power supply's, before you purchase!

[EZ Generator Switch]

Disclaimer: I am not here to pass judgement on any company selling power supplies I am here to inform you of facts that we know are true. So...Before you purchase a power supply such as Eco flow, Jackery, Renogy etc...that you wish to connect to any transfer switch. You need to be aware some equipment will not work with certain other pieces of equipment that you want to energize. None of the issues are related to any transfer switch. A transfer switch doesn't know if it passing along dirty current or if its passing along a floating or Bonded system...its just transferring what you provide. We go thru this day in day out , customers purchase a power unit and it will not run their furnace or other specific equipment. They contact us for help thinking its a transfer switch issue, bad news...its the unit you purchased! They just didn't tell you before your purchased your power supply system, It will NOT energize lets say your furnace due to their configuration and the requirements of your equipment.
We spend hours chasing these companies trying to get answers for our customers...trying to help anyway we can. Many companies don't have employees that even under stand there are two basic systems. Floating and Bonded neutral systems, so you might as well be talking to the wall. Or they suggest using a neutral bonding plug>>> news flash they are not legal, they may have a label but the NEC is very clear about how & where you bond a neutral and it is not downstream away from the panel, ever. Simply put you want all unbalance of a system to flow back on the neutral to the source not flow back on the ground wire. Grounds are there for fault current only, unless there is a fault it should NEVER have current on it.
If a company is telling you a neutral bonding plug is OK then its OK to bond their "neutral" in a transfer switch. The difference is the transfer switch is bringing their neutral all the back to the source ( per the NEC) and at that location it is bonded to ground, not downstream somewhere.
So, you spent $$ on a system that will not power your Lennox, Buderus, Trane and some microwaves. Fact is, any system that is searching for a neutral that is bonded to ground, flame rectification system, voltage gradient between neutral and ground will not run, Please don't blame the transfer switch its doing its job. Please do your homework, be certain their neutral in their system can be connected to the house system neutral and you will avoid problems.
If you know the system you purchased works because their neutral is bonded to the house system neutral via a transfer switch you may want to post that info to help others. To date we have found Eco-Flow, Renogy, Growatt thru our customer base are working.
Here is a response from Bluetti >

• Bluetti replied "Sorry that our power station is floating grounded. You need to buy a neutral plug."

My personal interpretation tells me they have a floating neutral (expected) but the grounding plug tells me their neutral can be connected to the house neutral system. However I don't know of anyone using a bluetti with a transfer switch set up to bond the bluetti neutral to the house neutral. (this would be not switching the neutrals in a transfer switch)

> Jackery has made it clear to several of our customers...They do not want their system connected to the house neutral system. Jackery, unless they changed their mind will not work with certain equipment.

 

[reddhawkk]

How about an Inergy? We have one but it was not bought for that, it would just be good to know if it will work for that.

 

[Nan_wpg]

What’s the harm in a “bonding plug”?

neutral bond in “only one place”, and close to the source, which in this case is the portable power pack. (Off grid remote no power, water, or people).

i,can see if you plug the power box into a wall, and then use a “binding plug”. You’d have 2 bonds. A no no.

 

[timselectric]

What’s the harm in a “bonding plug”?

neutral bond in “only one place”, and close to the source, which in this case is the portable power pack. (Off grid remote no power, water, or people).

i,can see if you plug the power box into a wall, and then use a “binding plug”. You’d have 2 bonds. A no no.

Some of the lower cost inverters are not capable of dealing with their neutral and ground being bonded together. Because their case is bonded to the DC negative. And they don't have any isolation or protection between the AC and DC sides. (Electronics burn up)
You can probably guess how I learned this. lol

 

[Nan_wpg]

Some of the lower cost inverters are not capable of dealing with their neutral and ground being bonded together. Because their case is bonded to the DC negative. And they don't have any isolation or protection between the AC and DC sides. (Electronics burn up)
You can probably guess how I learned this. lol

morningstar instructions show their neutral is,bonded to ground, which is bonded to the case, which is also bonded to,dc, and ground.

I be;ieve the correct way is to bond the neutral to ground on the ac side, (and connect all metal), then connect all metal on the dc side as well, and then bond negative to ground. Then you tie both ac and dc ground together at one point then to ground.

