New Lux Power LXP-LB-US 12k / GSL-H-12KLV-US with 200A AC Passthrough Current (US Market)

[elusivesd]

@elusivesd : Can you share the custom code for emulating the SDM630? Really keen on making something like this work! Even just a github link would be awesome!

I'll see if I can write up something this weekend, the code is still sitting on my old laptop (and is embarrassingly bad!)

Background: Originally needed a solution to control backfeed on a GTIL2 inverter without the use of the original CT clamps. If unfamiliar, the GTIL2 functions in a closed loop - will "ramp up" power output when input is pulled low, and "ramp down" power output when pulled high (from memory, don't shoot me if reversed). Steady power output effectively looks like a 50% PWM duty cycle.

Hardware: CircuitSetup single/split phase energy meter => ESP32 (Arduino sketch) => GPIO pulsing pseudo-pwm to GTIL2 inverter input

GTIL2 software logic:
Loop:
- Read power from ADC
- If value > threshold (~100W), set GPIO output pin to RAMP_UP
- if value < threshold, set GPIO output pin to RAMP_DOWN (excess backfeed, reduce power)

Eventually, I outgrew this setup and moved on to the LXP inverter. Of course, metering options are different - either by using CT clamps, or Eastron SDM meter over RS485.

Hardware modified: CircuitSetup => ESP32 => RS485 => LXP
LXP software logic:
Loop:
- Read power from ADC
- Set global vars (Total Watts, Volts A, Amps A, Volts B, Amps B, etc..)
- Convert values to register compatible format, set registers (emulating Eastron SDM)
- If/when LXP requests register data for information, latest info will be retrieved

Each loop will complete within about 15ms (~1 AC cycle), limited by the ADC and LXP polling rate. The data itself is near real-time.

There's more to it, but this is a high level overview of functionality. Let me know if you have any questions!

 

[edgecrusher]

I'll see if I can write up something this weekend, the code is still sitting on my old laptop (and is embarrassingly bad!)

Background: Originally needed a solution to control backfeed on a GTIL2 inverter without the use of the original CT clamps. If unfamiliar, the GTIL2 functions in a closed loop - will "ramp up" power output when input is pulled low, and "ramp down" power output when pulled high (from memory, don't shoot me if reversed). Steady power output effectively looks like a 50% PWM duty cycle.

Hardware: CircuitSetup single/split phase energy meter => ESP32 (Arduino sketch) => GPIO pulsing pseudo-pwm to GTIL2 inverter input

GTIL2 software logic:
Loop:
- Read power from ADC
- If value > threshold (~100W), set GPIO output pin to RAMP_UP
- if value < threshold, set GPIO output pin to RAMP_DOWN (excess backfeed, reduce power)

Eventually, I outgrew this setup and moved on to the LXP inverter. Of course, metering options are different - either by using CT clamps, or Eastron SDM meter over RS485.

Hardware modified: CircuitSetup => ESP32 => RS485 => LXP
LXP software logic:
Loop:
- Read power from ADC
- Set global vars (Total Watts, Volts A, Amps A, Volts B, Amps B, etc..)
- Convert values to register compatible format, set registers (emulating Eastron SDM)
- If/when LXP requests register data for information, latest info will be retrieved

Each loop will complete within about 15ms (~1 AC cycle), limited by the ADC and LXP polling rate. The data itself is near real-time.

There's more to it, but this is a high level overview of functionality. Let me know if you have any questions!

Awesome! If you can share portions of the ESP32 code, I'm going to do something very similiar. Only potential hiccup/modification is that I might try to go: CircuitSetup ==> ESP32 (at Mains), parallel post to emoncms/HA ==> MQTT ==> ESP32 (in powershed) ==> LXP

If the MQTT +Wifi isn't fast enough (even if I offset 500W or something so that I don't ever backfeed), I might do a longer RS485 network (wired).

I think I found the right register mapping for SDM, but would appreciate knowing what the minimum required registers are, and that I'm populating the right ones. I haven't ordered my LUX yet, so bench testing/planning are in order.

Thank you!

 

[Sticky1]

I figured I would post a diagram of the system i am starting to install....
How does it look? The main question....Can i do two seperate grounds?

 

[Hedges]

As in one ground network for PV array, one ground network for everything else?

You can, and may be required, to have a ground rod for the array.

You need to have a wire bonding frames of PV array to frames of electrical equipment in the house, where frame ground bonds to AC neutral and goes to a ground rod.

There may be some problems the extra ground rod can cause, such as a nearby lightning strike creating a large voltage difference across the earth and current flowing through the ground wire back to house. Hopefully a very unlikely event.

If PV frames do not have ground wire bonding them back to everything else, that often is found to carry 60VAC at low current, making it a shock hazard. This varies by inverter, but many people here have reported it. Also, a fault in the array could make the frames a high voltage DC hazard.

 

[pvgirl]

I figured I would post a diagram of the system i am starting to install....
How does it look? The main question....Can i do two seperate grounds?

Two separate grounds are not recommended or required. No matter what you will need to run an grounding conductor, bonding the panels and mounts, with your pv wires, and connect to the ground bar at the inverter.

