Portable EV Battery in working car used as Home BackUp Power

[Samsonite801]

No! A 110 hp Nissan Leaf or a 700+hp Tesla S have the same quantity of cells in serie (96S) and around the same nominal voltage (350V-360V chemistry dependent).
Remove from the equation all the hybrides, plug in hybrides and after almost all electric car have similar nominal voltage based on a 96S battery. It's the case for Tesla cars, GM Volt, Spark* and Bolt, Nissan leaf, Kia electric cars, BMW electric cars and so.


Commonly available??? I want this, I want this. Where? Where?
Where to find 360vdc input inverter with 120vac output?

*Some Chevy Spark have LFP battery with higher count of cell, but same 360V nominal voltage.

There are 384v inverters for datacenters that work in that rough voltage range (I would think a range would be maybe 350v-400v or something, someone would have to test one on a Leaf or a Tesla and see if smoke comes out anywhere). The SURT8000XLT is rated at 384v with 32 SLA 12v cells.

APC SURT8000XLT Smart UPS Battery Backup 8Kva 6400W w/ Battery trays | eBay

Batteries are not included.

www.ebay.com

My APC SURT5000XLT in my Prius is rated at 192v nominal (16 SLA 12v cells from factory), and my Prius hybrid lithium battery is rated at 207.2v (56 cells @ 3.7v)... I just got a cheap SURT6000XLT which is also 192v and will install that into my Prius soon to get up to 4.2kW

But the SURT8000XLT and SURT10000XLT support 384v nominal...

Then you still need a SURT003, for the 240v single-phase > 240v/120v split-phase (if you desired that as well)...

 

[Samsonite801]

6kW and 57 lbs.
(not including a transformer to make 120/240 out of 240)

I think that 2kW is a 120V reserve power feature, intended for convenience during grid failures. If you didn't buy "ABU" to go with it.

Because it is a grid-tie inverter, to use is as a stand-alone inverter it needs to be told to generate an island grid. The "Automatic Backup Unit" would conveniently, expensively, and heavily do that along with providing the 120/240 transformer. If you could provide the BMS interface to it from car's battery it should be great as a fixed location system to supply the house (and charge from GT inverters.) Just not great portable.

In my application, I am off-grid only, so I don't know how the Sunny Boy could fit into that part of the equation, as I need inverter for the home power 100%, I would have to operate it in Island mode only...

I had pondered the idea of making a home battery bank that could match my car's 207.2v exactly, so they could just be paralleled straight, but then I need inverters, and MPPT charge controllers which can charge that bank, and so thus why I had seen that Sunny Boy potential solution and raised an eyebrow... For now the plan is to stick with 48v home bank though.. Doesn't make practical sense to try and make such a fancy interface, just to hook into a car which I may not own in 5 years...

 

[Hedges]

In my application, I am off-grid only, so I don't know how the Sunny Boy could fit into that part of the equation, as I need inverter for the home power 100%, I would have to operate it in Island mode only...

I had pondered the idea of making a home battery bank that could match my car's 207.2v exactly, so they could just be paralleled straight, but then I need inverters, and MPPT charge controllers which can charge that bank, and so thus why I had seen that Sunny Boy potential solution and raised an eyebrow... For now the plan is to stick with 48v home bank though.. Doesn't make practical sense to try and make such a fancy interface, just to hook into a car which I may not own in 5 years...

People did hook Sunny Boy SWR2500U to a Prius battery, for grid-support experiments.

If you have a 48V battery inverter that works with AC coupling, a Sunny Boy or other GT inverter could take power from a high voltage battery and supply AC. With frequency shift, the battery inverter would ask for just enough power from AC to supply loads and keep the 48V lead-acid (or lithium) battery fully charged. A small lead-acid would work well in this case because it would supply surge loads, and the much larger vehicle battery would feed steady loads.

You would want a data interface to support bi-directional power in this case, charging car when surplus PV was available, discharging at night. So you would need to control an AC charger when there was surplus from PV (frequency between 61 and 62 Hz), besides having the V2H Sunny Boy curtail output from 60.5 to 61 Hz.

The latest Sunny Boys work with DC from 100V to 550V. But they may only have PV MPPT mode, not the "turbine" or "constant voltage" modes of earlier models.

 

[Samsonite801]

People did hook Sunny Boy SWR2500U to a Prius battery, for grid-support experiments.

