How to power your home from an EV with V2L - WATTever
Here's how you can power your home from an EV with V2L using today's technology. We put together a solution at our place to prove it works.
wattever.com.au
Powering your house from a V2L-capable EV
- Thread starter fafrd
- Start date
wattever.com.au
"Works" would need a very narrow set of use cases to be accurate in this case. Yes, you can provide "up to 1.9kW", but in the context of normal house loads that's tiny. It works in a pinch to keep your fridge online, but it's not a real solution to home energy storage. It's a feature that primarily exists for camping-like use cases.
I believe that was the goal - backup generator replacement for a few critical loads.
Did they say it was?
I’ll let your sentence since you used the word ‘exists’ and ‘camping-like’ is the primary use-case behind the existence of V2L.
But is can provide a very-capable alternative to a modestly-powered home generator for use during a power outage.
It can also be used to convert any V2L-capable EV into an extended -capacity battery for a DC-coupled hybrid inverter system.
Charge your V2L-capable EV up during the day using excess AC-coupled solar energy.
Connect your V2L output to a Chargeverter to prevent your house battery from draining overnight.
There is obviously a sacrifice in efficiency, but it’s a simple way to keep your house battery from shutting everything down overnight on low-production days (as long as your average overnight load is less than the power capacity of your V2L port…
Just trying to clarify what V2L is capable of, and what it's clearly not.
If your goal is to keep the fridge online, but don't care about HVAC, sump pumps, using a hair dryer, or running the microwave while also doing that. It will work.
The key point is that it can power a 120V critical load (singular), but will struggle with critical loads (plural).
If the goal is to "power your home" or provide a "very-capable alternative to a modestly-powered home generator", that's where I think the claims are exaggerated. The cheapest gasoline generator at Home Depot is $245.99, it can do 4kW peak / 3.5kW continuous. V2L is 1.9kW peak / 1.5-1.6kW continuous.
If your goal is to keep the fridge online, but don't care about HVAC, sump pumps, using a hair dryer, or running the microwave while also doing that. It will work.
The key point is that it can power a 120V critical load (singular), but will struggle with critical loads (plural).
If the goal is to "power your home" or provide a "very-capable alternative to a modestly-powered home generator", that's where I think the claims are exaggerated. The cheapest gasoline generator at Home Depot is $245.99, it can do 4kW peak / 3.5kW continuous. V2L is 1.9kW peak / 1.5-1.6kW continuous.
Which is probably the vast majority of EV owners, no?
I agree it would have been better if they were more clear that the ‘modest’ power level available would only be enough to power the fridge, the lights, the internet, and possibly the TV…
My dual-fuel Home Depot generator has 1.4kW on gas and only 1.1kW on propane.
Obviously, anybody getting into backup power needs to understand their peak and continuous demand.
When the highest priority is keeping the fridge running during rare a week-long outage, it’s a viable alternative to firing up a modestly-powered (by my definition) generator.
We should also get 240VAC V2L eventually, and that will double the available power level.
But for anyone investing in a proper backup inverter and a house-battery, the hot set up is to power a battery charger from the V2L port on the EV. As long as average consumption is below V2L power limit, that allows the EV battery capacity to power the inverter for a greatly extended timeframe (at very modest incremental cost).
Yep, you can certainly buy ICE generators that are also not suitable as home backup solutions. I wouldn't use a 3.5kW generator for that either. I mentioned it because you can get 2x the solution for $245.99. The Hyundai V2L adapter is $259.99.
The key phrase here is "below the V2L power limit". Given that power limit, using phrases like "power your home" are disingenuous. Unless your home is a box with a mini-fridge and an induction hotplate; only used on low.
Honest alternatives are more like "power your fridge", "power your freezer", or "use your microwave" while the power is out. Just don't try to do more than one of those at the same time
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Put another way, it can definitely work in a pinch to literally keep the lights on for a long time. Just don't ask it to power more than 1.5kW (1 standard 120V circuit). The fridge, microwave, HVAC blower, sump pumps, etc are all on dedicated circuits for a reason. My sump pumps are on multiple 20A circuits, so V2L wouldn't work for me, to just do that.
The key phrase here is "below the V2L power limit". Given that power limit, using phrases like "power your home" are disingenuous. Unless your home is a box with a mini-fridge and an induction hotplate; only used on low.
Honest alternatives are more like "power your fridge", "power your freezer", or "use your microwave" while the power is out. Just don't try to do more than one of those at the same time
.Put another way, it can definitely work in a pinch to literally keep the lights on for a long time. Just don't ask it to power more than 1.5kW (1 standard 120V circuit). The fridge, microwave, HVAC blower, sump pumps, etc are all on dedicated circuits for a reason. My sump pumps are on multiple 20A circuits, so V2L wouldn't work for me, to just do that.
Agreed.Yep, you can certainly buy ICE generators that are also not suitable as home backup solutions. I wouldn't use a 3.5kW generator for that either. I mentioned it because you can get 2x the solution for $245.99. The Hyundai V2L adapter is $259.99.
The key phrase here is "below the V2L power limit". Given that power limit, using phrases like "power your home" are disingenuous. Unless your home is a box with a mini-fridge and an induction hotplate; only used on low.
Honest alternatives are more like "power your fridge", "power your freezer", or "use your microwave" while the power is out. Just don't try to do more than one of those at the same time
Put another way, it can definitely work in a pinch to literally keep the lights on for a long time. Just don't ask it to power more than 1.5kW (1 standard 120V circuit). The fridge, microwave, HVAC blower, sump pumps, etc are all on dedicated circuits for a reason. My sump pumps are on multiple 20A circuits, so V2L wouldn't work for me, to just do that.
