands into a system. Get a propane or kerosene heater, and you'll save those many thousands.

A CHEAP LA battery that could handle the heat load and have a hope of longevity is going to be $5K. Solar to power that system is likely to be another $5-6K in panels and equipment.

Eliminate the heater, and you've probably eliminated 75-80% of your electric demand and be able to downsize your system by that much. Nice propane and kerosene heaters are less than $300.

 

[Craig]

Electric heat derived from solar/batteries is almost always a losing proposition unless you're willing to invest many thousands into a system. Get a propane or kerosene heater, and you'll save those many thousands.

A CHEAP LA battery that could handle the heat load and have a hope of longevity is going to be $5K. Solar to power that system is likely to be another $5-6K in panels and equipment.

Eliminate the heater, and you've probably eliminated 75-80% of your electric demand and be able to downsize your system by that much. Nice propane and kerosene heaters are less than $300.

I do agree that heating with solar and batteries is more expensive than propane or Kerosene.

I disagree about your projected cost. Figure this 16 280Ah EVE cells produce around 16kw of energy a 1000 watt heater could run for 12 hours if necessary. A well insulated Tiny home should not need that much heat. 16 EVE cells cost around $2500.00 5000 watts of panels can be had for less than 2k as well. This is a long way from the op's wish for plug and play though. But in my opinion not much more difficult.

 

[nosys70]

the problem with a 12KWh battery is before discharging it, you need to charge it.
and in winter, if you get only at best 2 hours of useful sun, it means you need to charge it in 2 hours.
6000W per hour is 250A under 24V, so:
- it means you will need to charge your battery very fast (1C), that is not good for battery.
- You will need a huge solar panel surface to generate about 8-12 Kwh, so the price of solar panel will raise drastically the bill.
- You will need a huge surface, and a tiny tiny house does not particularly offer a big roof surface. If the house is located in a forest, you will need
to cut a lot of tree to get a surface without sharding. and in winter you will get a lot of work to clean snow and ice from the panels.
And if as backup you still need to purchase a gaz heater, then i do not see the point to go solar for heating first.
Solar tubes with ultra vacuum would be better. They can still produce hot water even under 2 inches of snow.

Switzerland: Ultra-High Vacuum Collectors Heat and Cool Geneva Airport | Solarthermalworld

The roof of the Geneva International Airport has now 282 evacuated flat plate collector panels with a back-side metal reflector. These Ultra-High Vacuum (UHV) collectors will start working in winter […]

www.solarthermalworld.org

https://indico.cern.ch/event/43680/contributions/1936471/subcontributions/175655/attachments/939160/1331773/Solar_Thermal_Applications_External_Network_NOV_2008.pdf

 

[MichaelK]

Being a UofI graduate, and having lived several years in Moscow, I can already tell you it is NOT going to work. You will simply not be able to generate enough electrical power to heat yourself through the many, many below zero nights in an Idaho winter. You WILL need to burn either wood, or propane, or something to stay warm.

What will work is building a system that can supply power to your smaller appliances, up to a small refrigerator. Most likely, the frig will consume as much power as everything else combined. For a tiny house, I'm guessing you might be able to fit maybe three or four 250W grid-tie panels on it. That would be enough to charge a 250AH golf-cart bank at 24V. Because of the extreme cold, lithium might not be a good choice for you. You can get a 24V PSW inverter for about 500$.

A system like that would be able to give you the 2-3kwh of power you'd need day to day. You will also have to have a generator that can charge the batteries on cloudy days when the panels produce only 10% of rated power. At least on the dry side of the Cascades, you'll get fewer cloudy days then in the Seattle area.

 

[Craig]

Being a UofI graduate, and having lived several years in Moscow, I can already tell you it is NOT going to work. You will simply not be able to generate enough electrical power to heat yourself through the many, many below zero nights in an Idaho winter. You WILL need to burn either wood, or propane, or something to stay warm.