If you have a 48V battery inverter that works with AC coupling, a Sunny Boy or other GT inverter could take power from a high voltage battery and supply AC. With frequency shift, the battery inverter would ask for just enough power from AC to supply loads and keep the 48V lead-acid (or lithium) battery fully charged. A small lead-acid would work well in this case because it would supply surge loads, and the much larger vehicle battery would feed steady loads.

You would want a data interface to support bi-directional power in this case, charging car when surplus PV was available, discharging at night. So you would need to control an AC charger when there was surplus from PV (frequency between 61 and 62 Hz), besides having the V2H Sunny Boy curtail output from 60.5 to 61 Hz.

The latest Sunny Boys work with DC from 100V to 550V. But they may only have PV MPPT mode, not the "turbine" or "constant voltage" modes of earlier models.

Yeah that might be more useful for a full electric car, or for a large capacity hybrid like a Prius Prime (which has a farther range and bigger battery), my Prius hybrid is the Gen 4 w/ lithium option model which only has .75kW/h battery, so it is really nothing more than a small buffer. That was one reason I had pondered to parallel it with a house battery of same volts, thinking it would make the buffer larger (while powering the house loads) and the car engine might run for longer cycles, and shutting off for longer cycles. Right now it cycles the engine every 5-10 minutes to charge that little .75kW/h battery (which really isn't bad, the startup is very smooth as it uses the generator/motor to spin it up, not like a regular flywheel starter would, kind of sounds like a genset turning on, or a golf cart starting).

So for now, my plan was to just continue to use the SURT6000XLT inverter on the Prius to be the portable generator for universal use, but also to wire it to the new MPP LV6548's I ordered, onto generator input for emergency use only, as I am planning to have enough solar that I would likely never need a supplemental generator, but if I do, it's there.

In my case of the hybrid, it isn't really useful to charge back to the car in that direction, since it doesn't really offer any storage advantage. If my next car were say, a Tesla(!), though, then it could make sense to have bi-directional movement of power, since it would be like an extended storage basically for your house, but then the Tesla isn't really a generator like a hybrid is (the 2 cars serve different purposes), unless you went to town to get free power from a supercharger and brought it home to use there I guess.

 

[jasonhc73]

Lucid Air to be the Fastest Charging EV, Featuring a 900V+ Architecture Delivering a Charging Rate of Up to 20 Miles Per Minute

There were luxury cars, then EVs, and now there’s Lucid — the new generation of luxury electric.

www.lucidmotors.com

 

[curiouscarbon]

900V neat

 

[Capt Bill]

People did hook Sunny Boy SWR2500U to a Prius battery, for grid-support experiments.

If you have a 48V battery inverter that works with AC coupling, a Sunny Boy or other GT inverter could take power from a high voltage battery and supply AC. With frequency shift, the battery inverter would ask for just enough power from AC to supply loads and keep the 48V lead-acid (or lithium) battery fully charged. A small lead-acid would work well in this case because it would supply surge loads, and the much larger vehicle battery would feed steady loads.

You would want a data interface to support bi-directional power in this case, charging car when surplus PV was available, discharging at night. So you would need to control an AC charger when there was surplus from PV (frequency between 61 and 62 Hz), besides having the V2H Sunny Boy curtail output from 60.5 to 61 Hz.

The latest Sunny Boys work with DC from 100V to 550V. But they may only have PV MPPT mode, not the "turbine" or "constant voltage" modes of earlier models.

Found Sunny Boy SWR2500U specs saying: 208/240 V Selectable Output (imagining single phase); 2500W, 11A Peak; 2200W Nominal; 3000W Input @ 250-600V >>> Interesting. Wonder what options with higher A ratings might be consider when experimenting? while thinking higher cost will likely be showing up in that arena.

 

[Samsonite801]

I just found out the company (plugoutpower.com) that is making the turn-key inverters for hybrid car generator applications, are making them with DC 24v and 48v outputs (as well as the split-phase AC 240v/120v output) to also directly charge a home battery bank. Just came in on the latest newsletter where they sent a bunch of documents on the new product line...

This came off the price sheet:

PlugOut 5kw – 48v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2790.00

PlugOut 3kw – 24v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2390.00


They also provided a supported vehicle list as one of the papers, including all the models... The inverter looks like it supports a DC input range of 125v-450v, so that could mean it would work on lots of hybrids other than the ones on their list...

