I'm curious if there's a functioning low temperature cutoff in this new Chins battery. I see what looks like a sensor going from the BMS to the the battery through the fiber board.
New Chins 100ah Lifepo4 battery teardown
- Thread starter BV2
- Start date
I reached out to Kuboka, who is selling the Chins battery on Amazon, and asked to return one of my two batteries. I obviously couldn't return the one I tore open, but I thought I would cut my loses and return the intact one. Their customer service was good and they promptly accepted the return request and sent me a prepaid UPS label. Here's the thing...the pouch cell battery was really done well inside, nice and neat and it checked out fine, with room to spare, on the capacity test. So, I may end up keeping the second one. BTW, the Zooms batteries are going up in price almost everyday. They are 80 dollars more, for the 100ah, now than at the end of January when I bought them.
HOU_Castle
Learning Everyday....
I won't be worried about the covid lock down in China. But, potential sanction against China to aid Russia.
robby
Photon Vampire
- Joined
- May 1, 2021
- Messages
- 4,218
I doubt that any further tariffs will go on goods but who knows what Putes and Zi are thinking.
just did a second discharge test on the pouch cells. This time I wasn't as nice to it. 110 to 117 amp discharge using a 1200 watt heat gun. I set the current meter to 150 amp hrs to see where it would end up. At 40 amp hrs left I shut her down. I have no concerns putting this pack into service.
I received my Chins 100ah battery on 02/25 with the below code.
It seems to have been made slightly before Will_Culp's battery. Because of this post, I also contacted Chins through Amazon and the response I got is below.
Dear Customer,
thank you for your mail.
SKU: CHINS-12100-211101-506 is a prismatic cell， please rest assured.
best regards.
I charged the battery up after receiving and put in right into my system (I have a Victron BMV) and let it run. I manually shut off my inverter after it gave me 102ah, so the capacity is there.
Without opening it I don't know what it really is but have to believe its prismatic based on their response and it seems to produce so I will be keeping it.
A concern I do have is if I want to series together a few of these for 24V or 48V and happen to have one battery being a pouch and another being a prismatic cell?????
It seems to have been made slightly before Will_Culp's battery. Because of this post, I also contacted Chins through Amazon and the response I got is below.
Dear Customer,
thank you for your mail.
SKU: CHINS-12100-211101-506 is a prismatic cell， please rest assured.
best regards.
I charged the battery up after receiving and put in right into my system (I have a Victron BMV) and let it run. I manually shut off my inverter after it gave me 102ah, so the capacity is there.
Without opening it I don't know what it really is but have to believe its prismatic based on their response and it seems to produce so I will be keeping it.
A concern I do have is if I want to series together a few of these for 24V or 48V and happen to have one battery being a pouch and another being a prismatic cell?????
Mr-Sandman
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 351
I have no comment on soft pouch vs prismatic vs cylinder cells, I do have a comment related to deception and good business practices.
These battery companies/resellers need to do a better job in their advertising on what exactly they are selling. I know, we are talking about China here, but it's very deceptive with them being vague in all of their sells literature and ads.
They need to state clearly type of cells used to make battery "Prismatic, pouch, cylinder", Type of BMS and it's capabilities exactly. Very clear on specs and features.
I give THIS company credit for having good customer service and offering a partial/full refund. But switching the entire makeup of the battery without telling customers up front is a bit deceptive. Something that 9 times out of 10 is going to bite them in this circle of people. Add to the fact that people like Will do reviews on these, then they entirely switch the cells out and continue to sell with no notice is almost bait and switch. I for one like knowing what I'm buying.
These battery companies/resellers need to do a better job in their advertising on what exactly they are selling. I know, we are talking about China here, but it's very deceptive with them being vague in all of their sells literature and ads.
They need to state clearly type of cells used to make battery "Prismatic, pouch, cylinder", Type of BMS and it's capabilities exactly. Very clear on specs and features.
I give THIS company credit for having good customer service and offering a partial/full refund. But switching the entire makeup of the battery without telling customers up front is a bit deceptive. Something that 9 times out of 10 is going to bite them in this circle of people. Add to the fact that people like Will do reviews on these, then they entirely switch the cells out and continue to sell with no notice is almost bait and switch. I for one like knowing what I'm buying.
Last edited:
RCinFLA
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2020
- Messages
- 3,566
The thin wall metal container cells I have seen weld seal the top so metal container is the airtight seal for the cell. They leave the cell pouch wrap open at the top so any venting will escape into the sealed metal container.
This causes the metal container sides to bulge when bloated with the pouch remaining tightly wrapped. It also allows all the layers' foil to easily come through the open pouch wrap end and are spot welded to the terminal lug on top of battery directly.
On the true individually sealed pouch cells the top of pouch is sealed. There must be a single tab to multi-foil layers spot weld interface before the tab is brought through the outer pouch seal.
As to what is better or worse is debatable. On the metal container cells the plastic gromets for cell terminals are the weak point for pressured gas escape.
My opinion is the plastic pouch heat seal around the tabs on the sealed pouch versions are probably weaker than the metal can version gromet seal yielding less expandable volume if cell bloating occurs. In the metal container version, if bottom of metal container is allowed to corrode through from sitting on a corrosive salt chemical than the cell seal is broken.
