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Radiation Age and the prudent person

I live in Charlotte, NC, and there are several 200year old neighborhoods.
Some had coal delivery pits, and the topsoil is too toxic to grow edible plants.
Would that be a radiation issue as well?
I’m unsure; it’s tough because there’s background radiation and there are different varieties of coal and also burning styles all which can affect the effective rate of various species of pollution accumulating.

Definitely not trying to say coal is worse than uranium. Paying awareness that it’s low grade radioactive.

Closer comparison might be like leaded fuel?

Leaded fuel was burned and exhausted to atmosphere, or so I heard ?

 
I think we should bulldoze Silicon Valley and plant orchards. Same for the "Inland Empire". That would help with carbon sequestration, as well as reducing power consumption in the latter case.
Not sure if you know the history of the Silicon Valley area but it used to be covered in fruit trees/orchards, crops,…. My wife’s grandmother when she was a college girl at San Jose State used to take the trolley car up through the grain fields to see the boys at the University of Santa Clara. The last standing orchard I recall was at HWY 101 and Orchard Parkway area just north of the airport. No one took care of the trees but every year the trees produced fruit. People from around the area including the homeless living along the Guadalupe River used to pick the fruit. However, since it was a potential safety issue, the owners dozed out the trees.
 
New news on my local nuclear power plant. In the OP you might recall it got an operating extension from the NRC... the NRC has reversed itself:

...approval of Florida Power & Light's application for a 20-year subsequent licence extension for the Turkey Point units was the first instance of the US regulator authorising reactors to operate for up to 80 years, to 2052 for unit 3 and 2053 for unit 4.... the commissioners' latest decision, issued on 24 February, now directs NRC staff to modify the licence expiration dates for Turkey Point 3 and 4 to 2032 and 2033 respectively....

What's a bit scary is that it wasn't rescinded upon any new revelations, this is made clear from a dissenting statement:
..In his dissent, Commissioner Wright explained that he disagrees with the rationale reversing CLI-20-03... The majority’s decision is arbitrary because my colleagues do not base the reversal on any new information or arguments beyond what we previously considered and rejected in issuing CLI-20-03.

So when it got approved they had already known about the study saying the area would be more prone to flooding and had rejected it. I think a lot of people were questioning the wisdom of that given 2005 FEMA maps have the reactor in a VE flood zone (1% chance per year and susceptible to waves, possibly the new maps have altered the BFE) near a very populated city. Wouldn't be surprised if FPL submits another extension before the expiration date.
 
TL;DR: How could one sensibly prep if they live close to an aging nuclear reactor? Thinking about getting a cheap detector for a cell phone, thoughts?

I live within a 30 mile radius of a power source that back in the '50s promised energy that would be too cheap to measure. Not only did that not happen, but the NRC just re-upped the operating license for another 20 years on this 60-year-old plant. If it's not the oldest, it's probably in the top ten. Combine that with other recent events and it's time to have a plan. What sort of plan?

Potassium Iodine?
As I understand it, this is really only good in some scenarios and that type of exposure is over in a week. I'm not sure I'd be smart enough to know when to take them, what the dosage should be, or that the government would be timely/truthful about it (I could see them not advising people to take them because they know most won't have them and they wouldn't want to start a panic - similar to their initial masks aren't needed Covid advice so as to not cause a shortage of masks for hospital workers).

An App for that
Last week I loaded the GammaPix app on my cell phone. This app requires you to "black" out your camera, then it counts up the white dots that represent the gamma ray hits. It's not very accurate, but studies showed for first-responders that it was good enough to let them know if they were in a hot spot. I loaded it on my phone a week ago and forgot about it. The other day I got a radiation alert telling me to move to safety.

It was obviously a light leak through my pants, but I had forgotten about the app and didn't realize it was running. But that's what got me to thinking - if there was a real emergency, what should I do?

Geiger Counters
There are a number of these and prices are all over the place. Generally, you get what you pay for. There are ~$30 devices
that plug into the earphone jack of your cell phone (video). I believe these are photodiodes, but not sure. The specs say +/- 30%, so not all that accurate, but that's probably good enough to let you know if it's dangerous.


Anyway, figured first-responders and smart people might have some ideas for you what you're average Joe could do.

Update: Link to thread summary

As a prepper and science nerd, I think I can help you.

There is absolutely NOTHING you can do about fallout from a nuclear power plant, except to run away. The fallout is permanent and will render the area uninhabitable in human time frames. On the upside, most of the fallout is also low level stuff so you're probably not going to die next week because it took you a few hours to pack up and leave the area.

Power plant fallout releases its energy slowly, but does so over stupidly long time frames measured in geological numbers. Nuclear weapon fallout is mostly very short lived and releases its energy quickly, and that's a problem because if you get caught in it and can't find immediate shelter, you're not going to survive.

