ScropusGobbleBottom
Corn Pop was a bad dude.
100 billion is NOTHING when they have printed trillions. This simply hurts us. That is the point.
New Tariffs in the States
- Thread starter upnorthandpersonal
- Start date
How can you keep politics out of this thread.
It isn't an act of God doing it. It's the F****** politicians. They ruin everything!!
So a 100% tariff on batteries would mean doubling the cost for us? I am not sure if there is some funky math that makes it 100% on a particular portion divided by the chance of a full moon on a stormy summer evening in Nebraska or other weird illogical math these guys like coming up with.
That does seem a little dumb doesn't it...
It wasn't the US consumers that brought in the tariffs, it wasn't the Chinese manufacturers that brought in the tariffs, it wasn't 'little green from Mars' or the Galactic Federation....
Guess who it was????
Yes- thats how tariffs work...
If a particular item costs $100, and a 100% tariff is put on it- then the total tariff is also $100...
Making the total price $200 (doubling the price)
That's the way tariffs have been calculated since I was a kid... (and thats just when i became aware of how they worked)
In the past I have seen China get round tariffs by subsidising the manufacturer with hidden subsidies. Rebates on local business taxes so the local govt pays them to be located in their area and still gets all local services free. Rebates on export selling prices so they only need to have an external buyer on the invoice and they can charge 50% or local price and get the missing 50% back as a rebate from the Chinese Government.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,483
I was wondering ... and the ad says right there, "Rebate"
So maybe rooftop solar isn't cheaper in Australia (except for lack of red tape.)
Surely imported hardware costs just as much (except for tariffs), and labor rates probably not that much different.
Are your solar prices due to major subsidies, either paid by taxpayer, or pollution taxes, or purchase of clean energy credits?
50% rebate
And more,
"The subsidies initially included a national rebate of A$8,000 for a small 1kW array – more than the sticker price in parts of the country. "
‘Go hard and go big’: How Australia got solar panels onto one in every three houses
Households have continued to use state help that was first created more than a decade ago
www.theguardian.com
Simple: by discussing the implications of a price increase, and the facts surrounding it and not delving into "It's the F****** politicians. ". We know that, the decision is made. No point in discussing that because guaranteed this will devolve into a heated argument about 'your favorite political party', 'China bad', and a bunch of stuff and gets this thread nowhere but the 'chit-chat zone'.
If only this were true.
When the steel tariffs hit several years ago, the cost of a 10' piece of 12ga 2" slotted angle went from $11 per stick to $55. When arguing with my supplier about it, I asked him if the $55 pieces were in the warehouse BEFORE the tariffs hit.
He wasn't thinking and said "Well, yeah."
I asked what was wrong with that picture. He didn't get it.
I switched to EMT to build racking and no longer buy from that guy.
Free enterprise run amuck - screw everyone as much as possible, especially if you have a convenient scapegoat.
The tarrifs are a political decision, but discussing political parties responsible or favoring one vs other cannot be discussed. It will throw off the topic.
It doesnt seem to make sense, but it does...
Material hike, instantly reflected on pricing, material price dip also reflected instantly...
Gotta afford the inventory to keep stocked.
Same thing with gas prices...
Gulf war hits, stations and refineries instantly raise prices to cover future costs...
Even though all the fuel was in place before the price hike...
Companies have to be able to buy replacement inventory with funds from the current sales.
And price drops also instantly reflected to keep up with competition.
It sucks.
Its true.
wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
You missed a step. When oil prices drop, it takes a lot longer for the 'expensive' oil to work its way through the refinery process and the other supply chains. Gas prices _always_ rise immediately on oil price hikes, but _never_ fall for weeks after price cuts.
Aridom82
Learning addict
With quadruple tariffs we are going to need a 'How to make your own Lithium' section in the forum soon.
LOL- you yanks get much larger rebates than we do- in my state (Qld) there is no state rebate at all for a gridtie solar, and the federal government rebate is $400 Au (some states do provide a small rebate as well- two match the federal rebate $ for $)- that $8000 rebate was when the scheme was first introduced... back in the 2000's... whe I got my last gridtie in 2016, it was down to $1000, now its $400 (the rebate scheme ends entirely in 2028 if I remember correctly- I got my grid installation ticket back in 2004, and I'm out of the gridtie solar game altogether, and only do 'word of mouth' offgrids these days- I blew past 50 quite a while ago- Obama was still president then lol, and climbing on hot roofs in 40C plus heat is a young fellas game lol)I was wondering ... and the ad says right there, "Rebate"
So maybe rooftop solar isn't cheaper in Australia (except for lack of red tape.)
Surely imported hardware costs just as much (except for tariffs), and labor rates probably not that much different.
Are your solar prices due to major subsidies, either paid by taxpayer, or pollution taxes, or purchase of clean energy credits?
50% rebate
And more,
"The subsidies initially included a national rebate of A$8,000 for a small 1kW array – more than the sticker price in parts of the country. "
‘Go hard and go big’: How Australia got solar panels onto one in every three houses
Households have continued to use state help that was first created more than a decade ago
So the total cost of that $2300 US to the purchaser system is $400 from the taxpayers here (or $264.40US) if you buy the bigger systems its a bit more obviously, it goes by inverter kW... The installer gets the 75 (or whatever) STC- but they are a gamble (like any stock)- they can hold them and hope for an upswing, or sell them immediately for whatever they are currently trading for...