I guess,this answer my post asking why there’s a price,difference in stuff

 

[timselectric]

I be;ieve the correct way is to bond the neutral to ground on the ac side, (and connect all metal), then connect all metal on the dc side as well, and then bond negative to ground. Then you tie both ac and dc ground together at one point then to ground.

This is correct for some situations. (Mostly mobile installations) in permanent installations only the AC system is bonded usually. And with portable small inverters there's usually no bonding at all. In any case you should always follow the manufacturers instructions.

 

[Nan_wpg]

This is correct for some situations. (Mostly mobile installations) in permanent installations only the AC system is bonded usually. And with portable small inverters there's usually no bonding at all. In any case you should always follow the manufacturers instructions.

Accosting to the grounding made simple downloads, both,ac and dc are connected, bonded, and grounded. I think it’s required over river and optional under 48v. Most people don’t bond dc.

 

[John Frum]

morningstar instructions show their neutral is,bonded to ground, which is bonded to the case, which is also bonded to,dc, and ground.

I be;ieve the correct way is to bond the neutral to ground on the ac side, (and connect all metal), then connect all metal on the dc side as well, and then bond negative to ground. Then you tie both ac and dc ground together at one point then to ground.

I guess,this answer my post asking why there’s a price,difference in stuff

Consider the following topology.
NOTE: There is a hover menu at the bottom of the diagram to navigate between pages
If their is a dc ground fault inside the inverter case you need a high current path to clear the fault.

Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software

tinyurl.com

Both ac and dc domains get ground reference and fault clearance.

 

[timselectric]

Accosting to the grounding made simple downloads, both,ac and dc are connected, bonded, and grounded. I think it’s required over river and optional under 48v. Most people don’t bond dc.

It all depends on what the manufacturer says to do.
A lot of the AIO's specifically say "do not bond DC positive or negative to ground".

 

[Nan_wpg]

Consider the following topology.
NOTE: There is a hover menu at the bottom of the diagram to navigate between pages
If their is a dc ground fault inside the inverter case you need a high current path to clear the fault.

Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software

tinyurl.com

Both ac and dc domains get ground reference and fault clearance.

You’ll have to,dumb this down for me. The link shows ac, and dc. Ac is bonded, dc isn’t?

 

[Nan_wpg]

It all depends on what the manufacturer says to do.
A lot of the AIO's specifically say "do not bond DC positive or negative to ground".

Is that because of lack of isolation? I don’t even understand how ac and dc CANT be isolated? Isn’t that the whole point of an inverter?

 

[John Frum]

You’ll have to,dumb this down for me. The link shows ac, and dc. Ac is bonded, dc isn’t?

There is a neutral/ground bond in the inverter(shown on the second page).
The path to earth is via the inverter chassis lug->dc ground busbar->grounding electrode.

Grounding does 2 mains things.
fault clearance and equi-potential with the thing we are all standing on.

 

[Nan_wpg]

There is a neutral/ground bond in the inverter(shown on the second page).
The path to earth is via the inverter chassis lug->dc ground busbar->grounding electrode.

Grounding does 2 mains things.
fault clearance and equi-potential with the thing we are all standing on.

You’re basically,agreeing with me, Morningstar, and the guy who did the grounding made simple downloads (can’t remember offhand)??

i took your post as disagreement, but the link made sense to me But had me second guessing myself

 

[timselectric]

Is that because of lack of isolation? I don’t even understand how ac and dc CANT be isolated? Isn’t that the whole point of an inverter?

In a low frequency inverters that is transformer based. yes, There's usually isolation.
In a high frequency inverter that is capacitor based, rarely.

 

[Nan_wpg]

In a low frequency inverters that is transformer based. yes, There's usually isolation.
In a high frequency inverter that is capacitor based, rarely.

So then the grounding made simple downloads are not correct? There are cases when one does Not tie and, and dc ground to gether? Equipment manual over rides everything? Codes over ride everything else?

 

[John Frum]

Then you tie both ac and dc ground together at one point then to ground.

The inverter chassis grounding lug ties ac/dc grounds together.

 

[Nan_wpg]

The inverter chassis grounding lug ties ac/dc grounds together

 

[Nan_wpg]

According to,Morningstar the grounding lug connects chassis, and bonds ac neutral. Installer has to ground dc negative which is connected also to the ac

 

[timselectric]

There are cases when one does Not tie ac, and dc ground to gether?

Absolutely

 

[Nan_wpg]