I have a rather practical question, I have my PV+Hybrid inverter+battery setup and I was wondering where would be the best to connect the EV to supply power to the system. My inverter (DEYE sun 8k) has configurable generator input, so I thought that would be the best to connect the EV as secondary supply. In this case, all the load would be supplied from the storage battery, and the car would only top up the storage battery, when the SOC dropped.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
Can the generator turn on while you have grid connection? My default assumption without scrutinizing the hardware would be, no, because usually the AC ports are either all bridged, or one disconnected.
With the hardware available in the U.S. we would use a chargeverter to achieve this on hardware that does not allow generator and grid to run at the same time. Check the Chargenectifier thread for some other options.
yabert
Solar Enthusiast
to me there is 4 possibilities:
1-Easy low power: 12V to 120V or 240V inverter plug to the generator 120 or 240V input. 12V EV battery to generator input.
2-Not so easy: Use proper DC-DC converter connect to the 12V battery of the EV to charge the house 48V battery.
3-Potentially mortal: If your EV have a 400V battery, connect directly a 400V output of your EV to a MPPT input of the inverter.
4-Super complex: Use the DC port (CCS or Tesla) of your EV to feed a MPPT input of your inverter.
All this is at your own risk. You can brick your EV or worst.
Personally, I did #3 with my Bolt EV. I used the HVAC compressor 400V output to feed my inverter MPPT.
360V DC input split phase 120V/240V AC inverter
very interesting indeed thank you. The GWxxxxA-BP checks a lot of boxes: grid-tie capable, high voltage DC (~450vdc), USA split-phase AC, AC-coupling with frequency-shifting, waiting for price and delivery quote. Please let us know what you find out!
diysolarforum.com
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
to me there is 4 possibilities:
1-Easy low power: 12V to 120V or 240V inverter plug to the generator 120 or 240V input. 12V EV battery to generator input.
2-Not so easy: Use proper DC-DC converter connect to the 12V battery of the EV to charge the house 48V battery.
3-Potentially mortal: If your EV have a 400V battery, connect directly a 400V output of your EV to a MPPT input of the inverter.
4-Super complex: Use the DC port (CCS or Tesla) of your EV to feed a MPPT input of your inverter.
All this is at your own risk. You can brick your EV or worst.
Personally, I did #3 with my Bolt EV. I used the HVAC compressor 400V output to feed my inverter MPPT.
360V DC input split phase 120V/240V AC inverter
very interesting indeed thank you. The GWxxxxA-BP checks a lot of boxes: grid-tie capable, high voltage DC (~450vdc), USA split-phase AC, AC-coupling with frequency-shifting, waiting for price and delivery quote. Please let us know what you find out!
I read the question as, how do you connect a V2L EV. Basically easy mode compared to your list.
3 and 4 require research into how much current bean counting a given EV does. I've seen some rumblings about how, EG, Teslas are super paranoid about current disappearing into the ether. You can still pull off the accessory port though, I doubt there's any incentive for them to police that.
yabert
Solar Enthusiast
Right, super easy so:
5-Connect you EVSE to the generator input et voilà. EVSE or V2L adaptor in case of Hyunday/Kia EV.
You are fully right. And the fuse in most Tesla is a pyrofuse, so if the EV detect something wrong it can blow his fuse ?
You end with a brick.
Clearly, V2L is not so easy when the EV isn't build for that.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,711
I am kind of dragging my feet a bit when it comes to getting an EV. One of the features I am waiting for is a decent bidirectional charger connection. I already have a 36 KWH home storage battery, but even small EVs are sporting 60 KWHs or more. It sure would be nice to be able to use a chunk of that for covering loads in your home.
The Ford Lightning 7 KW inverter is a decent step. I could have that power a Chargeverter to push 5,000 watts into my battery bank. But I don't want a pickup truck.
The Ford Lightning 7 KW inverter is a decent step. I could have that power a Chargeverter to push 5,000 watts into my battery bank. But I don't want a pickup truck.
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
2024/2025 might be a good time to hop in.
- EV used prices will probably go down with what feels like the demand growth taking a breather
- Lithium prices are going down
- There's supposed to be V2X in 2025
- Charging networks will get a lot better with Tesla opening up to other vendors and a few manufacturers adding new networks to hedge their bets
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
I expect Ford will add this feature to all their EV's soon enough, so you will not need to get the pickup to get this feature.
Another reason to hold off for a few more years: https://apnews.com/article/electric...les-charging-eed9c3b8d86c1f7708b7c6e2d4dbf55e
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
That 80% problems roll up is useless and misleading. Little more than clickbait IMO.
It rolls together showstoppers like power train and charging with stuff like fit and finish.
It needs to be broken out into multiple categories before it is actionable.
That said, I can buy that the supply chain for EV repair modules isn’t as robust as with regular car parts.
It rolls together showstoppers like power train and charging with stuff like fit and finish.
It needs to be broken out into multiple categories before it is actionable.
That said, I can buy that the supply chain for EV repair modules isn’t as robust as with regular car parts.
Agree all around.
The bottom line is that EVs are a less mature technology than ICE and that’s a further reason to hold off if there is no urgency.
In my understanding, the generator can be on while the system is connected to the grid, as long it is set to DC coupled (there are options for AC or DC). Then it will charge the battery (or supply the battery DC voltage to load), which would be the goal, while I have low consumption. Then the inverter capable to supply 8kW from DC without a hitch.
My Ev can supply V2L 2kW (on paper) however I saw tests with 7kW load when it tripped. I presume they using the same hardware which is the AC charger, which is 6.6kW max. In addition, our domestic load is barely passing 5kW at any part of the day, and definitely not passing my inverter maximum DC output.
