RV inverters for 50 amp shore line trailers.

[CascadeOffGrid]

Okay...that makes a lot more sense now. I missed your earlier post about the power pedestal.

I haven't considered this solution because it isn't universal for all RV parks or shore power hookups. It certainly is a cost effective solution! I would imagine that you could need the inverter power assist functionality if you were running two fully loaded air conditioners, an electric water heater, and one or two refrigerators all at the same time. What has your experience been?

 

[snoobler]

Sorry if I came off as a d!ck.

We are conservative in our use. They are located in the high desert (6700 ft) and A/C use is rarely needed. The motor home is essentially a sleeping/hangout space with no appliances running, but with phone/laptop charging and TV/firestick use and the converter keeping the 12V batteries floated. Even when it's in the mid-90s, it's very dry, and there's almost always a breeze. It's surprisingly comfortable. If it gets that hot, we congregate in the 5th wheel with its better insulation, giant slideout and single A/C unit. We also have portable evaporative coolers that use less than 100W of power. If working just as fans isn't enough, we fill them with water and get quite a bit of cooling that way, though we're then tapping into another finite resource on site at about a gallon per hour per unit.

The most that ever runs at once is the 325W fridge, the 1500W water heater, the 1300W A/C unit (it's started up with the water heater off) and the converter running the 12V system. I even cycle the water heater off when I run the microwave just to be sure even though the 5K can handle it (I've forgotten a few times, and it worked).

As an experiment, I have run both A/C in the motorhome, but started them up a few minutes apart. I have also run one in each. No issues beyond excessive power use. 3kW of panels can sustain it during peak solar, but as it heats up towards 2-3pm, we can't quite supply it all. I have another 3kW of panels in waiting. I'm putting them up 1kW at a time. The next 1kW should take care of existing issues.

I will eventually deploy my second 5k/48 Quattro as I will have 240VAC to the site, but that's in anticipation of the eventual permanent dwelling we build. I also got a SMOKING deal on these units, so it was a no-brainer.

While my inverter is inside a shipping container connected to a 50A power pedestal, I can see having the same inverter system in the belly of the RV with only a single 120V inverter that can supply all the power needs without having to supply 240VAC split to the 50A input.

Additionally, there are also 4kW inverters that can output both 120VAC and 240VAC (Magnasine MS4024PAE), for about the same price as a single 120V 4kW unit. I just hate the idea of investing in dual inverters unless you truly NEED them.

 

[Elevation]

Well guys, I really appreciate all the ideas. Truth be known I have rebuilt 3 RVs and owned 4 besides those. I also work with 3 phase electrical systems quite often. I am new to solar systems. And I am learning from all your thoughts. Thank you and don’t stop.
Snoopler, great idea with the 30 to 50 adapter. Everyone has one and is a cleaver way to distribute power. You‘re are right there is nothing 240V inside the RV, except in special circumstances. But the 50 amp RV receptical IS... for the same reason your cord is 4 x #6 AWG wire because there is TWO 50A 120V hot legs or 100 amps of service. My RV with 3 x 15K A/Cs will trip the 50A 240V breakers sometimes.
FYI; I have no plans of running any A/C or water heater from battery power.
Snoopler: With two 5K inverters, what do you have for a battery bank? How many watts of solar do you have? OOPS! Just read your signature subscript. WOW What a system. No wonder you can run whatever you want!
Again, thank you, I love learning.

 

[snoobler]

LOL... note that I use the word, "deployed" a few times. My system is only partially implemented. It's an off grid property 3 hours from home base, so working time is very limited. I just nibble away at it a couple times a month.

 

[HRTKD]

Snoobler, I think I understand what you've done. But let me ask this, just to make sure. You have a 50 amp connection that is effectively 30 amp? If you tried to fire up appliances in your trailer (2 x 15k air conditioners) that exceeded 30 amps, your breaker would trip?

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see that there was a second page to the thread.

 

[snoobler]

No. The 50A limit is the NEMA plug and 6awg wire used to feed it. The RV can utilize up to 12kW (6kW per leg) from that source provided it is wired for it. The RV has other restrictions internally as well with breakers, wiring, etc.