 

[Capt Bill]

I just found out the company (plugoutpower.com) that is making the turn-key inverters for hybrid car generator applications, are making them with DC 24v and 48v outputs (as well as the split-phase AC 240v/120v output) to also directly charge a home battery bank. Just came in on the latest newsletter where they sent a bunch of documents on the new product line...

This came off the price sheet:

PlugOut 5kw – 48v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2790.00

PlugOut 3kw – 24v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2390.00


They also provided a supported vehicle list as one of the papers, including all the models... The inverter looks like it supports a DC input range of 125v-450v, so that could mean it would work on lots of hybrids other than the ones on their list...

View attachment 29315


View attachment 29316

Awesome: I knew some group of folks would be working on this/ as it make so much sense. I found more info at one of their sub-pages: https://plugoutpower.com/f/best-uses-for-the-plugout

(May 2020 message: saying: PlugOut Power, LLC, formerly named ConVerdant Vehicles, is testing several vehicle makes and models for compatibility with their new high voltage power converters. The new 3kw and 5kw units will output AC or DC power for any off-grid use - home power outages, jobsites, camping, tailgating or as a solar battery extender. ... & ... Reservations are being accepted on the website, https://plugoutpower.com/. Early-bird discounts of 6% are offered now, with additional discounts for referrals. The company expects to begin shipping pre-ordered units this fall. ... So, I wonder what is going on NOW. I will be studying more later Thanks for the web link .... :+) ... P.S. I just left a message w those guys for update info. which I hope shows up here soon.

 

[Samsonite801]

Awesome: I knew some group of folks would be working on this/ as it make so much sense. I found more info at one of their sub-pages: https://plugoutpower.com/f/best-uses-for-the-plugout

(May 2020 message: saying: PlugOut Power, LLC, formerly named ConVerdant Vehicles, is testing several vehicle makes and models for compatibility with their new high voltage power converters. The new 3kw and 5kw units will output AC or DC power for any off-grid use - home power outages, jobsites, camping, tailgating or as a solar battery extender. ... & ... Reservations are being accepted on the website, https://plugoutpower.com/. Early-bird discounts of 6% are offered now, with additional discounts for referrals. The company expects to begin shipping pre-ordered units this fall. ... So, I wonder what is going on NOW. I will be studying more later Thanks for the web link .... :+)

Yeah I read that page before (back in May), but somehow I missed the part about it supporting DC 24v/48v output... I'm assuming it might be floating a set output voltage, or if it will eventually support different multi-stage charging profiles...

It states in the brochure:
"
-PlugOut also provides 24/48v DC power out to maintain charge on a solar battery. When the sun hasn’t shined for a while, let the car keep your battery charged and working.
"

At any rate, here is the brochure draft, attached...

 

[yabert]

Ummm! Seem like the exact same 400$ Chinese inverter they tried to sell at 10 time the price.
All the specs are the same (120V-450Vdc input, output 24V 80A and so...).
On their web site they talk about 300-500$ for cable install... Well, seem a lot like a DIY solution they try to sell as a fully ready solution.

 

[Capt Bill]

PlugOut also provides 24/48v DC power out to maintain charge on a solar battery

RE the 24v/48v output specs ... I wonder if it might be two way, as in also able to charge the car PV battery from the Solar Battery's PV Input ??? ... while plug in integrated into that same Solar power system's battery bank. If not, ... that a good feature to put on the list of possibles :+) ... I'd buy stock if such equipment when I saw good dependable working unit, and a company that needs expansion cash. ... Food for though as this become part of my study list :+)

 

[Samsonite801]

Ummm! Seem like the exact same 400$ Chinese inverter they tried to sell at 10 time the price.
All the specs are the same (120V-450Vdc input, output 24V 80A and so...).
On their web site they talk about 300-500$ for cable install... Well, seem a lot like a DIY solution they try to sell as a fully ready solution.

Hey nice observation It would go along with this other guy in the Prius forums before, where a guy said he got a Midnite Classic Charge controller to work using the PV input on his Prius battery, and he dialed it into a custom curve on a wind charge profile and he tweaked the map to get the right volt to amp curve or something like that, to charge his home 48v bank.

And also on this one here, the other dude must've chosen this all-in-one partly because it can run batteryless mode, as some Prius owners may just want to use it for an AC power source and can optionally plug a battery up on the home grid.

I wonder how much tweaking this guy had to do to make the Prius battery play well on the MPPT input, or if he had the company make a special firmware for this application (with special curve) or something special (or if he is just running out of the box with stock firmware)...