What will work is building a system that can supply power to your smaller appliances, up to a small refrigerator. Most likely, the frig will consume as much power as everything else combined. For a tiny house, I'm guessing you might be able to fit maybe three or four 250W grid-tie panels on it. That would be enough to charge a 250AH golf-cart bank at 24V. Because of the extreme cold, lithium might not be a good choice for you. You can get a 24V PSW inverter for about 500$.

A system like that would be able to give you the 2-3kwh of power you'd need day to day. You will also have to have a generator that can charge the batteries on cloudy days when the panels produce only 10% of rated power. At least on the dry side of the Cascades, you'll get fewer cloudy days then in the Seattle area.

I wholeheartedly disagree. My house is on the wrong side of a mountain and I still get plenty of power as long as I can keep the snow off the panels. Now granted my solar array is 3x the size of my tiny house . But saying it is NOT going to work just isn't being fair. A well insulated tiny house would not take that much energy to heat. Remember we are talking well less than 500 sq ft.

 

[MisterSandals]

Now granted my solar array is 3x the size of my tiny house .

Pictures please!

 

[MichaelK]

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Well, I think it's easy to disagree when you're not the one that going to be shivering in the dark if things go wrong. I think it's really irresponsible to advocate solar electric heating in a bitterly cold region, especially if it's the sole source of heat.

Here's what I envision happening. Suppose after series of -10F to -20F nights the lady's battery is totally exhausted, and she wakes up in the middle of the night to a house that has dropped below freezing. With lithium banks, it's my understanding that they can NOT be charged once the batteries go below 32F. So, what happens to this woman once the sun raises, and the batteries still can't be charged?

Getting back to my previous post, what I think WOULD work is a system that supplies all the power except for heat. What I would do is position the tiny house with the roof inclined to due south, and place as many panels that can fit on that south-facing roof. On the other side of the roof, she can position the chimney for a wood-stove that would be the primary source of heat. Everybody in north Idaho already heats with wood, so she will fit in with everyone else. I would also include a small propane backup heater, to keep the chill of the house on days when she's not home to stoke the stove.

With wood/propane heat, and solar electric for everything else, it's a viable plan.

 

[Craig]

Well, I think it's easy to disagree when you're not the one that going to be shivering in the dark if things go wrong. I think it's really irresponsible to advocate solar electric heating in a bitterly cold region, especially if it's the sole source of heat.

Here's what I envision happening. Suppose after series of -10F to -20F nights the lady's battery is totally exhausted, and she wakes up in the middle of the night to a house that has dropped below freezing. With lithium banks, it's my understanding that they can NOT be charged once the batteries go below 32F. So, what happens to this woman once the sun raises, and the batteries still can't be charged?

Getting back to my previous post, what I think WOULD work is a system that supplies all the power except for heat. What I would do is position the tiny house with the roof inclined to due south, and place as many panels that can fit on that south-facing roof. On the other side of the roof, she can position the chimney for a wood-stove that would be the primary source of heat. Everybody in north Idaho already heats with wood, so she will fit in with everyone else. I would also include a small propane backup heater, to keep the chill of the house on days when she's not home to stoke the stove.

With wood/propane heat, and solar electric for everything else, it's a viable plan.

I have a tiny house in northern Idaho so don't say I wont be shivering!

But don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with an additional heat source or a back up or a generator. There are also batteries that can be charged below freezing.

There is also Hightechlab who runs completely off of solar and he is near CDA

 

[Craig]

Pictures please!

This is 2.4Kw and about 250 square feet I also have 3 other sets of panels facing different directions those add up to about another 2.4Kw. But this one produces the most winter power. Yes shading is a huge issue but we muddle through somehow even if it is impossible! Remember anything can be done how much it costs is a different story. These panels cost me a whoppiing $400.00 off of Craigslist

 

[jim7fl]

When you build the tiny house, insulate the heck out of it. I would suggest that especially in Northern Idaho, but even if you are in North Florida like me, insulation is your friend, regardless of your heating and/or cooling needs.

Best Regards,
Jim