Problems with Eg4 6500ex buyer beware.

[Mattb4]

Not exactly. The only way to power batteries of an off grid inverter system without PV is using AC input. This can be from the grid or generator, but never connected to the inverter's AC output. I supposed these AIO off-grid units can best be described as SCC/Converter/Inverters. I use my Growatt 12k this way. I don't have solar.

But of course. I stated that the inverter can become a charger using AC in as supply (the source of the AC in supply can be various). It was my last sentence of the post. If you really wanted to get strange you could hook up a charger to the inverters AC output and charge the batteries. (almost perpetual motion if you leave out all conversion losses )

 

[PreppenWolf]

If you want your batteries charged and never in use, why not just turn off the batteries with a diconnect? Then the system will be forced to only toggle?

 

[Adam De Lay]

Can you set your system to SUB and let it run during sunrise and sunset, with batteries at full charge, without having a problem?

Can’t say for sure. I don’t use my inverters solely as a UPS. I have the power and I want to use it to get off the grid, so as soon as I have enough power, my inverters automatically switch over to SBU and I run off battery till my lower end SOC is triggered, then back to SUB. I also don’t charge from the grid unless I know a big storm is coming in. I get the power from solar.

I know this past winter I’ve run in SUB for days at a time, but not with a full battery.

 

[timselectric]

Ok, so now I understand the problem.
And I think it's definitely a firmware issue. It shouldn't be switching anything back and forth. When the sun comes up, it should just add to the output. And gradually take over the loads, as production increases. The only time I have seen this switching back and forth has been in solar first mode. And it's so annoying that I couldn't imagine a scenario where I would ever use it.

 

[Tom Funchess]

If you want your batteries charged and never in use, why not just turn off the batteries with a diconnect? Then the system will be forced to only toggle?

I can't operate the battery disconnect when I am 425 miles from where the system is located. My system is on my farm in Mississippi and I travel for days at a time to Houston or Midland, Texas for work.

I need to be able to manage the system remotely, have it robust enough to provide power 100% of the time without having to babysit it, or do something else.

What else? Upgrade inverters, get more batteries, etc., or maybe just get a generator with a 200A whole-house automatic transfer switch and a big propane tank for critical loads?

 

[Zwy]

Ok, so now I understand the problem.
And I think it's definitely a firmware issue. It shouldn't be switching anything back and forth. When the sun comes up, it should just add to the output. And gradually take over the loads, as production increases. The only time I have seen this switching back and forth has been in solar first mode. And it's so annoying that I couldn't imagine a scenario where I would ever use it.

Tim, I believe his problem is more likely related to using battery communication. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/r...-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/post-705788

You of course wouldn't see the problem he describes as you don't use battery communication. Another example of battery communication is a waste of time and resources and a source of frustration.

 

[timselectric]

Tim, I believe his problem is more likely related to using battery communication. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/r...-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/post-705788

You of course wouldn't see the problem he describes as you don't use battery communication. Another example of battery communication is a waste of time and resources and a source of frustration.

Battery communications shouldn't force mode switching. It only controls charging parameters.
Unless I am still missing what the issue is.

 

[timselectric]

Tim, I believe his problem is more likely related to using battery communication. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/r...-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/post-705788

You of course wouldn't see the problem he describes as you don't use battery communication. Another example of battery communication is a waste of time and resources and a source of frustration.

Ok well, I have no idea what is screwed up. lol
Just glad that I didn't buy any of them.
It appears that they took a perfectly good unit and messed it up.
Good luck everyone.

 

[nc73]

Ok well, I have no idea what is screwed up. lol
Just glad that I didn't buy any of them.
It appears that they took a perfectly good unit and messed it up.
Good luck everyone.

Who needs battery communications anyhow. I saved thousands that way.

 

[timselectric]

Who needs battery communications anyhow. I saved thousands that way.

It's good for beginners who don't know LFP batteries. I used it for a while at the beginning.

 

[SolarScott]

Tim, I believe his problem is more likely related to using battery communication. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/r...-lights-flickering-firmware.54956/post-705788

You of course wouldn't see the problem he describes as you don't use battery communication. Another example of battery communication is a waste of time and resources and a source of frustration.

Pardon my ignorance, I am really a newbie, but if you disconnect the battery com cable, will the inverter charging settings still work through current detection of the DC positive incoming from the batteries? Or does the battery BMS control things. I don't want to shorten the life of my lifepower batteries.

 

[timselectric]

Pardon my ignorance, I am really a newbie, but if you disconnect the battery com cable, will the inverter charging settings still work through current detection of the DC positive incoming from the batteries? Or does the battery BMS control things. I don't want to shorten the life of my lifepower batteries.

BMS communications gives the BMS control of the charging settings. The other option is to adjust the settings to your own preferences.