 

[Samsonite801]

RE the 24v/48v output specs ... I wonder if it might be two way, as in also able to charge the car PV battery from the Solar Battery's PV Input ??? ... while plug in integrated into that same Solar power system's battery bank. If not, ... that a good feature to put on the list of possibles :+) ... I'd buy stock if such equipment when I saw good dependable working unit, and a company that needs expansion cash. ... Food for though as this become part of my study list :+)

Yeah, it wouldn't be able to backfeed the power to the car battery, as this all-in-one he is using, is using the MPPT PV input for the Prius battery side. In my case, my Prius only has a .75kW/h battery so it doesn't do it any good to charge the onboard battery from an external source, since it only takes the car about 5 mins to charge it with the engine. Maybe on the Prius Prime that ability would be more useful...

 

[Capt Bill]

I just found out the company (plugoutpower.com) that is making the turn-key inverters for hybrid car generator applications, are making them with DC 24v and 48v outputs (as well as the split-phase AC 240v/120v output) to also directly charge a home battery bank. Just came in on the latest newsletter where they sent a bunch of documents on the new product line...

This came off the price sheet:

PlugOut 5kw – 48v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2790.00

PlugOut 3kw – 24v battery charger, 240/120vac split phase output $2390.00


They also provided a supported vehicle list as one of the papers, including all the models... The inverter looks like it supports a DC input range of 125v-450v, so that could mean it would work on lots of hybrids other than the ones on their list...

View attachment 29315


View attachment 29316

Yo, I contacted Randy Bryan <info@plugoutpower.com> , including with a link to this forum thread: Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ???? Here is DIALOG AND INVITE I got back from Randy:

> William
>
> Thank you for the inquiry. As I read all the entries in the Forum,
> I was channeling Rodney Dangerfield ['Don't get no respect']. In
> the 8 years since I starting selling PlugOut systems, I have
> never/rarely seen any mention or credit of
> my company... that it even exists. Like talking inside a Leyden Jar.
> Anyway, thanks for finding me.
>
> So, I trust you have seen the website? I'll have a newer one soon
> that explains more about the product and its use.
>
> Meanwhile, what would you like to know? Do you have gatherings?
> Maybe by Zoom. I'd be happy to talk about the PlugOut and various
> uses for V2H, including solar.
>
> Let me know your thoughts.
>
> Randy Bryan
>
> PlugOut Power

*************
My Notes: I would like to see this happen; If there is interest, I will also post the Invite to to other threads, and a few individuals. I personally think this could be an Interesting Topics for one of Will Prowse's Lessons on YouTube University :+)

 

[Samsonite801]

Yo, I contacted Randy Bryan <info@plugoutpower.com> , including with a link to this forum thread: Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ???? Here is DIALOG AND INVITE I got back from Randy:

> William
>
> Thank you for the inquiry. As I read all the entries in the Forum,
> I was channeling Rodney Dangerfield ['Don't get no respect']. In
> the 8 years since I starting selling PlugOut systems, I have
> never/rarely seen any mention or credit of
> my company... that it even exists. Like talking inside a Leyden Jar.
> Anyway, thanks for finding me.
>
> So, I trust you have seen the website? I'll have a newer one soon
> that explains more about the product and its use.
>
> Meanwhile, what would you like to know? Do you have gatherings?
> Maybe by Zoom. I'd be happy to talk about the PlugOut and various
> uses for V2H, including solar.
>
> Let me know your thoughts.
>
> Randy Bryan
>
> PlugOut Power

*************
My Notes: I would like to see this happen; If there is interest, I will also post the Invite to to other threads, and a few individuals. I personally think this could be an Interesting Topics for one of Will Prowse's Lessons on YouTube University :+)

Do you have a link to that thread: "Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ????"

I can't seem to find one in Search here, or Google...

 

[jasonhc73]

Yo, I contacted Randy Bryan <info@plugoutpower.com> , including with a link to this forum thread: Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ???? Here is DIALOG AND INVITE I got back from Randy:

> William
>
> Thank you for the inquiry. As I read all the entries in the Forum,
> I was channeling Rodney Dangerfield ['Don't get no respect']. In
> the 8 years since I starting selling PlugOut systems, I have
> never/rarely seen any mention or credit of
> my company... that it even exists. Like talking inside a Leyden Jar.
> Anyway, thanks for finding me.
>
> So, I trust you have seen the website? I'll have a newer one soon
> that explains more about the product and its use.
>
> Meanwhile, what would you like to know? Do you have gatherings?
> Maybe by Zoom. I'd be happy to talk about the PlugOut and various
> uses for V2H, including solar.
>
> Let me know your thoughts.
>
> Randy Bryan
>
> PlugOut Power

*************
My Notes: I would like to see this happen; If there is interest, I will also post the Invite to to other threads, and a few individuals. I personally think this could be an Interesting Topics for one of Will Prowse's Lessons on YouTube University :+)

HECK TO THE YEA!

