New system - solark 15 kpv, eg4 18kpv

[DIYsolarKY]

Been reading on the forum for some time.

Planning a scary expensive solar project.

Family uses about 100 kW a day on average.
We don't have a backup generator. But that is one of our priorities is having backup power. We lose power regularly with fall, winter, spring storms.

I live in north western Kentucky. PVWatts uses Evansville, IN for my location which is about 1 hr away.

House is 1 year old, way too big, 5 girls at home, not counting wife. Lots of current and future power needs.

My local utility offers 1:1 net metering.

I am probably too busy to consider this as a DIY project. That is a lot of panels even though I don't shy away from most home projects.

I have a few local solar installers offering me different products.

Both offering roof based panels ( I have a standing seam roof).

Basically both around 25 kw in size three different areas on roof for panels. Prices are similar ~75K without any batteries. So a massive investment. That doesn't include the federal 30% tax credit obviously but it's not like it is a rebate.

One installer is offering microinverters from enphase -IQ8A- with 25 yr warranty. They have been around since 2003 with great track record for service.

Other installer is offering similar panels with solar edge optimizers and inverters or tesla inverters. They are also a big regional installer with lots of positive reviews

Both I think would bend on me asking for a different design. Both have done solark, neither have done an eg4. Both have been in business a long time and wary of newer, less trustworthy products. They both expressed having had to handle warranty claims on bad products.

Installers showed me real time data on the tesla and enphase apps and they look obviously really sleek and impressive from the phone.

Recs for the best scalable setup for inverters. To add batteries now or in future as a backup?

 

[JakAHearts]

Been reading on the forum for some time.

Planning a scary expensive solar project.

Family uses about 100 kW a day on average.
We don't have a backup generator. But that is one of our priorities is having backup power. We lose power regularly with fall, winter, spring storms.

I live in north western Kentucky. PVWatts uses Evansville, IN for my location which is about 1 hr away.

House is 1 year old, way too big, 5 girls at home, not counting wife. Lots of current and future power needs.

My local utility offers 1:1 net metering.

I am probably too busy to consider this as a DIY project. That is a lot of panels even though I don't shy away from most home projects.

I have a few local solar installers offering me different products.

Both offering roof based panels ( I have a standing seam roof).

Basically both around 25 kw in size three different areas on roof for panels. Prices are similar ~75K without any batteries. So a massive investment. That doesn't include the federal 30% tax credit obviously but it's not like it is a rebate.

One installer is offering microinverters from enphase -IQ8A- with 25 yr warranty. They have been around since 2003 with great track record for service.

Other installer is offering similar panels with solar edge optimizers and inverters or tesla inverters. They are also a big regional installer with lots of positive reviews

Both I think would bend on me asking for a different design. Both have done solark, neither have done an eg4. Both have been in business a long time and wary of newer, less trustworthy products. They both expressed having had to handle warranty claims on bad products.

Installers showed me real time data on the tesla and enphase apps and they look obviously really sleek and impressive from the phone.

Recs for the best scalable setup for inverters. To add batteries now or in future as a backup?

Im in a similiar situation to you (except I only have 3 kids and the wife so around 30-50kwh per day) and something you should consider is the future of your 1to1 buying program with the power company. Mine used to do 1 to 1 but now they dont. They force everyone on grid buy back into timed based pricing among other restrictions. I think batteries are the way to go to ensure longterm benefits. You never know what might happen in ten years. Your electric company might even be bought out or change etc.

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Im in a similiar situation to you (except I only have 3 kids and the wife so around 30-50kwh per day) and something you should consider is the future of your 1to1 buying program with the power company. Mine used to do 1 to 1 but now they dont. They force everyone on grid buy back into timed based pricing among other restrictions. I think batteries are the way to go to ensure longterm benefits. You never know what might happen in ten years. Your electric company might even be bought out or change etc.

