diy solar

diy solar

Questions from a newbie

My suggestion is go for something like this:

About $1500 for a 6000 watt inverter. $0.25 per watt

About $1250.00 for 5 KWHs. $250.00 per KWH.

4 * 400-450 watt panels

It will be on standby and automatically switch over to batteries if you lose power. It does 240 volt with one unit and you could power a normal electrical panel with this. Just hook up the battery and PV and connect to a 60 amp breaker in your grid panel. Then add a small sub panel and power it with the loads output from the inverter. You can then move the loads you want from your main panel to the protected panel. This would be a serious system that you could add to without having to upgrade the inverter.


If you go with multiple12 volt batteries and a 2000 watt inverter, you will spend a ton of money on cables. 12 volt batteries means 4 times more DC amps for the same power output. A 2000 watt inverter will only supply 120 volts. You will end up running extension cords around. You can't power a house panel with this. You will wind up upgrading all of this in 1 year. Get one good 48 volt battery, and a decent 120/240 AIO inverter.
So that looks 3500 to 4500 once it's all said and done is that right
 
I encourage you to go to the resources section of this forum and use the resources created by members to figure out what you’ll need.

If you put in a humongous inverter it will eat much power while it’s on and not inverting, so you’ll need a couple extra panels for that.

A few hours reading, and maybe using the spreadsheet, will be well worth the time.
 
As can be seen by the comments so far, most here expect that people will need and/or be able to engineer their own system, which begins with some basic math to calculate one's needs. But for a total newbie, even this math can be daunting.

It is a little complicated, but I think it's not so difficult if taken one step at a time. Your freezer is the biggest question here. Older freezers and refrigerators consumed considerably more power than the newer ones: efficiency has dramatically improved, and the newer inverter-style models use much less power. But the same freezer in two different homes might use different amounts of power, too....how often is it opened? is it in a cool basement room or an air-conditioned environment...or is it in a hot corner of the garage? Etc.

This might be a tad high for a new model, since the cooling will not need to run continuously (hopefully), but assuming an average of 300 watts for the freezer, then let's add 50 watts for the cameras, and 6 hours/day of 200 watts for the TV (average of 50 watts per hour for 24-hour period), we are at about 400 watts of steady usage. The motor on the freezer will demand much higher power for a few seconds when it starts, which is why the inverter needs to be rated well above the average usage level, and let's assume some inefficiencies and a few minor draws (LED lights, phones, etc.)--so we'll do the math on 500 watts per hour. With 24-hours, that's 500 x 24 = 12,000 Wh for one day. A 15-kilowatt Lithium Ion battery (LiFePO4) would serve you nicely, and I would recommend at least a 2000-watt inverter to accommodate those power surges from motors and to provide a little more for some future needs. If you have the budget, a 3000- to 5000-watt inverter might be worthwhile if you think you might use it in the future for larger loads, such as air conditioning, or for a welder, a well pump, etc.

I have run a 24-volt battery system with a 2000-watt inverter successfully, and a second 24V/3000W system did great as well, but knowing what I know now, I would prefer a 48-volt system for any type of whole-house setup. The 48-volt systems are more efficient, and are more scalable if expansions are needed in the future.

If running on "flooded" lead acid batteries, you would want at least four 300 AH batteries connected in series for a 48-volt system. But for long-term usage, skip the lead and go with LiFePO4. While they appear more expensive at the outset, they are expected to be much cheaper after a few years when the lead-acid batteries will have failed and need replacement while the LiFePO4 batteries continue running fine. Besides, the lead-acid batteries are much less safe, producing toxic H2S (hydrogen sulfide) gas while charging, and requiring ongoing maintenance by the addition of distilled water to replace depleted levels in each of the battery cells (I was adding over a gallon of water at least twice a year with very large deep-cycle batteries--with smaller batteries the frequency might need to be every three-four months).

Learn about LiFePO4 and all of its advantages and I think you will also prefer it.
 
As can be seen by the comments so far, most here expect that people will need and/or be able to engineer their own system, which begins with some basic math to calculate one's needs. But for a total newbie, even this math can be daunting.