I would recommend only using listed disconnects, breakers, surge protectors, and enclosures for your PV circuits. IMO, and midnite solar, have listed products. For a single string no over current protection, or disconnect are required at the panels or on the roof. Many inverters have a built in PV DC disconnect, and a separate disconnect at the inverter would not be required.

Grid input disconnect doesn't need to be fused and class t fuses aren't required if you want to use them, Grid input disconnect will not provide rapid shutdown on a battery inverter. Automatic transfer switch should be listed. If generator has built in breaker fuses not required in disconnect, class t not required if used.

RSD switch must be connected to tigo CCA for shutdown of roof mounted panels.

 

[Hedges]

RSD switch must be connected to tigo CCA for shutdown of roof mounted panels.

What does Tigo CCA have to do with rapid shutdown?

Tigo Cloud Connect Advanced (CCA)

One of the smallest solar data loggers on the planet, Tigo's Cloud Connect Advanced (CCA) enables valuable insight into module level performance data. It is the hub for data from Tigo's O, S and M products and customers can also connect their inverters, batteries, building meters, and more...

www.tigoenergy.com

Does Luxpower inverter provide keep-alive for Tigo RSD? I think it is done that way with SolArk. [Edit, I think 12V out to external keep-alive]

How about discharge of input capacitors? Turning off Tigo RSD boxes stops supply of voltage, but capacitor bank might remain higher voltage than allowed for some minutes. I may have to address this if I move panels to roof for some older grid-tie inverters - I'll use separate Tigo keep-alive transmitter.

 

[pvgirl]

What does Tigo CCA have to do with rapid shutdown?

Tigo Cloud Connect Advanced (CCA)

One of the smallest solar data loggers on the planet, Tigo's Cloud Connect Advanced (CCA) enables valuable insight into module level performance data. It is the hub for data from Tigo's O, S and M products and customers can also connect their inverters, batteries, building meters, and more...

www.tigoenergy.com

Does Luxpower inverter provide keep-alive for Tigo RSD? I think it is done that way with SolArk.

How about discharge of input capacitors? Turning off Tigo RSD boxes stops supply of voltage, but capacitor bank might remain higher voltage than allowed for some minutes. I may have to address this if I move panels to roof for some older grid-tie inverters - I'll use separate Tigo keep-alive transmitter.

The Tigo optimizes, and other modules that are used with the CCA, do not use the powerline keep alive signal for rapid shutdown, they only communicate wirelessly, and they receive the keep alive signal from the CCA, via TAP over RF. So when using tigo optimizers and the CCA, power must be removed from the CCA to initiate rapid shutdown.

 

[Hedges]

But what about discharge of PV input capacitors?
Does RSD switch also go to LuxPower?

 

[Quattrohead]

But what about discharge of PV input capacitors?
Does RSD switch also go to LuxPower?

Page 56-58 of the manual -
In case of emergency, press the rapid shutdown
button to cut off the RSD power supply, in turn
cutting the inverter’s AC Output along with
dropping the PV Conductors voltage to <30V in 30 seconds.
The inverter has it's own RSD button and you can connect an external one too.
Also the PowerPro batteries have a connection to add an RSD button and the inverter/batteries communicate this information and will trip each other off when signaled to do so.

 

[pvgirl]

But what about discharge of PV input capacitors?
Does RSD switch also go to LuxPower?

Yes rapid shutdown should go to the LuxPower as well, this can be a separate contact on the shutdown switch, although documentation on this seems very limited for this inverter, and may vary by variant. If the CCA is powered by the inverter output shutting down the inverter via RSD should shut power output off and when the CCA loses power the modules on the panels will go into rapid shutdown as well. Some documentation cliams the aux contact on the CCA can also be used to initiate RSD on the panels, this can be used if the CCA is powered from battery, or other sources.

 

[Quattrohead]

Does Luxpower inverter provide keep-alive for Tigo RSD? I think it is done that way with SolArk. [Edit, I think 12V out to external keep-alive]

As I understand it, the inverter provides power to a built in Sunspec transmitter module that sends a basic heartbeat to any RSD panel module, via the PV wires.
Then also, the Tigo CCA provides advanced monitoring and data collection as provided by Tigo TS4 modules MLPE (Module Level Power Electronics) via wireless.

 

[Sticky1]

Two separate grounds are not recommended or required. No matter what you will need to run an grounding conductor, bonding the panels and mounts, with your pv wires, and connect to the ground bar at the inverter.

I would recommend only using listed disconnects, breakers, surge protectors, and enclosures for your PV circuits. IMO, and midnite solar, have listed products. For a single string no over current protection, or disconnect are required at the panels or on the roof. Many inverters have a built in PV DC disconnect, and a separate disconnect at the inverter would not be required.

Grid input disconnect doesn't need to be fused and class t fuses aren't required if you want to use them, Grid input disconnect will not provide rapid shutdown on a battery inverter. Automatic transfer switch should be listed. If generator has built in breaker fuses not required in disconnect, class t not required if used.