I have worked in China off and on for many years and quality culture is not a high priority in most operations. Keeping production going is the prime directive so substitutions are sometimes recklessly made.
This causes the metal container sides to bulge when bloated with the pouch remaining tightly wrapped. It also allows all the layers' foil to easily come through the open pouch wrap end and are spot welded to the terminal lug on top of battery directly.
On the true individually sealed pouch cells the top of pouch is sealed. There must be a single tab to multi-foil layers spot weld interface before the tab is brought through the outer pouch seal.
As to what is better or worse is debatable. On the metal container cells the plastic gromets for cell terminals are the weak point for pressured gas escape.
My opinion is the plastic pouch heat seal around the tabs on the sealed pouch versions are probably weaker than the metal can version gromet seal yielding less expandable volume if cell bloating occurs. In the metal container version, if bottom of metal container is allowed to corrode through from sitting on a corrosive salt chemical than the cell seal is broken.
I have worked in China off and on for many years and quality culture is not a high priority in most operations. Keeping production going is the prime directive so substitutions are sometimes recklessly made.
AE4KR
Ham Radio Tinkerer
How about a bit of perspective. This is like posters on a car mechanics forum calling out Ford for failing to disclose the metallurgical composition of its crankshaft main bearings on the 2.0L EcoBoost engine before purchase, or getting mad if they adjust it without telling buyers.
We're geeking out here by the standards of most people. Most buyers of this thing will be using it as a drop-in for their RV, and never knew what a "prismatic cell" was in the first place. If it makes advertised capacity and lasts longer than the warranty, the specs offered satisfy 99% of the market. The fact the company actually responds to this question is above-and-beyond compared to most industries.
It appears the pouch-cell version (of which I just acquired one) is approximately two pounds lighter than the prismatic version, roughly 23.5 vs. 25.4. The outside shipping box for mine was labeled "25 pounds" including box and packaging. So the prismatics are probably labeled "27 pounds." If receiving a pouch-cell version is a deal-breaker, you can know it, and send it back before opening the box.
Mr-Sandman
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 351
No, I'd say it's closer to selling a car with an entirely different engine under the hood, without changing their advertising or sticker on the windshield. It might make the same horsepower, but totally different build, reliability could be different, etc.... No big deal to me, I didn't buy any of them, so they didn't sucker me.
eabyrd
Solar Enthusiast
Did they advertise prismatic cells?
eabyrd
Solar Enthusiast
Strong word, did they advertise prismatic cells? If so then yes, deception but if they didn’t then no
Mr-Sandman
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 351
I don't know, I didn't say false advertising, I stated they need to disclose the type of cells they are selling, among other things, like BMS, it's capabilities clearly, etc..
Mr-Sandman
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 351
Deceptive in the fact a good number of their sells and customer bought based on reviews they have watched, such as Will's showing the build quality with the prismatic cells. Then they order theirs and get something totally different. If they would disclose the cells being used in their advertising, this wouldn't be being talked about. Hell they may be better, I don't have a dog in this fight, enjoy your battery's. .
AE4KR
Ham Radio Tinkerer
I don't think they're analogous. I'm not aware that the company ever advertised it, or put it on a label. Again, this is a bunch of deep hobbyists discovering changes in a product that won't matter to most buyers, and was never claimed or promoted by the company. A review by Will does not lock a manufacturer into a design. Perhaps Will needs a disclaimer like the ones many manufacturers employ:
The manufacturer reserves the right to update the product at any time without prior notice.
But to touch again on cars, the thing you're upset about reminds me of General Motors in the 1970s, when they started putting Chevrolet engines under the hoods of Buicks, and leaving them labeled "Buick." That, I could see. So did the courts. GM lost a class-action suit from buyers who protested that the 350 cubic-inch Buick V8 got better EPA ratings than the 350 cubic-inch Chevy V8.
In this case, there's no history yet to suggest the cells they're now using will perform any worse or fail any sooner than the prismatics, making this a more emotional issue than an objective one. Time will tell.
eabyrd
Solar Enthusiast
Those reviews and tear downs should not lock down the manufacturer. i bought a Jakiper battery after such a review, and while I am disappointed in the discrepancies from what Will‘s review suggested and the reality that isn’t really Jakiper’s fault
Mr-Sandman
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2021
- Messages
- 351
Oh I have no expectation of a product being "locked" down. Improvements, changes in manufacturing techniques, ways to make it cheaper, and supply chain issues now more than ever can cause changes to products.
I'd just like to know what I'm buying. Really we are just buying plastic boxes and hoping they contain what we think they should. The most we can do is capacity test them to verify they at least meet the capacity they advertise. They are all sealed up and you have to destroy them in most cases to actually see what you got.
AE4KR
Ham Radio Tinkerer
True, but at least in this case, when customers ask what's in them, the manufacturer tells us, and even provides advice on what to order if you have to have prismatics. That level of candor is pretty rare, especially from China.
Looking at your pictures above, it looks like you were able to remove the top off of at least one white Zooms battery case without cutting it (like we've all seen Will do many times). Are you typically able to remove the top by prying if you aren't going for dramatic YouTube teardown effects? I have a couple Zooms 50Ah batteries I'm considering breaking open to try to rebuild into a "solar generator" style build in a harbor freight Apache brand box. Any tips on how to open these in a save and not destructive way, would be greatly appreciated.
Similar threads