It is a little complicated, but I think it's not so difficult if taken one step at a time. Your freezer is the biggest question here. Older freezers and refrigerators consumed considerably more power than the newer ones: efficiency has dramatically improved, and the newer inverter-style models use much less power. But the same freezer in two different homes might use different amounts of power, too....how often is it opened? is it in a cool basement room or an air-conditioned environment...or is it in a hot corner of the garage? Etc.

This might be a tad high for a new model, since the cooling will not need to run continuously (hopefully), but assuming an average of 300 watts for the freezer, then let's add 50 watts for the cameras, and 6 hours/day of 200 watts for the TV (average of 50 watts per hour for 24-hour period), we are at about 400 watts of steady usage. The motor on the freezer will demand much higher power for a few seconds when it starts, which is why the inverter needs to be rated well above the average usage level, and let's assume some inefficiencies and a few minor draws (LED lights, phones, etc.)--so we'll do the math on 500 watts per hour. With 24-hours, that's 500 x 24 = 12,000 Wh for one day. A 15-kilowatt Lithium Ion battery (LiFePO4) would serve you nicely, and I would recommend at least a 2000-watt inverter to accommodate those power surges from motors and to provide a little more for some future needs. If you have the budget, a 3000- to 5000-watt inverter might be worthwhile if you think you might use it in the future for larger loads, such as air conditioning, or for a welder, a well pump, etc.

I have run a 24-volt battery system with a 2000-watt inverter successfully, and a second 24V/3000W system did great as well, but knowing what I know now, I would prefer a 48-volt system for any type of whole-house setup. The 48-volt systems are more efficient, and are more scalable if expansions are needed in the future.

If running on "flooded" lead acid batteries, you would want at least four 300 AH batteries connected in series for a 48-volt system. But for long-term usage, skip the lead and go with LiFePO4. While they appear more expensive at the outset, they are expected to be much cheaper after a few years when the lead-acid batteries will have failed and need replacement while the LiFePO4 batteries continue running fine. Besides, the lead-acid batteries are much less safe, producing toxic H2S (hydrogen sulfide) gas while charging, and requiring ongoing maintenance by the addition of distilled water to replace depleted levels in each of the battery cells (I was adding over a gallon of water at least twice a year with very large deep-cycle batteries--with smaller batteries the frequency might need to be every three-four months).

Learn about LiFePO4 and all of its advantages and I think you will also prefer it.
Man that was an amazing response and I will take it all to heart. So whats a ballpark estimate of what this would cost me
 
My suggestion is go for something like this:

About $1500 for a 6000 watt inverter. $0.25 per watt

About $1250.00 for 5 KWHs. $250.00 per KWH.

4 * 400-450 watt panels

It will be on standby and automatically switch over to batteries if you lose power. It does 240 volt with one unit and you could power a normal electrical panel with this. Just hook up the battery and PV and connect to a 60 amp breaker in your grid panel. Then add a small sub panel and power it with the loads output from the inverter. You can then move the loads you want from your main panel to the protected panel. This would be a serious system that you could add to without having to upgrade the inverter.


If you go with multiple12 volt batteries and a 2000 watt inverter, you will spend a ton of money on cables. 12 volt batteries means 4 times more DC amps for the same power output. A 2000 watt inverter will only supply 120 volts. You will end up running extension cords around. You can't power a house panel with this. You will wind up upgrading all of this in 1 year. Get one good 48 volt battery, and a decent 120/240 AIO inverter.
You are making a lot of assumptions about the current and future needs he will have.
 
As can be seen by the comments so far, most here expect that people will need and/or be able to engineer their own system, which begins with some basic math to calculate one's needs. But for a total newbie, even this math can be daunting.

It is a little complicated, but I think it's not so difficult if taken one step at a time. Your freezer is the biggest question here. Older freezers and refrigerators consumed considerably more power than the newer ones: efficiency has dramatically improved, and the newer inverter-style models use much less power. But the same freezer in two different homes might use different amounts of power, too....how often is it opened? is it in a cool basement room or an air-conditioned environment...or is it in a hot corner of the garage? Etc.