STC (solar trading credits) are a bit more complicated- they are usually kept by the installer (the system owner 'can' keep them themselves, but quite frankly, I've only ever heard of two people doing it- and they both wished they hadn't)- its a LOT of added work come tax time and you only get about 75 STC for a 6.6kw system with 5kw inverter- these have nothing to do with the government (or the taxpayers) and are traded on a 'solar share market'- the current price is about $35 Au per share, but it is extremely volatile, and has dropped as low as $16 Au - so at current rates, the STC's are worth $2625 (which the installation company keeps, or you can buy them off them at the time you pay for your system at the current price- above the usual installation price that is)- if you sell them, you pay tax on it like any other income, if you keep them yourself, then you have to declare it as a taxable asset- thats why no-one wants to keep them yourself... (the installation companies usually sell all the installations STC they hold off onto the market once a month, otherwise they have to do all that paperwork keeping track of them)- the federal government initially supported the STC system with tax payments, but that hasn't been the case for over a decade...
So even with the STC and government rebates included- the new owner still pays that $2300 US for the 6.6kw system (and thats all- that covers all costs involved, no more to pay for the usual install), the installation company gets the $265US rebate, plus 75 STC's (of a varying value- currently worth about $1735.10 US- making the total cost of the system 'about' $4435 US in total... of which the homeowner pays $2300US, the taxpayers via the federal government (at least in Qld) pay $265, and 'the share market' pays 'around' $1735US (at todays rates)
Still only 'about' $4500US for a 6.6kw system, fully installed... (and because these are privately owned companies- they have to cover ALL their costs, and still make a profit at the end of the day...)
Not $20k, not $30k, not $60k...
Under $5k US...
See why I said the US has one of the highest solar costs in the world????
Steve_S
Offgrid Cabineer, N.E. Ontario, Canada
What exactly will happen & when it will be implemented at this point is just SPECULATION right now. It will all be released on May 21st (next Tuesday). Given the timing of the Announcement of this and when an "Official" release will be, is curious. Shock up front and less in reality ? see shall see.
Regardless, expect prices to jump, availability decrease and complications. There are indeed rumblings elsewhere about possible consequences to them, some even thinking it may give them even better deals as one market cuts itself off and there is even more excess stock to unload.
Regardless, expect prices to jump, availability decrease and complications. There are indeed rumblings elsewhere about possible consequences to them, some even thinking it may give them even better deals as one market cuts itself off and there is even more excess stock to unload.
And to address the 'lack of red tape'- a gridtie or hybrid system in Australia requires installation of one of the 'Australian Standards Tested and Approved' inverters only (which can cost between $50k to half a million to get an approval per model, no approval, no install it)- to install the panels means getting a 'solar installers ticket' for each worker fitting the panels (costs each worker over $1500 a year total in licencing fees), all electrical work is done by trade qualified and licenced electricians (that can run upwards of $2 grand a year), before anyone is allowed on the roof, a qualified 'roofworker'/scaffolder needs to fit 'roof fencing' for single story houses (for multistory houses, a licenced scaffolder is required to erect scaffolding), No 'running up a ladder with a panel slung on your back'- panels must be lifted to the roof (again approved lifting equipment required), the company has to hold public liability insurance, a 'solar installation' licence, do all the 'normal' paperwork as well as dealing with the federal government paperwork, the state electrical distribution company paperwork and approvals (the entire network itself is owned by a state government department), they have to register, maintain and insure their fleet of vehicles, plus running costs (diesel in the cities is about $1.90 Au a litre, here its closer to $2.40 a litre- thats $1.59 US a litre or about $6 US a gallon)
This was a 'half tank' topup- 32.5L, cost $78.20 (thats 8.5 gallons, and at todays exchange rate, it cost $51.70US)
Most Aussie companies wish they had as little 'red tape' to worry about- like I said before, US tradies tend to not last long on the job here- they simply have no concept of 'safe working practices' as done in Australia (or indeed most of the first world) and simply can't handle it... (plus many simply don't meet the standards required to get the licences involved...)
This was a 'half tank' topup- 32.5L, cost $78.20 (thats 8.5 gallons, and at todays exchange rate, it cost $51.70US)
Most Aussie companies wish they had as little 'red tape' to worry about- like I said before, US tradies tend to not last long on the job here- they simply have no concept of 'safe working practices' as done in Australia (or indeed most of the first world) and simply can't handle it... (plus many simply don't meet the standards required to get the licences involved...)
No stock in the US?
There is. But they cost more. The other thing is I was not planning on buying more yet, so not really in the budget either. By the time it is, stateside cells may be much more $. Blah.
Aridom82
Learning addict
I was reading about tariffs and they are supposed to be for protection of a national industry.
About the EVs we know that the Chinese companies are eating Tesla's croissant so it makes some sense.
But does the US has a domestic solar/lithium industry that needs protection?
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,483
You are in Canada. Will these tariffs affect the price you pay?
How porous is our Northern border?
I served as my own importer (and had to get an EIN, employer ID number) when I received a shipment of equipment from Japan.
I did the same buying a pallet of Canada-made SMA inverters from Canada.
What tariffs apply to assembled products coming from China to US? From Canada, if the content is largely from China?
"Portable lights, trailer mounted. With 28kWh of LiFePO4 battery."