Thanks for replying. I know that the local utility once it gets to having 1% of customers with solar will stop their net metering at 1:1. They even took it away in the past and are back to doing it in last few years. Apparently, those who have it will be grandfathered in.

But like you said, who knows what will happen with this company in future as business changes, gets bought out, absorbed by larger utility.

 

[42OhmsPA]

I'd recommend you price out a DIY cost... I have a feeling you will reconsider.
My quick and dirty math figured you could do this for ~$40k with battery storage and Schneider XW Pro Inverters and other goodies. You can easily get new panels for under $10k.

I just looked for the biggest kits from a few of my favorite vendors...

15kW 120/240VAC Hybrid Inverter & 25kWh Battery Kit | Current Connected

Get the Ultimate Backup Bundle with our Hybrid Inverter and Battery Kit. Stay worry-free during power outages with this backup for grid-tied systems.

www.currentconnected.com

Hybrid Off-Grid / Grid-Tie Solar Kit - 19.2kW of REC Solar, 15kW Sol-Ark, and 60 kWh Pytes Lithium Battery Bank

Hybrid Off-Grid / Grid-Tie Solar Kit - 19.2kW of REC400NP3 Solar, 15kW Sol-Ark limitless 15K, and 60 kWh Pytes 48100R Lithium Battery Bank

www.solar-electric.com

https://www.altestore.com/store/solar-power-systems/grid-tie-solar-power-systems/grid-tie-solar-power-systems-p42898/#KITONGRID12640

These aren't all complete but should give you a good idea on how much you could save. The biggest bonus is you'll be able to easily troubleshoot / repair if issues come up.

I mounted 18 315w panels on my roofs by myself in a day and a half, could have easily been done in under a day if I called my buddies to help. With a friend or two helping you could easily knock out 25kw of panels in a few days.

Also look at what your biggest power consumers are and how you can reduce, there are other tax credits for energy efficiency upgrades...

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Thanks for the advice. Schneider XW pros I'm not that familiar with but have seen on a few DIY YT channels and maybe I haven't dug far enough on this site to see what reviewers say. That brand wasn't on my radar. Thanks for showing me a few ideas on kits. I haven't visited any sites except current connected and signature solar.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Family uses about 100 kW a day on average.
We don't have a backup generator. But that is one of our priorities is having backup power. We lose power regularly with fall, winter, spring storms.

I used about the same and more during the winter.

Have 2 x SolArk15ks, started out with 36 panels now going to 72, lots of DIY batteries and some commercial batteries.

While you are getting 1:1 NEMA I would do it.

Shorted your ROI by a lot plus always have power.

DIY is not hard just time consuming especially when it’s just you doing all the work but you know how the system works.
If any problems arise you know how to fix them, not call someone and hope they come out.

DIY it.
Plenty of people on here would help You.
Probably not physically but with any questions.

 

[DIYrich]

Go to Sol-ark's site and look for installers near you.

100kwh per day is like 3 average houses. Do you have electric water heater and heating? If not, get something like Emporia Energy to see where all your power is going. In a new house, maybe there is a defective appliance.

Consider a ground mount system. Much easier to diy and maintain.

Alt-e store is another place to consider. Eg4 powerpro battery is nice, especially if you get the eg4 18kpv.

If you have hybrid car(s), you can tap the high voltage battery for backup charging of your batteries. Toyota maxes out around 3.5kW, which is 80kWh per 24 hours. PHEV might be more. If you have more than 1 hybrid, then it should be doable for backup to solar + batteries during a multi day outtage.

 

[DIYrich]

BTW: I believe the max parallel of solar edge inverters is 3, so that is a 33kW limit. Something to consider if you are starting out at 25kW and anticipate expanding. If you go with Solaredge, make sure they parallel 3 of the 11k inverters, and not any of the smaller ones.

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Go to Sol-ark's site and look for installers near you.