This might be a tad high for a new model, since the cooling will not need to run continuously (hopefully), but assuming an average of 300 watts for the freezer, then let's add 50 watts for the cameras, and 6 hours/day of 200 watts for the TV (average of 50 watts per hour for 24-hour period), we are at about 400 watts of steady usage. The motor on the freezer will demand much higher power for a few seconds when it starts, which is why the inverter needs to be rated well above the average usage level, and let's assume some inefficiencies and a few minor draws (LED lights, phones, etc.)--so we'll do the math on 500 watts per hour. With 24-hours, that's 500 x 24 = 12,000 Wh for one day. A 15-kilowatt Lithium Ion battery (LiFePO4) would serve you nicely, and I would recommend at least a 2000-watt inverter to accommodate those power surges from motors and to provide a little more for some future needs. If you have the budget, a 3000- to 5000-watt inverter might be worthwhile if you think you might use it in the future for larger loads, such as air conditioning, or for a welder, a well pump, etc.

I have run a 24-volt battery system with a 2000-watt inverter successfully, and a second 24V/3000W system did great as well, but knowing what I know now, I would prefer a 48-volt system for any type of whole-house setup. The 48-volt systems are more efficient, and are more scalable if expansions are needed in the future.

If running on "flooded" lead acid batteries, you would want at least four 300 AH batteries connected in series for a 48-volt system. But for long-term usage, skip the lead and go with LiFePO4. While they appear more expensive at the outset, they are expected to be much cheaper after a few years when the lead-acid batteries will have failed and need replacement while the LiFePO4 batteries continue running fine. Besides, the lead-acid batteries are much less safe, producing toxic H2S (hydrogen sulfide) gas while charging, and requiring ongoing maintenance by the addition of distilled water to replace depleted levels in each of the battery cells (I was adding over a gallon of water at least twice a year with very large deep-cycle batteries--with smaller batteries the frequency might need to be every three-four months).

Learn about LiFePO4 and all of its advantages and I think you will also prefer it.
So this is for a doomsday scenario so it would be in a unair conditioned house then. As for now and until then it is in my hot carport garage building. I'm not really needing it to last for decades but 5 to 10 years would be good. I wouldn't need to add on in the future, which I'm sure they all say that, but that's the plan. I found the energy guide for my freezer it says 220kwh a year. The TV would be on 24hrs a day along with all the cameras and nvr box. I'll be getting a led TV for energy efficiency. I would like to keep it as cheap as possible without being so cheap it would be unreliable
 
So this is for a doomsday scenario so it would be in a unair conditioned house then. As for now and until then it is in my hot carport garage building. I'm not really needing it to last for decades but 5 to 10 years would be good. I wouldn't need to add on in the future, which I'm sure they all say that, but that's the plan. I found the energy guide for my freezer it says 220kwh a year. The TV would be on 24hrs a day along with all the cameras and nvr box. I'll be getting a led TV for energy efficiency. I would like to keep it as cheap as possible without being so cheap it would be unreliable
So, at 220kWh a year, it equates to around 600Wh a day, about 1/2 my first estimate. 3kWh will last nearly a week without sun. With a pair of 200ish panels, and a good controller, you should be set with loads.

Now, EXACT loads are never what “they” estimate, especially if the freezer is in an unconditioned carport like you say.

Also, we aren’t calculating standby watts that are a 24/7 drain on the battery, or efficiency losses in the inversion process…

I plan to meet up with you, and see if I can help with actual calculations.
 
So this is for a doomsday scenario so it would be in a unair conditioned house then. As for now and until then it is in my hot carport garage building. I'm not really needing it to last for decades but 5 to 10 years would be good. I wouldn't need to add on in the future, which I'm sure they all say that, but that's the plan. I found the energy guide for my freezer it says 220kwh a year. The TV would be on 24hrs a day along with all the cameras and nvr box. I'll be getting a led TV for energy efficiency. I would like to keep it as cheap as possible without being so cheap it would be unreliable
The LiFePO4 batteries are supposed to be good for 6000+ cycles (discharges and charges), so if one were to cycle the batteries once each day, this should, in theory, last well over 15 years. By contrast, lead-acid batteries, if meticulously cared for, will usually need to be swapped out before hitting the 5-year mark. (How long does one last in your car?)

