matsonburger
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2021
- Messages
- 9
I am a new member from Inyo County, California.
This will be a long entry because I am not sure if or how to break it up into smaller distinct threads.
I have been researching topics on this forum for over nearly a year. This is a fantastic resource!!
I have had my system up and running for over two months now. This is on a grid tied single family home.
Our actual power bill is quite low, perhaps $30/ month. We have many propane appliances. I would project a payback period of about 30 years given current usage...hence this project was perhaps more driven by other concerns.
I got started in this process because I did not want to be without power for any length of time, with refrigeration being my primary concern.
What I now tell folks is that a gas (or simpler propane) generator is the cheapest way to go. However, if one is not home to turn on a generator the situation becomes more complex. Some sort of rechargeable battery, with or without solar, seems the next best thing. For example a Bluetti solar power bank.
Such products seem to be perfect in many applications, but are certainly limited in capacity.
If greater capacity and flexibility are attractive features, then full fledged systems with panels, charge controllers, inverters and batteries seem the way to go. I chose to follow that path.
How big of a system to build is the first question. I purchased a Euphoria Energy device first, to accurately measure my usage. This is my first endorsement...what a fantastic device. Real time usage and over time graphs, all available remotely by wifi apps. I took a look at the Sense and was impressed with the easy of installation and the number of folks who purchased this. However I just would not tolerate the machine learning algorithms that never seemed to work quite right. Installation was more tedious and there is a limitation to the number of circuits that can be measured. Your circuit panel suddenly gets very messy...so just put the cover back on and leave it be!
So while refrigeration may be the most essential thing to have back up power for, added capacity is always attractive, so, as many of you have experienced, the motivation to build larger and larger systems increases. And on top of that, there is that allure to charge an electric vehicle (which should reduce the payback period).
That is when the more serious research period began with regard to panels, racking, wiring, inverters, charge controllers, batteries, and critical load panels.
I finally settled on a Sol-Ark 12. I was initially considering putting together separate components as this might facilitate future repairs or component replacement. Schneider has a lot of components which work together but the simplicity and compactness of the Sol-Ark won me over. I was lucky to have enough of a budget to afford one. I liked the UL certifications, rapid shut down feature, and so on.
Having a clean and tidy installation was also important to me, being something of a veteran of mechanical rooms. Certain YouTube videos of messy installations really turn me off.
I received the Sol-Ark first of all components. I mounted it in the corner of an unheated but attached “green house room” which was best for access and to protect any batteries from outdoor air temperatures. BTW, this room never gets below 45 degrees F. I installed 6 inch raceways beside and below the inverter. This allowed for wiring from my main panel (#4-3 with ground romex) on the other side of the house, and a location for a critical loads panel and a transfer switch.
I put in a simple two pole 100 amp transfer switch.
For a critical loads panel, I installed a simple 120 amp subpanel to handle critical loads and future expansion.
I had been aware of other critical load panels from Reliance or Connecticut Electric. Having each circuit independently switched between grid and solar seemed really nice, little amp meters seemed pretty cool. Nevertheless, I decided a single large load panel would be better. I could have as many circuits as I wished and not be limited to 20 or 30 amps (at 240 volts). The lack of independent circuit switching concerned me at first, but found that it was not really necessary. One might think it would be nice to put some items on the grid and others not. However, with a hybrid inverter that has AC pass through, this is unnecessary (in my case without any large loads...yet). When in fact the grid goes down, it is simply a matter of turning off individual loads if solar or battery power were insufficient.
A whole panel transfer switch is vital still, just in case the inverter fails.
The solar panels arrived next.
Choosing PV panels was quite the headache. So many choices, watts per dollar is one metric, but even the most cost effective panel can cost a lot to ship. I ended up calling local solar contractors to see if they had any inventory I could purchase from them. All but one said no. I agreed to purchase REC panels from one contractor. The irony of the choice is that when the panels got delivered, they came on a truck from Western Nevada Supply Company from Reno Nevada. What?, what! So ironic, I have had an account with this company for over 30 years. I had no idea they carried solar panels! Needless to say, delivery was free. Furthermore, they carried snap-n-rack rails and hardware for the mounting, so I ordered those independently.
Panel mounting is another aspect that I had to consider. My roof faces due east with a 10 degree slope. This is not ideal. I pictured racking systems to get to the optimal tilt. Well, it turns out tilt racking hardware can be very expensive and can make the panel array susceptible to wind damage. More research revealed that panels are so cheap that it makes more sense to just add panels flat on the roof than to build racks or have a ground mounted array. What made it even better was using the government NREL website to calculate output from an array given location, tilt, and azimuth. https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php
I settled on 8 325 watt panels for a maximum output of 2600 watts (or 2.6 KW).