100kwh per day is like 3 average houses. Do you have electric water heater and heating? If not, get something like Emporia Energy to see where all your power is going. In a new house, maybe there is a defective appliance.

Consider a ground mount system. Much easier to diy and maintain.

Alt-e store is another place to consider. Eg4 powerpro battery is nice, especially if you get the eg4 18kpv.

If you have hybrid car(s), you can tap the high voltage battery for backup charging of your batteries. Toyota maxes out around 3.5kW, which is 80kWh per 24 hours. PHEV might be more. If you have more than 1 hybrid, then it should be doable for backup to solar + batteries during a multi day outtage.

The 100 kwh a day is due to the house just being way too big and having washer dryer run non stop with so many kids. We have LP for our forced air heat and tankless hot water heaters. But we have some electric in floor radiant that during the winter keeps a few sections of the house very nicely heated too. Pool pump and lots of loads using so much electricity.

I haven't heard of anyone using their EVs as a battery backup other than the f150 lightning. Was hopeful in future that would be a standard way to have a big battery backup. We don't own a hybrid or EV yet, maybe this project will change that.

Ground mount would be great but I don't have anywhere close to house that wouldn't have a major issue with shading either for am or pm. Roof being standing seam I think is best bet.

Attached photos are what the the two installers drew up for panel placement.

 

[DIYrich]

Not EV. You want a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. You want the car's gas engine to produce electricity. A full tank of gas can charge a long time.

 

[DIYsolarKY]

Not EV. You want a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. You want the car's gas engine to produce electricity. A full tank of gas can charge a long time.

I'm finally catching on as to what you mean. Thanks for the additional info.

Feels a little daunting to figure out how to design a 60 or 70 panel system with all the different strings, possible optimizers, but I know that there is so much expertise and good will on this site that will careful dedication and planning I could probably pull it off.

 

[1201]

What's the ROI on this? What if they cancel net metering after you sign up?

If you use 36mw a year, how much does that cost?

$52.5k after tax deduction-if you assume the long term sp500 geometric return of 8.8% is $4620/yr.

Even putting the money in 5% cd is $2625

 

[Nobodybusiness]

What if they cancel net metering after you sign up?

What are the odds?
Still get it while you can..

 

[DIYsolarKY]

What's the ROI on this? What if they cancel net metering after you sign up?

If you use 36mw a year, how much does that cost?

$52.5k after tax deduction-if you assume the long term sp500 geometric return of 8.8% is $4620/yr.

Even putting the money in 5% cd is $2625

1201, those are great questions.

Always a tricky question with ROI. Have seen lots of graphs from installers claiming the payback period would be ~10 yrs. I would assume my inverter might be about to croak at that point since most warranties are close to done at 10 yrs.

Cost: My local utility is 13 -15 cents/kw including taxes. (36 mw is 4600 -5400)

You raise good points about what this money could do if it was strictly invested in the market or a CD, the wife and I agree that this is a big decision, worth taking time to agonize over it. It is a lot of $. Scary amount. Probably why saving even a portion makes me feel like maybe I should chance the diy and call for help at every step of the planning process on this forum.

Our main motivation for this system is energy independence, protection from outages, having the option to be off grid without breaking the bank and that of course requires us to consider slowly building a decent battery backup because of our frequent power outages.

 

[1201]

1201, those are great questions.

Always a tricky question with ROI. Have seen lots of graphs from installers claiming the payback period would be ~10 yrs. I would assume my inverter might be about to croak at that point since most warranties are close to done at 10 yrs.

Cost: My local utility is 13 -15 cents/kw including taxes. (36 mw is 4600 -5400)

You raise good points about what this money could do if it was strictly invested in the market or a CD, the wife and I agree that this is a big decision, worth taking time to agonize over it. It is a lot of $. Scary amount. Probably why saving even a portion makes me feel like maybe I should chance the diy and call for help at every step of the planning process on this forum.