My limit is the 4kW inverter feeding both legs. Since the line comes in on both legs, if I exceed 30A, it's spread over 2 6awg wires instead of 1, and there's no real concern in exceeding 30A by however much the inverter can handle. It can do 5kW for 30 minutes, so that's 42A if it was going to one unit exclusively as that would be split across the two input legs (my MH AC are on different legs). I wouldn't have any issues beyond an inverter running at its limit.

2X A/C when running only use 2400-2600W, but their surge is much higher. I start one, wait a few minutes and then start the other. That was just for fun too. Usually only run one on occasion... but another 1kW of panels are going up this weekend, so who knows...

Eventually, I will have both 4kW inverters synced and feeding both legs to provide 8-10kW of the 12kW a true 50A RV plug permits.

 

[Elevation]

Dzi, back to your comments on wiring the solar panels. My choice is 2 x series 24V to 3 x parallel pairs because as you noted, my concern would shading of my roof. It may be better to go 6 x parallel panels.
FROM THIS WEBSITE: Victron 60 amp controller
“Max Solar Array: up to 860 watts at 12 volts. 1720 watts at 24 volts, 3440 watts at 48 volts.”
My question just to be sure is: this means the series solar panels wired to 24 volts and not the battery bank wired to 24 volts?
‘I know that right now I only have 600 watts of panels, but if I install the inverter we are talking about. I might want to add a couple more solar panels and I definitely DO NOT want start over. At 45 feet long I have a lot of roof.

 

[snoobler]

No. Battery. SCC current is to the battery, i.e. 60A to a 24V battery in your example. The SCC has separate panel voltage and current limits. Panel voltage should be at least 50% higher than the battery.

 

[Elevation]

All 6 batteries are parallel, thus 12 volts 600 amp hours. Consequently, I would need the solar panels to produce about 18 volts or more to the solar charge controller. So it seems the series X 2 for 24 volt panels would be the best avenue?

No. Battery. SCC current is to the battery, i.e. 60A to a 24V battery in your example. The SCC has separate panel voltage and current limits. Panel voltage should be at least 50% higher than the battery.

 

[Dzl]

All 6 batteries are parallel, thus 12 volts 600 amp hours. Consequently, I would need the solar panels to produce about 18 volts or more to the solar charge controller. So it seems the series X 2 for 24 volt panels would be the best avenue?

Yes, I would think so 2S3P would make sense in your situation. You could add another 2-4 panels in the future, more if you wanted to oversize your array, so long as you keep your array Voc and Isc under the max input voltage and current of your SCC. With Victron controllers the max Watts are just a guideline, and refer to how much the controller can actually output, the hard limits for array size are volts and amps. More info here.

 

[Solar_Mann]

I did this one last year

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It’s still not 100% user friendly as is but it gets the job done. It will run all 3 15k AC units off inverter power. The load split feature is really nice. Allows you to limit surge loads so you can plug into a 15amp or 30amp outlet and still run the ACs, microwave etc without piping a breaker.

@snoobler it’s late and I’m tired so maybe I’m not thinking clearly...but with the way you are describing wouldn’t you be overloading your single neutral line IF the inverter could put out enough power? In the real world I understand it’s not an issue, but without having the true split phase the single neutral is taking double the load, correct?

 

[mapguy525]

@snoobler it’s late and I’m tired so maybe I’m not thinking clearly...but with the way you are describing wouldn’t you be overloading your single neutral line IF the inverter could put out enough power? In the real world I understand it’s not an issue, but without having the true split phase the single neutral is taking double the load, correct?

This is one of the reasons why I was asking about @snoobler setup earlier in thread.

 

[snoobler]

Isn't the neutral doing double duty on split phase?

 

[Solar_Mann]

Isn't the neutral doing double duty on split phase?

No the neutral is only balancing any u even loads on each leg. With a 50amp breaker on each leg in split phase the neutral can never have more than 50amps.

 

[snoobler]

Ah. Since split phase waves are opposite phase, the neutral zeros out. Should have thought of that first. Thank you. So I am effectively 6 kilowatt limited across both legs. Thank you for the education.

 

[mapguy525]

My training and work experience -it has been drilled into me to always maintain phasing and polarity. Thus my earlier questions to understand.