As for radiation detectors.. You don't need to worry about alpha and beta, its only neutron and gamma that are of any real concern, and of those two, neutron radiation is basically unstoppable by any practical means.

To stop gamma radiation, you need mass.. Doesn't matter if the mass is lead, concrete, or pillow feathers, you need about 250 lbs per square foot between you and the source in order to provide any reasonable level of shielding, and if you plan to bee there for a while, then 350 lbs is preferable.

Gamma radiation can't be practically stopped, but it can be attenuated to such low levels as to render it inconsequential. Each material has what is known as a "Halving Thickness". What this means is that one having thickness will cut your exposure by half. So if the environment is showering you with 100 rems per hour, a single halving thickness of any given material will cut that 100 rems to 50 rems per hour. A second layer halving thickness will cut the 50 to 25, and a third will cut it from 25 to 12.5, and so on.

For fallout protection from nuclear war, FEMA's minimum requirements are PF40, which works out to roughly 5.5 halving thicknesses.

The halving thickness of Concrete is 2.4 inches, for lead it is 0.4 inches, for sand is is between 2.8 and 3 (depending on the type of sand).

So a 12 inch concrete room will cut your radiation dose by approximately 40 times. For long term protection, like a place you can't leave, you'd want a PF1000 (10 halving thickness layers)

Of course, for the low level nuclear fallout from a power plant, you don't even really need to worry about shielding, you just need to run away, preferably up-wind.

As for Geiger Counters, most of them are absolute garbage.. there are no regulations for selling these devices so there are a lot of scams out there.
If you're looking for a relatively cheap solution, you could pick up a GQ Electronics GMC-500, which is made in Oregon or Washington state I think. At least its made in the USA.

The GQ GMC-500 is accurate enough at radiation levels you're concerned with, but it fails at giving accurate readings for higher levels. Of course, if you encounter higher levels, you need to get out of there anyhow so it really doesn't matter. The GMC-500 is about $175 and I just got done testing one of them. Nice little unit, takes an 18650 replaceable battery and runs for a very long time on it.. like a week or more.. It has an upper limit of just 42 mSv (42,000 uSv.), but if you see anything even approaching 100 uSv, you need to get the heck out of there.. Take a couple hours, pack up everything you can carry and either find shelter or leave the area.

If you want a quality Geiger counter, you need to spend at least $500... and preferably about $800. But these kinds of meters are designed to be accurate at both high level and low level radiation.. and if you're concern is just "run or stay", then anything that's relatively accurate at low levels will work.

If you're 30 miles away from the plant, the next thing to do is to assess your statistical probability of being in a relatively high fallout area under a worst-case scenario. If you're normally upwind, then your probability drops considerably.

It would be a good idea to create an evacuation plan for your family.. one that assumes you can never return. Figure out what things you have that are important or highly valuable, and make a list so you don't forget them. If there's a serious accident at the plant, you will have time to pack up a trailer or the pickup truck. Even under the worst case, being 30 miles away means you're most likely going to have several hours before you get any dose you need to be concerned about. Knowing which way the wind is blowing at the time of the event could allow you to extend your time limits to several days. In this case, a Geiger counter will clue you in.

Like I said, it is important to understand the effects of radiation at various doses and dose rates. If the plant has an accident and your Geiger counter starts warning you that its seeing 10 uSv/hr, you don't want to get in your vehicle, panic, and race down the road at 100mph.. Take your time, pack up your valuables, and leave...

On the other hand, if the area was seeing 500 uSv/hr, the authorities might tell you to remain calm and evacuate in an orderly fashion.. in this case, you want to get into your truck and race the hell out of there as fast as you can.. and if that means leaving valuables behind, so be it..

It is important to know, and comprehend, exactly what danger you're in. Even in the case of nuclear war where the environment is producing 1000 mSv/hr (1,000,000 uSv/hr), leaving your shelter for 60 seconds to turn a valve or flip a switch, is not going to cause your life to be in danger because your dose was only for 60 seconds.. In this scenario, you'd get about the same does as a medical scan.

Hope that helps.
 
Seems we're coming full circle in this thread. Regarding dose and dose rates, go back to the diagram I posted in #27:

 
...You don't need to worry about alpha and beta...where the environment is producing 1000 mSv/hr (1,000,000 uSv/hr), leaving your shelter for 60 seconds to turn a valve or flip a switch, is not going to cause your life to be in danger because your dose was only for 60 seconds..
You might enjoy the thread, I sure learned a lot. For example, I believe the real danger during that 60s you mention is what you might breathe in or what might adhere to your clothing (e.g., inhaled/ingested particles emitting alpha are still dangerous). See #95 for a thread summary.