I reserved and signed up!

Do you have a link to that thread: "Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ????"

I can't seem to find one in Search here, or Google...

HOME | PlugOut Power, Generator for hybrid vehicles | United States

Hybrid and plug-in vehicles can become power generators for the home using the PlugOut inverter.

plugoutpower.com

Scroll to the very bottom.

 

[Samsonite801]

HECK TO THE YEA!

I reserved and signed up!

HOME | PlugOut Power, Generator for hybrid vehicles | United States

Hybrid and plug-in vehicles can become power generators for the home using the PlugOut inverter.

plugoutpower.com

Scroll to the very bottom.

Oh yeah, I already signed up for that back in May or something and I get all his newsletters ever since. I was just curious if there was a forum thread with that title somewhere hehe...

(...including with a link to this forum thread: "Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ????")

 

[Capt Bill]

Oh yeah, I already signed up for that back in May or something and I get all his newsletters ever since. I was just curious if there was a forum thread with that title somewhere hehe...

(...including with a link to this forum thread: "Who is Interested in learning more from Randy about What PLUGOUPOWER is doing ????")

I have been staying in touch with Randy (a little bit) at https://www.plugoutpower.com/ who is evolving with his work focus on: (Info from updated website/ recommended): "PlugOut Power offers a new series of high voltage PlugOut inverters." (5kW and 3kW versions). "Where our previous products only supported Prius for AC power out, the new PlugOut models are designed to support nearly any electrified vehicle (both hybrid and plug-in models) with AC or DC power out for any off-grid use. PlugOut inverters can turn your electrified car into a highly efficient generator, for the home, jobsite, camping, tailgating, or as a solar battery extender."
... PLUS: (from Randy's pdf brochure: "Our car-cable installer network continues to grow. We now have about 40 independent garages on board spanning about 60 sites. Major markets now have some coverage. Much more expansion yet to go. PlugOut Power pledges to find 1-2 garages within about an hour’s drive [or so] of any sale. Some ‘garages’ will come to your place. ... I will study what Randy is doing with high interest. I hope to promote a zoom meeting with him sometime this upcoming Spring for whoever might want to interact that way, and see what randy has to share, plus have option to ask questions in person .... I think this is a topic to watch. Yo Will Prowse: This topic arena might be an interesting YouTube topic; or food for thought on lesson options

 

[Capt Bill]

I have been thinking of Randy (a bit) at https://www.plugoutpower.com/ for his evolutions of AC output options for certain EVs, from connection to their EV Batteries. What I want to eventually see beyond those options (they look great) ... is some kind of in between dc connected - inverter converter charger unit that would allow a higher volt EV Battery (I believe they operate in about 200 - 250vdc range) to be used with a 48vdc Home Solar System Battery Bank. ... I think the big guys are working on this, and the big utility companies are afraid of losing the monopoly like powers when this become regulated, legal, and green lighted. Re: Small guy DIY options: What would it take to integrate a 250vdc EV battery to a 48vdc battery; ... as in for use of the higher EV battery voltage to charge up and then float a 48vdc battery bank connected to home solar system loads, and transfer EV battery power as needed for home 120vac loads (through the existing home solar system); .. ASLO: & When PV Power is available; use it to charge up/ then float the 48vdc battery bank plus (what computerized chip set/ electronics/ inverter could be invented to do this) ... charge up the 200+ vdc EV battery via a DC connection. Might be a pipe dream; While I believe anything is possible when one also apply using one's Mind as a Tool (instead of letting our Mind be "The Master"/ with all those finger pointing critic thought tape loops we all see too much of in our news and in our culture).

... I know one can use a home solar system to charge up an EV's Battery via the AC to DC charger route, and a 40 amp/ 240vac charger will be way faster in charging time than any 120vac charger option. That advantage of the idea I am pitching above; is the option of using EV Battery to expand the Watt Hours and Amp Hours of your home solar battery bank; and greatly increase run time of your home solar system loads during no grid and low sunshine days :+)