 

[Elevation]

Sorry if I came off as a d!ck.

We are conservative in our use. They are located in the high desert (6700 ft) and A/C use is rarely needed. The motor home is essentially a sleeping/hangout space with no appliances running, but with phone/laptop charging and TV/firestick use and the converter keeping the 12V batteries floated. Even when it's in the mid-90s, it's very dry, and there's almost always a breeze. It's surprisingly comfortable. If it gets that hot, we congregate in the 5th wheel with its better insulation, giant slideout and single A/C unit. We also have portable evaporative coolers that use less than 100W of power. If working just as fans isn't enough, we fill them with water and get quite a bit of cooling that way, though we're then tapping into another finite resource on site at about a gallon per hour per unit.

The most that ever runs at once is the 325W fridge, the 1500W water heater, the 1300W A/C unit (it's started up with the water heater off) and the converter running the 12V system. I even cycle the water heater off when I run the microwave just to be sure even though the 5K can handle it (I've forgotten a few times, and it worked).

As an experiment, I have run both A/C in the motorhome, but started them up a few minutes apart. I have also run one in each. No issues beyond excessive power use. 3kW of panels can sustain it during peak solar, but as it heats up towards 2-3pm, we can't quite supply it all. I have another 3kW of panels in waiting. I'm putting them up 1kW at a time. The next 1kW should take care of existing issues.

I will eventually deploy my second 5k/48 Quattro as I will have 240VAC to the site, but that's in anticipation of the eventual permanent dwelling we build. I also got a SMOKING deal on these units, so it was a no-brainer.

While my inverter is inside a shipping container connected to a 50A power pedestal, I can see having the same inverter system in the belly of the RV with only a single 120V inverter that can supply all the power needs without having to supply 240VAC split to the 50A input.

Additionally, there are also 4kW inverters that can output both 120VAC and 240VAC (Magnasine MS4024PAE), for about the same price as a single 120V 4kW unit. I just hate the idea of investing in dual inverters unless you truly NEED them.

My current plan is to install a Victron Multiplus 12V / 3000W / 120-50 inverter charger. My RV has a 5K generator and 50 amp shore line. Factory installed is a 1000 W Magnum sine wave inverter with a Magnum 15A transfer switch. Also factory installed is a Furrion F50-ATS automatic transfer relay switch 120 / 240 VAC - 50A.
Will the Victron Multiplus stand alone or should I use the Furrion auto transfer switch?

 

[HRTKD]

My current plan is to install a Victron Multiplus 12V / 3000W / 120-50 inverter charger. My RV has a 5K generator and 50 amp shore line. Factory installed is a 1000 W Magnum sine wave inverter with a Magnum 15A transfer switch. Also factory installed is a Furrion F50-ATS automatic transfer relay switch 120 / 240 VAC - 50A.
Will the Victron Multiplus stand alone or should I use the Furrion auto transfer switch?

I believe the Multiplus has only a single AC input. If you want the Victron to handle the ATS function then you have to move up to the Quattro line.

 

[Solar_Mann]

My current plan is to install a Victron Multiplus 12V / 3000W / 120-50 inverter charger. My RV has a 5K generator and 50 amp shore line. Factory installed is a 1000 W Magnum sine wave inverter with a Magnum 15A transfer switch. Also factory installed is a Furrion F50-ATS automatic transfer relay switch 120 / 240 VAC - 50A.
Will the Victron Multiplus stand alone or should I use the Furrion auto transfer switch?

You can leave the factory install transfer switch. Wire the multiplus in after the switch.

 

[Elevation]

I run 2 victron 12/3000 victrons on my 50a toyhauler

Jcain, l see you run Victron in a toyhauler...My current plan is to install a Victron Multiplus 12V / 3000W / 120-50 inverter charger. My RV has a 5K generator and 50 amp shore line. Factory installed is a 1000 W Magnum sine wave inverter with a Magnum 15A transfer switch. Also factory installed is a Furrion F50-ATS automatic transfer relay switch 120 / 240 VAC - 50A.
Will the Victron Multiplus stand alone or should I use the Furrion auto transfer switch?
Do you have a wiring diagram? I want to run one Multiplus.