Just as a follow-up, I never did get a Geiger counter as it seems what would be most beneficial to me are those that can accurately test foods (e.g., the fish I catch) and I am not so concerned as to overcome my cheapskatedness (although @upnorthandpersonal suggests in #33 (and #56) the RADEX Obsidian, $400, can perform adequately for food if you're patient.)

Hey @upnorthandpersonal, since it's been a year... don't suppose there's a $30 USB version that is actually sensitive enough to test food yet?
 
You might enjoy the thread, I sure learned a lot. For example, I believe the real danger during that 60s you mention is what you might breathe in or what might adhere to your clothing (e.g., inhaled/ingested particles emitting alpha are still dangerous). See #95 for a thread summary.
Yup.. alpha and beta will actually do more harm than Gamma if you ingest them. Fortunately, avoiding this is pretty easy and doesn't require any special equipment.. When we talk about radiation exposure, most of the conversations deal with gamma because its difficult to stop. Wearing a respirator and washing your fruits and veggies is a simple way to avoid the alpha and beta emitters.


Just as a follow-up, I never did get a Geiger counter as it seems what would be most beneficial to me are those that can accurately test foods (e.g., the fish I catch) and I am not so concerned as to overcome my cheapskatedness (although @upnorthandpersonal suggests in #33 (and #56) the RADEX Obsidian, $400, can perform adequately for food if you're patient.)

Hey @upnorthandpersonal, since it's been a year... don't suppose there's a $30 USB version that is actually sensitive enough to test food yet?
Yikes! Where are you fishing that you are worried about the fish being contaminated? I would think the government would monitor that kind of stuff???
 
don't suppose there's a $30 USB version that is actually sensitive enough to test food yet?

No, nothing useful or reliable. We have a device that is sensitive enough, but you're missing a few zeros on the price tag...

Fortunately, avoiding this is pretty easy and doesn't require any special equipment

Unless you decide to go for a wild ride through the red forest...
 
...Yikes! Where are you fishing that you are worried about the fish being contaminated? ...
Florida bay near the Everglades, not too far from the 60-year-old Turkey Point nuclear reactors in the flood zone and susceptible to hurricanes.
I'm a bit farther from Piney Point:
...phosphogypsum stacks storing more than 1 billion tons of ... radioactive waste in Florida... ref
... Commission voted unanimously Thursday to declare a state of emergency due to the liner tear at the phosphogypsum stack at... Piney Point.... ref

All that said, I don't think there's a problem now. But it seemed reasonable to learn about radioactivity, its effects, have some sort of exit plan if needed, and what the measuring tools are well before an emergency hits. As Pasteur said, Fortune favors the prepared mind.

All in all, I'm probably safer now than when I lived in Colorado drinking well water that was untested for Radon and I was ignorant about it. Oops!
 
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Perhaps the radiation here is worse than I thought... so losing my mind. Fixed the prior post to keep from causing more confusion.
That was funny. If argon was a problem, my welder would have turned me into a melted pile of goo by now.
 
Yikes! Where are you fishing that you are worried about the fish being contaminated? I would think the government would monitor that kind of stuff???

Oh, I'm sure they would monitor it, all right ...
But no need to cause a panic.


"untested for Argon and I was ignorant about it."

There seem to be quite a few radioactive isotopes of Argon:



All those isotopes have different atomic mass. You don't have to catch them decaying if you just put them on a scale and weight them.

That was funny. If argon was a problem, my welder would have turned me into a melted pile of goo by now.

Not a problem because you don't crawl around on all fours. Argon and Krypton are heavier than air, tend to gather near the floor.
 
Oh, I'm sure they would monitor it, all right ...
But no need to cause a panic.
We do have monitoring of our air. You can even look up the database of results in your own general location.

If we need to worry about fish, its a good thing I"m not a fan of eating fish.

"untested for Argon and I was ignorant about it."

There seem to be quite a few radioactive isotopes of Argon:



All those isotopes have different atomic mass. You don't have to catch them decaying if you just put them on a scale and weight them.
I think every element has at least one unstable isotope..

Not a problem because you don't crawl around on all fours. Argon and Krypton are heavier than air, tend to gather near the floor.
How do you know I don't crawl around on all fours?? Are you spying on me? :ROFLMAO:
 
I do collect rain water.. Our system takes it from the roof of the house, runs it down to a 250 gallon pump tank, and when that gets full, a float switch kicks on and pumps it 200 feet underground from the house to a 2500 gallon storage system.

I never considered rain could contain radon.

If you want to see something really cool, make yourself a cloud chamber.. You just need a few basic things you probably already have, plus a small bit of dry ice. The cloud chamber will allow you to see the actual radioactivity as the particles zip through the the environment.
 
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