Our main motivation for this system is energy independence, protection from outages, having the option to be off grid without breaking the bank and that of course requires us to consider slowly building a decent battery backup because of our frequent power outages.

One You don't have to backup the whole house. You can backup critical loads and get a much smaller system. You can also incorporate a small generator if the power goes out during the cloudy days of winter, it can charge the battery.

Two,if you are doing that much laundry(washer uses very little energy) I think you should consider clotheslines a part of your energy independence goal. You can't get more solar then that and the ROI is days not decades

The good news is at least you have a standing seam roof so you don't have to worry about replacing the roof in 15 years with the associated cost of removing and replacing the panels

 

[DIYsolarKY]

One You don't have to backup the whole house. You can backup critical loads and get a much smaller system. You can also incorporate a small generator if the power goes out during the cloudy days of winter, it can charge the battery.

Two,if you are doing that much laundry(washer uses very little energy) I think you should consider clotheslines a part of your energy independence goal. You can't get more solar then that and the ROI is days not decades

The good news is at least you have a standing seam roof so you don't have to worry about replacing the roof in 15 years with the associated cost of removing and replacing the panels

certainly can see the advantages of the smaller system for critical loads.

the devil's advocate in me feels like most people end up expanding their system at some point to accommodate all their power needs which I feel like is just going to increase in time, kids are getting bigger, seeming to find out how to leave more doors open, more lights on (cue the state farm commercial)

I don't think I will ever get the wife or myself motivated enough to put the clothes out on a line. Just too many clothes and too many cloudy/cold/windy days during the year. We have amish in relative close proximity to us and I am always amazed that they wash by hand and somehow dry clothes during the winter.

we would probably much rather spend way too much on the system and end up letting the sun dry the clothes indirectly (via the panels -> inverter -> electric dryer).

 

[JJT211]

Do yourself a favor and create yourself an account on https://www.opensolar.com (its free) and start playing around with different designs. Its basically the same software all the Solar Installers use. You'll be able to calculate your energy production/usage, panel placement, inverters, optimizers, ROI, etc....everything.

I learned more playing with that than anything else.

At 100kwh/day, you should hit your ROI rather quickily

 

[1201]

we would probably much rather spend way too much on the system and end up letting the sun dry the clothes indirectly (via the panels -> inverter -> electric dryer).

This is the way.

 

[DIYsolarKY]

I used about the same and more during the winter.

Have 2 x SolArk15ks, started out with 36 panels now going to 72, lots of DIY batteries and some commercial batteries.

While you are getting 1:1 NEMA I would do it.

Shorted your ROI by a lot plus always have power.

DIY is not hard just time consuming especially when it’s just you doing all the work but you know how the system works.
If any problems arise you know how to fix them, not call someone and hope they come out.

DIY it.
Plenty of people on here would help You.
Probably not physically but with any questions.

I have just emerged from days of planning.

Thanks for the advice to DIY the install, I have several friends including an electrician that have offered to help so I'm trying to wrap up and order everything.

can i ask what batteries you have paired with your two 15 K sol-arks, I'm about to purchase some and wanted some real world advice on how your batteries have worked - when you say commercial do you mean ones that can be purchased or something else?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I have just emerged from days of planning.

Thanks for the advice to DIY the install, I have several friends including an electrician that have offered to help so I'm trying to wrap up and order everything.

can i ask what batteries you have paired with your two 15 K sol-arks, I'm about to purchase some and wanted some real world advice on how your batteries have worked - when you say commercial do you mean ones that can be purchased or something else?

I do have some SOK 48v rack batteries I bought from Current Connected because I wasn’t sure about my DIY.

The DIY turned out to be fine and I bought commercial batteries for no reason.

Buy cells from 18650 store and JK BMS and just make your own.

Initially I bought 128 cells and made 8 batteries.
I used Daly BMS initially and they were less than dependable.

I switched to JK BMS and never had trouble since.

If you have any questions you can PM me..