More research revealed the need for rapid shutdown of panels and inverter to meet code (to protect first responders, etc.) I chose the Tigo Fire Safety TS4-A-2F rapid shut down devices with an RSS transmitter. Optimizers might have been better but I have no real shading issues.
Rails were installed followed by panels. The Snap-n-rack ultra rail really was nice to use. One quibble I have that I have not seen addressed is how anyone manages to get all the panel wiring tucked up to the bottoms of the panels or into the rails with only inches of working room. I need to see a you tube video please!
Batteries were the last thing to consider. I found the 48 volt Gyll batteries one of the better options. Yeah, I saw the David Poz video and fell for it. I realized later they have no UL listing or a long track record, and this may be a problem for me in the future. As it is, this system does not have a permit. I was afraid of all the hoops I would need to jump through, like roof engineering, rail engineering, and so on. So my system is grid tied with no net metering (no sell back to the grid). I am doing things more or less by the book but do not have a strong compulsion to sell back to the grid, for some credit of some kind.
I cannot imagine anything better than some sort of racking batteries in a clean server rack. I had ordered just 3 of the gyll batteries and a 3 space rack. It took a while but I finally received 3 batteries and a 6 space rack. I am glad for the extra space for future batteries. The best thing about the 6 level rack is that it sits perfectly to mesh with my horizontal 6 inch raceway. That means no exposed wiring, which is something that really bugged me about a great number of installations I have seen pictures of. Those big cables running from battery to inverter seem like real hazard if not enclosed.
So far, the system has worked almost flawlessly. Sol-Ark provides software to remotely monitor activity and this is fantastic. I can show off how my system is working from any location. Was I disturbed about a putative connection to a server in China? Yes, I was at first. Now I calmed down. Should I be worried? I really cannot answer that question.
Functionally, I have about 15KWH worth of storage. This allows for running just about everything in the house, with the swamp cooler in the summer sometimes running 24/7. We have AC as well but seldom use it (part of a roof mounted package unit with heating and AC). We could conceivably turn of grid power entirely but have not. I do not mind some redundancy in power delivery.
Without net metering and loads limited to home usage, the system frequently puts out less energy than is possible. So I am now considering an electric water heater and perhaps an electric range. The electric car or truck or both should arrive within the year. I feel the system is robust enough for a lot of expansion.
With the system up and running, I may inquire with the local building department and the local electrical utility what is required to allow for net metering.
This will be a long entry because I am not sure if or how to break it up into smaller distinct threads.
I have been researching topics on this forum for over nearly a year. This is a fantastic resource!!
I have had my system up and running for over two months now. This is on a grid tied single family home.
Our actual power bill is quite low, perhaps $30/ month. We have many propane appliances. I would project a payback period of about 30 years given current usage...hence this project was perhaps more driven by other concerns.
I got started in this process because I did not want to be without power for any length of time, with refrigeration being my primary concern.
What I now tell folks is that a gas (or simpler propane) generator is the cheapest way to go. However, if one is not home to turn on a generator the situation becomes more complex. Some sort of rechargeable battery, with or without solar, seems the next best thing. For example a Bluetti solar power bank.
Such products seem to be perfect in many applications, but are certainly limited in capacity.
If greater capacity and flexibility are attractive features, then full fledged systems with panels, charge controllers, inverters and batteries seem the way to go. I chose to follow that path.
How big of a system to build is the first question. I purchased a Euphoria Energy device first, to accurately measure my usage. This is my first endorsement...what a fantastic device. Real time usage and over time graphs, all available remotely by wifi apps. I took a look at the Sense and was impressed with the easy of installation and the number of folks who purchased this. However I just would not tolerate the machine learning algorithms that never seemed to work quite right. Installation was more tedious and there is a limitation to the number of circuits that can be measured. Your circuit panel suddenly gets very messy...so just put the cover back on and leave it be!
So while refrigeration may be the most essential thing to have back up power for, added capacity is always attractive, so, as many of you have experienced, the motivation to build larger and larger systems increases. And on top of that, there is that allure to charge an electric vehicle (which should reduce the payback period).
That is when the more serious research period began with regard to panels, racking, wiring, inverters, charge controllers, batteries, and critical load panels.
I finally settled on a Sol-Ark 12. I was initially considering putting together separate components as this might facilitate future repairs or component replacement. Schneider has a lot of components which work together but the simplicity and compactness of the Sol-Ark won me over. I was lucky to have enough of a budget to afford one. I liked the UL certifications, rapid shut down feature, and so on.
Having a clean and tidy installation was also important to me, being something of a veteran of mechanical rooms. Certain YouTube videos of messy installations really turn me off.
