Eco Flow answer to bonding their neutral

[EZ Generator Switch]

Many people contact us not just for Eco flow but many other battery/inverter units. Here is a copy from Eco flow to their customer regarding bonding their neutral.
Just providing this information as a FYI , pretty evident their customer service may need some direction?


"Eco Flow does not bond the neutral and ground, and leaves that to the upstream 120V connector. If you connect to your home, you already have ground, even when the power is out. If you are "portable", then you need to bond."

Taking a closer look at that statement>>>
" Eco Flow does not bond the neutral and ground, and leaves that to the upstream 120V connector." Almost scary. There is nothing "upstream" the Eco flow is producing the power, the neutral is floating and is not code compliant. All neutrals need to be bonded at the first means of disconnect via a transfer switch not a neutral bonding plug.
" If you connect to your home, you already have ground, even when the power is out. Grounds are not neutrals, neutrals carry the unbalance of the load back, grounds have zero current on them and are there for a fault only. This is why you only bond at the first means of disconnect ( your main panel)
If you are "portable", then you need to bond." Correct, that is per the NEC, but here lies the issue >Eco flow will not let you bond their neutral, so how could you ever be code compliant?

 

[timselectric]

It's a portable unit, in a plastic case. It doesn't need to be bonded, unless it's connected to the house panel. In that case, the house bond takes care of it.
(Assuming that the person doing the connection is qualified to do it correctly)

 

[ChrisG]

Many people contact us not just for Eco flow but many other battery/inverter units. Here is a copy from Eco flow to their customer regarding bonding their neutral.
Just providing this information as a FYI , pretty evident their customer service may need some direction?


"Eco Flow does not bond the neutral and ground, and leaves that to the upstream 120V connector. If you connect to your home, you already have ground, even when the power is out. If you are "portable", then you need to bond."

Taking a closer look at that statement>>>
" Eco Flow does not bond the neutral and ground, and leaves that to the upstream 120V connector." Almost scary. There is nothing "upstream" the Eco flow is producing the power, the neutral is floating and is not code compliant. All neutrals need to be bonded at the first means of disconnect via a transfer switch not a neutral bonding plug.
" If you connect to your home, you already have ground, even when the power is out. Grounds are not neutrals, neutrals carry the unbalance of the load back, grounds have zero current on them and are there for a fault only. This is why you only bond at the first means of disconnect ( your main panel)
If you are "portable", then you need to bond." Correct, that is per the NEC, but here lies the issue >Eco flow will not let you bond their neutral, so how could you ever be code compliant?

If portable and not connecting to house panel where the N-G bond is done , simply create a generator bond plug. Just a couple dollars.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

It's a portable unit, in a plastic case. It doesn't need to be bonded, unless it's connected to the house panel. In that case, the house bond takes care of it.
(Assuming that the person doing the connection is qualified to do it correctly)

Tim
This user is connecting their battery/inverter unit to the furnace. That is the problem, the Eco flow peeps will not let you bond their neutral.
If you are suggesting it is a SDS then that is entirely different issue and a seperate ground system would be required, but again, Eco flow would not let you bond their neutral so a SDS would not be possible

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

If portable and not connecting to house panel where the N-G bond is done , simply create a generator bond plug. Just a couple dollars.

customers we deal with are using a transfer switch so it is connected to the house

 

[ChrisG]

customers we deal with are using a transfer switch so it is connected to the house

Cool, so you don't want the bond for that use case.

 

[timselectric]

Tim
This user is connecting their battery/inverter unit to the furnace. That is the problem, the Eco flow peeps will not let you bond their neutral.
If you are suggesting it is a SDS then that is entirely different issue and a seperate ground system would be required, but again, Eco flow would not let you bond their neutral so a SDS would not be possible

It's not a separately derived system.
It's a stand alone portable system.
If the furnace won't run without a bonded neutral.
You can either bond it, or use something else to power the furnace. If the Eco Flow has a problem with being bonded. Bond it externally. And don't connect to the Eco Flows ground.
The furnace and Eco Flow will both be satisfied.

 

[timselectric]

customers we deal with are using a transfer switch so it is connected to the house

Simple
Just don't connect the Eco Flows ground.

Edit: but, it can't be used as a UPS in this configuration.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

Cool, so you don't want the bond for that use case.

in many cases the furnace or dryer and we have seen microwaves will not run unless the neutral is bonded ( not the ground)

 

[ChrisG]

in many cases the furnace or dryer and we have seen microwaves will not run unless the neutral is bonded ( not the ground)

Above you said you were using a transfer switch, I assume like a Reliance Controls for example. In those cases the bond is still happening in the main panel...only change is the L1/L2.

 

[zanydroid]

EDIT (Response to #9, which is what #10 is saying too)
Yes, that is true (EDIT: the handful of appliances getting cross without a N-G bond, that is the canonical set i think), but isn't N-G bond happening in the main panel still? Unless you are using a neutral switching transfer switch.

 

[EZ Generator Switch]

It's not a separately derived system.
It's a stand alone portable system.
If the furnace won't run without a bonded neutral.
You can either bond it, or use something else to power the furnace. If the Eco Flow has a problem with being bonded. Bond it externally. And don't connect to the Eco Flows ground.
The furnace and Eco Flow will both be satisfied.

Tim
Its not a SDS agreed
It can't be a stand alone system if you need the neutral from another system to run equipment
you said>>

If the Eco Flow has a problem with being bonded. Bond it externally.

Eco flow will not let you bond their "neutral" what are you bonding externally?

 

[zanydroid]

I think you misunderstood their e-mail. If I read their portion of the text from your first post I don't see any mention that neutral bond is prohibited. In large part I don't agree with your point-by-point diagramming/interpretation of their resopnse.

In fact by my reading there are several sentences/portions of sentences that imply they want you to bond externally...

 

[zanydroid]

Ask Ecoflow to draw a picture so that there is less potential for miscommunications due to poorly written english on their part or ambiguous interpretation on whoever receives their english.

 

[timselectric]

Tim
Its not a SDS agreed
It can't be a stand alone system if you need the neutral from another system to run equipment
you said>>

Eco flow will not let you bond their "neutral" what are you bonding externally?

The problem with bonding the Eco Flows neutral output. Is if the output and input neutral are both bonded. (This will damage the AC charger)
You can bond the output neutral, externally. (Not using the output ground connection)
As long as the AC input isn't being used. (As in a UPS situation)
I believe that the damage occurs when the input and output neutral are connected together. (Both bonded)
Bonding only one or the other, is not a problem.

I Believe Will has a video of his being damage from the double bond. If I remember correctly.

 

[zanydroid]

I feel like bonding input and output of anything should give some serious spider sense tingles to people...

What was the root cause for the damage in this case?

 

[timselectric]

It wasn't easy, but I found the video.

 

[zanydroid]

Thanks for the video. I suspect the N-G behavior / quirks will be different from model to model.

Well, I guess at the price tier that EcoFlow is targeting maybe we can conclude that there won't be N-G relay (either programmable or fixed behavior).

 

[timselectric]

Probably not