I would be suspicious that the 220kwh/year figure errs on the low side for the marketing benefit, but even if it were double that, it still comes well under the figure I had guessed. On the other hand, if your TV will run 24/7, it helps to counter that difference. To get a more definitive figure, an electric bill or two would be most helpful. The electric bill will show total kilowatt-hours used for the month--so if you have a bill to look at, you should be able to know at least what your usage has been. Of course, if you have not yet purchased some of these devices, their usage won't show up in your bill yet. In that case, we have to just make an educated guess. The inverter will use some power, too--different inverters will have different efficiencies. The HF (high frequency) inverters are supposed to be more efficient, but they do not work as well with motors (inductive loads), so I have purchased an LF (low frequency) inverter that is "toroidal," meaning it has a special donut-style transformer in it that is heavy and that helps it to provide good power for inductive loads (motors would include refrigerators/freezers, fans, pumps, washing machines, vacuums, etc.). The LF inverter may be slightly less efficient on power consumption, but if my motors last longer with it, to me it's well worth it.

In no case should you consider buying an inverter that is not "pure sine wave." The "modified sine wave" inverters may cause your electric drill and/or the inverter itself when running the drill to burn out--they will not work well at all with motors. PSW inverters used to be much more expensive, but nowadays their price is quite reasonable, and you should not skimp on this feature--pure sine wave is a must-have. Only a pure-sine-wave inverter will be compatible with a typical UPS (uninterrupted power supply) battery backup, because if the UPS detects a modified sine wave, it will switch to battery mode, and will not charge. I'm using a PSW inverter to power a UPS for my computer and this gives me an extra layer of protection.
 
So that looks 3500 to 4500 once it's all said and done is that right
Probably. I don't think the additional items are that much. It sounds like you have the panels covered.

Some wire, a small panel, a few breakers. You are going to need to put these panels some where. Maybe some money for racking.

I'm sure you could go cheaper and buy an inverter that is just big enough. Often the start up current on motors is 5-10 times the running amps. Ever see the lights dim when an AC unit starts? It's not unusual for them to draw 100 Amps plus when starting up. That's 24,000 watts instantaneously. You don't want to build this all out and find out the freezer trips the inverter offline every time it starts up.

EG4 has a smaller 3000 watt inverter for half the price. You could use that, but it only puts out 120 volts. You can put 120 volts on both legs of a panel. It works, but you can use a 240 volt breaker.
 
8.7cuft chest freezer at home drpot is listed as 218kWh/year, thats about 600Wh/day, or about 1/2 my estimate.
So, depending on model, and room temp where freezer is stored, you might get by with 1/2 the battery storage i guessed at.
Ok, you need to buy a kill-o-watt meter
Man I was hoping it would be easier than that

Consumer energy labels should give a fair estimate. You can look them up on line.
If you're in a hot climate of course consumption will be higher.
Not sure, but would guess temperature delta from freezer setpoint to ambient temperature would be proportionate to consumption.

Some chest freezers don't have defrost cycle. If it does, that's a several hundred watt heater. Mine run once every 12 hours. Seems to me a modification to open the heater circuit at night, or cut power to the freezer at night and let it coast, would reduce battery requirement.

Supervstech - do you have an idea of kWh consumed by defrost vs. kWh consumed by operation?
 
Probably. I don't think the additional items are that much. It sounds like you have the panels covered.

Some wire, a small panel, a few breakers. You are going to need to put these panels some where. Maybe some money for racking.

I'm sure you could go cheaper and buy an inverter that is just big enough. Often the start up current on motors is 5-10 times the running amps. Ever see the lights dim when an AC unit starts? It's not unusual for them to draw 100 Amps plus when starting up. That's 24,000 watts instantaneously. You don't want to build this all out and find out the freezer trips the inverter offline every time it starts up.

EG4 has a smaller 3000 watt inverter for half the price. You could use that, but it only puts out 120 volts. You can put 120 volts on both legs of a panel. It works, but you can use a 240 volt breaker.
Except you can’t put that 120 volt output on both legs and use a dual pole breaker to power a 240 volt appliance. Both hots would be in phase.
 
Consumer energy labels should give a fair estimate. You can look them up on line.
If you're in a hot climate of course consumption will be higher.
Not sure, but would guess temperature delta from freezer setpoint to ambient temperature would be proportionate to consumption.

Some chest freezers don't have defrost cycle. If it does, that's a several hundred watt heater. Mine run once every 12 hours. Seems to me a modification to open the heater circuit at night, or cut power to the freezer at night and let it coast, would reduce battery requirement.

Supervstech - do you have an idea of kWh consumed by defrost vs. kWh consumed by operation?
Most chest freezers don’t have defrost…
 
Back
Top