 

[Zwy]

Battery communications shouldn't force mode switching. It only controls charging parameters.
Unless I am still missing what the issue is.

Battery communication will control charging based upon SOC and other inputs from the battery to the inverter.

 

[timselectric]

Battery communication will control charging based upon SOC and other inputs from the battery to the inverter.

Right
So I don't think it would have anything to do with the issue described. It has to be a glitch in the firmware.
Other Voltronics units don't have this problem.
But with technology, anything is possible. So, who knows.

 

[Zwy]

Pardon my ignorance, I am really a newbie, but if you disconnect the battery com cable, will the inverter charging settings still work through current detection of the DC positive incoming from the batteries? Or does the battery BMS control things. I don't want to shorten the life of my lifepower batteries.

The inverter will charge according to the voltage settings you input. No different than building a DIY battery bank and controlling charging parameters under USE and the related settings.

Using the communication feature, the BMS provides input for charging parameters. You don't have the option to select your own defined operation under some settings.

 

[Zwy]

Right
So I don't think it would have anything to do with the issue described. It has to be a glitch in the firmware.
Other Voltronics units don't have this problem.
But with technology, anything is possible. So, who knows.

In the manual, page 41 setting 05. "If using EG4 batteries you will use this battery type for BMS communications. If this battery type is selected settings 2,26, 27 will be configured by the BMS."

It also affects settings 11, 12, and 13.

 

[Tom Funchess]

It also affects settings 11, 12, and 13.

The main change is in Settings 12 and 13, where instead of setting the desired battery voltage targets where you want to switch from SBU mode to SUB mode and then back from SUB mode to SBU mode, you set it in % SOC instead of V.

I may not use the EG4 setting with battery communications forever, but while I am testing the system and trying to figure out how best to run it, I know that if I set the SOC target in Setting 12 to 80%, for example, as long as the batteries are above that and the inverters are running off batteries, all 4 lights on the batteries are lit. I suspect the same would hold true with SOC targets of 60% (3-solid lights), 40% (2-solid lights), or 20% (1-solid light), but I haven't verified it.

As soon as the SOC drops below 80%, the 4th light on the batteries will start flashing as the system switches to SUB mode and starts charging the batteries from Utility power. As soon as the SOC hits 80% again in just a few minutes, on its way to whatever value that is set in Setting 13, the fourth light on the battery becomes solid. It is a quick visual cross check for me to see that things are doing what they are supposed to do without having to monitor the status on the inverter or on Solar Assistant.

 

[Texican]

Are you using this part of solar assistant to control sbu/sub switching ?

 

[Tom Funchess]

Are you using this part of solar assistant to control sbu/sub switching ?

View attachment 134603

Yes. I have tried to it in the past, but it wasn't intuitive as to how it worked. I am now really trying to figure out exactly how it works as I have my system configured (Batteries in EG4/USE and running comms cable to inverter).

If I can use it to switch between SBU and SUB modes I can modify how it runs to avoid system upsets while running in SUB mode with batteries fully charged when the sun comes up (also while trying to maintain the batteries at a high SOC in anticipation of utility power outages).

Last night I set it to switch from SBU to SUB at 90% at 8:00 PM and at 2:00 AM, then back to SBU at 5% higher (95%). After seeing it go through first the cycle successfully three times starting just before 8:00 PM (I am still not clear on exactly what the time has to do with this), I deactivated the program and changed it to switch from SBU to SUB at 80% at 2:00 AM, and again to switch back to SBU at 5% higher (85%).

I ran one 1500W space heater, on at all times, to make the load part of the test predictable.

This morning I saw that it had gone from SBU to SUB 4 times overnight, with the last cycle being caught in the SUB mode when the sun came up and batteries being charged at 60A on the way from 80% to 85% SOC. The batteries were at 84% at the time of the switch from SUB to SBU at the first hint of power coming from PV and nothing bad happened.

The PV output was intermittent for about 30-minutes, and the system cycled between SBU and SUB one more time. I let the SOC reach 85% and watched the switch back to SBU as the sun came up and the SOC decreased back to 84% while running on batteries with low PV. At that point, SBU used Utility power to maintain the SOC at 84% with Setting 16 set to SNU.

When the sun came up and PV output exceeded the loads, Grid power went to 0W, Solar covered the load and started charging the battery. At 8:50 AM, solar is covering everything and batteries are at 88% SOC on the way to 100%.

The benefit to me to make this work as a workaround to running in SUB mode all the tike, is that I can manage the whole process remotely with Solar Assistant.

 

[Texican]

the function seems to work good for me. but as you can see I have it set the same for all hours.
switching to sub at 20 % and back to sbu at 30%
I would think about at least a 5% difference be used to keep from switching back and forth