I received the Sol-Ark first of all components. I mounted it in the corner of an unheated but attached “green house room” which was best for access and to protect any batteries from outdoor air temperatures. BTW, this room never gets below 45 degrees F. I installed 6 inch raceways beside and below the inverter. This allowed for wiring from my main panel (#4-3 with ground romex) on the other side of the house, and a location for a critical loads panel and a transfer switch.
I put in a simple two pole 100 amp transfer switch.
For a critical loads panel, I installed a simple 120 amp subpanel to handle critical loads and future expansion.
I had been aware of other critical load panels from Reliance or Connecticut Electric. Having each circuit independently switched between grid and solar seemed really nice, little amp meters seemed pretty cool. Nevertheless, I decided a single large load panel would be better. I could have as many circuits as I wished and not be limited to 20 or 30 amps (at 240 volts). The lack of independent circuit switching concerned me at first, but found that it was not really necessary. One might think it would be nice to put some items on the grid and others not. However, with a hybrid inverter that has AC pass through, this is unnecessary (in my case without any large loads...yet). When in fact the grid goes down, it is simply a matter of turning off individual loads if solar or battery power were insufficient.
A whole panel transfer switch is vital still, just in case the inverter fails.
The solar panels arrived next.
Choosing PV panels was quite the headache. So many choices, watts per dollar is one metric, but even the most cost effective panel can cost a lot to ship. I ended up calling local solar contractors to see if they had any inventory I could purchase from them. All but one said no. I agreed to purchase REC panels from one contractor. The irony of the choice is that when the panels got delivered, they came on a truck from Western Nevada Supply Company from Reno Nevada. What?, what! So ironic, I have had an account with this company for over 30 years. I had no idea they carried solar panels! Needless to say, delivery was free. Furthermore, they carried snap-n-rack rails and hardware for the mounting, so I ordered those independently.
Panel mounting is another aspect that I had to consider. My roof faces due east with a 10 degree slope. This is not ideal. I pictured racking systems to get to the optimal tilt. Well, it turns out tilt racking hardware can be very expensive and can make the panel array susceptible to wind damage. More research revealed that panels are so cheap that it makes more sense to just add panels flat on the roof than to build racks or have a ground mounted array. What made it even better was using the government NREL website to calculate output from an array given location, tilt, and azimuth. https://pvwatts.nrel.gov/pvwatts.php
I settled on 8 325 watt panels for a maximum output of 2600 watts (or 2.6 KW).
More research revealed the need for rapid shutdown of panels and inverter to meet code (to protect first responders, etc.) I chose the Tigo Fire Safety TS4-A-2F rapid shut down devices with an RSS transmitter. Optimizers might have been better but I have no real shading issues.
Rails were installed followed by panels. The Snap-n-rack ultra rail really was nice to use. One quibble I have that I have not seen addressed is how anyone manages to get all the panel wiring tucked up to the bottoms of the panels or into the rails with only inches of working room. I need to see a you tube video please!
Batteries were the last thing to consider. I found the 48 volt Gyll batteries one of the better options. Yeah, I saw the David Poz video and fell for it. I realized later they have no UL listing or a long track record, and this may be a problem for me in the future. As it is, this system does not have a permit. I was afraid of all the hoops I would need to jump through, like roof engineering, rail engineering, and so on. So my system is grid tied with no net metering (no sell back to the grid). I am doing things more or less by the book but do not have a strong compulsion to sell back to the grid, for some credit of some kind.
I cannot imagine anything better than some sort of racking batteries in a clean server rack. I had ordered just 3 of the gyll batteries and a 3 space rack. It took a while but I finally received 3 batteries and a 6 space rack. I am glad for the extra space for future batteries. The best thing about the 6 level rack is that it sits perfectly to mesh with my horizontal 6 inch raceway. That means no exposed wiring, which is something that really bugged me about a great number of installations I have seen pictures of. Those big cables running from battery to inverter seem like real hazard if not enclosed.
So far, the system has worked almost flawlessly. Sol-Ark provides software to remotely monitor activity and this is fantastic. I can show off how my system is working from any location. Was I disturbed about a putative connection to a server in China? Yes, I was at first. Now I calmed down. Should I be worried? I really cannot answer that question.
Functionally, I have about 15KWH worth of storage. This allows for running just about everything in the house, with the swamp cooler in the summer sometimes running 24/7. We have AC as well but seldom use it (part of a roof mounted package unit with heating and AC). We could conceivably turn of grid power entirely but have not. I do not mind some redundancy in power delivery.
Without net metering and loads limited to home usage, the system frequently puts out less energy than is possible. So I am now considering an electric water heater and perhaps an electric range. The electric car or truck or both should arrive within the year. I feel the system is robust enough for a lot of expansion.
With the system up and running, I may inquire with the local building department and the local electrical utility what is required to allow for net metering.