RSD switch must be connected to tigo CCA for shutdown of roof mounted panels.

I really don't like the idea of a lightning strike that hits the array going thru all the devices (outside and inside) to ground....
I figured since the construction of the panels are electrically (separated ?) from the cells themselves I figured I could run a separate ground for the panels, rails, tigos, surge protector... If not a good idea; then I will bring the ground wire from the roof to the inverter.

 

[pvgirl]

I really don't like the idea of a lightning strike that hits the array going thru all the devices (outside and inside) to ground....
I figured since the construction of the panels are electrically (separated ?) from the cells themselves I figured I could run a separate ground for the panels, rails, tigos, surge protector... If not a good idea; then I will bring the ground wire from the roof to the inverter.

If you want protection from a direct lightning strike you are going to want an actual lightning protection system.

 

[pvgirl]

As I understand it, the inverter provides power to a built in Sunspec transmitter module that sends a basic heartbeat to any RSD panel module, via the PV wires.
Then also, the Tigo CCA provides advanced monitoring and data collection as provided by Tigo TS4 modules MLPE (Module Level Power Electronics) via wireless.

The Tigo TS4-A-O, TS4-A-S, TS4-A-M modules don't use power line communications, so when these modules are used, the wireless communication is both monitoring and keep alive for RSD.

 

[Hedges]

I really don't like the idea of a lightning strike that hits the array going thru all the devices (outside and inside) to ground....
I figured since the construction of the panels are electrically (separated ?) from the cells themselves I figured I could run a separate ground for the panels, rails, tigos, surge protector... If not a good idea; then I will bring the ground wire from the roof to the inverter.

Panels on the roof?

In that case, how about running a wire from PV frames down outside the house to existing ground rod. That way any lightning currents reach the earth, don't have to travel through rest of system to reach earth.

Wire from inverter or SCC also to the ground rod so it has continuity to PV panel frames, and AC electrical system also connects there.
Where AC wires go from electrical system to inverter there is also a ground wire. Yes, a loop; I don't care.
I said separate ground wire from inverter to ground rod because I don't want AC ground wires to be the only path available for PV DC if it has a fault.

If you like, put a lightning rod higher than the array, not shading it, and wire that to a separate ground rod.

 

[Quattrohead]

The Tigo TS4-A-O, TS4-A-S, TS4-A-M modules don't use power line communications, so when these modules are used, the wireless communication is both monitoring and keep alive for RSD.

So the TS4-A-2F does use power line comms but has no monotoring ? I am having the hardest time figuring out Tigo stuff, it seems like they are deliberately not telling you the whole story in the pursuit of maximum up sell.

"The TS4-A-2F complies with NEC 2017, 2020 & 2023 690.12 Rapid Shutdown specifications when installed with the Tigo RSS Transmitter or an inverter with built-in Tigo certified transmitter."

 

[pvgirl]

So the TS4-A-2F does use power line comms but has no monotoring ? I am having the hardest time figuring out Tigo stuff, it seems like they are deliberately not telling you the whole story in the pursuit of maximum up sell.

"The TS4-A-2F complies with NEC 2017, 2020 & 2023 690.12 Rapid Shutdown specifications when installed with the Tigo RSS Transmitter or an inverter with built-in Tigo certified transmitter."

Yes the TS4-A-2F and TS4-A-F are powerline communications, with a Tigo RSS transmitter. But have no monitoring, or optimization.

 

[Quattrohead]

Yes the TS4-A-2F and TS4-A-F are powerline communications, with a Tigo RSS transmitter. But have no monitoring, or optimization.

Ok I think I finally understand them. Thank you.

 

[llaforest]

I can get only 16.4kW out of my 20kW battery pack is that normal?

I have the LuxPower18K with two GSL 10kW power wall. When I check the data, I can see the pDischarge@16.4 and the pInverter@15.8. This corresponds to the 95% efficiency difference but it's far from the promised 20kW. Is that normal to see that?
On the battery spec, it says 46-56V but it will stop discharging around 50V and stop charging around 54V. I have tried both SoC and Voltage mode and I get fairly same result.

I am fairly new to this and just want to make sure the batteries deliver what they are supposed to.

 

[Quattrohead]

This is a good thing as you are not flogging the living daylights out of your batteries by taking them down to zero and up to 100%.

 

[llaforest]

This is a good thing as you are not flogging the living daylights out of your batteries by taking them down to zero and up to 100%.

Yeah I don't intend to do that but I wanted to verify what they can give if needed

 

[llaforest]

I guess the question is with other battery brands, when it states 20kW, what is the maximum pDischarge you guys are seeing on the inverter?

 

[Sticky1]

Finally getting things together. All going into a lux 12k. 1st of 3 strings of 10 410watts each

 

[koppted]

Finally getting things together. All going into a lux 12k. 1st of 3 strings of 10 410watts each

What are you using for lcd voltage monitoring readout of the strings, or does that come with the combiner box you bought?

 

[Sticky1]

Many many hours of searching on the Internet to try and find items that will work when I get back to the office I’ll put another post up with the model number and where you can get them