Safe Grid Use of the 5000ES and transformer

[Tony Scott]

Scroll back through the tread. There are both electrical engineers and certified electricians that have for several months now being telling the world that there is a problem. And there are videos from 3 months ago showing the problem and outlining work arounds and how it doesn't solve the full issue on YouTube. A casual search will find them for you and I'm absolutely sure that this has even been brought up for months in the comments on Poz's video. This isn't new and there is no way for Growatt to have manufactured a transformer that solves a problem before they heard about said problem.


So, I'm asking, because we're getting marketing people telling us stuff that they have no knowledge of, that Growatt and Signature Solar get real EE people in here that can communicate directly with experts instead of broken telephone. Schedule a live chat somewhere if you want that outlines how to FULLY remediate the problem following the NEC and in an UL listed way. Or outline how you're going to replace the units with units that can meet those criteria.

I don't see how that is at all unreasonable.

And again, if the 5000US is just an ES with the screw removed and nothing else, these units are STILL not UL listable and STILL don't solve the problems as is not the least of which is that at 240V you have to have over 5mm of open air separation at 50 amps or an insulator according to UL regulations.

And you also believe that the chassis not needed to be grounded per you conversation with SS?

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[HEADING=3][HEADING=3]Tony Scott​

Solar Enthusiast​

• #23

That's what they told me today and they stated the Chassis do not need to be grounded.

Spoke with electrician he stated per code all chassis have to be grounded, which he will take care of If the units are not internally grounded.

All of these discussions are mute now that we Will has found out Growatt makes a U.S. version SPF 5000 US and is only sold through Signature Sola. The ES is an international version.

 

[Tony Scott]

It's not even being connected to the mains that get you. Whether connected to the grid or not, pretty much every municipality, even most unincorporated counties, have it in a statue or ordinance that anything attached to a structure has to abide by NEC and also specifically asserts that listed in NEC means UL listed. Of course a lot of us just ignore that because freedom and saving money. I still seek to understand and abide by the intent of NEC even if my gear isn't UL listed.

Not if you are off grid, UL is not a requirement

 

[Tony Scott]

Spoke with electrician he stated per code all chassis have to be grounded, which he will take care of If the units are not internally grounded.

All of these discussions are mute now that we Will has found out Growatt makes a U.S. version SPF 5000 US and is only sold through Signature Sola. The ES is an international version.

In fact the diagram the electrician drew pretty much matches what Signature Solar came up with. See what happens when let a real professional do their job. A lot of people on her are taking that walk of shame for jumping to conclusions based on a video showing the wrong equipment.

 

[Quattrohead]

"I was told by ss that the screw deforms the metal if it is ever used." that makes no sense since the ES did not have the screw removed. What is the gauge of the chassis that it can be deformed so easily when PCB is mounted to the standoff attached to the chassis? It also sounds like the standoff is not removed otherwise ho can they know that putting the screw in place will deform the metal.
And if the metal is deformed so easily, it means that the clearance between the PCB and the Standoff which in mil of clearance can make contact with each other, I.E. if the unit is not mounted to perfectly flat surface so the chassis will flex.

I am thinking they mean you can tell if the screw was installed because it would leave a mark on the bare solder around the hole, otherwise this statement is bollocks.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

electrician he stated per code all chassis have to be grounded, which he will take care of If the units are not internally grounded.

Grounded how is the question

 

[Quattrohead]

The 5000ES they sell is not a 5000ES, which further makes this mess more frustrating. They only sell a 5000US, but it is labeled as an 5000ES.

They are saying the "ES" that they do not sell, always has the neutral ground screw, and it is always present on the international model. They are saying the "US" never had the screw in the first place.

I am still waiting to see the pictures posted to see what they mean.

Does the manufacturers label on the side of the unit say it's a US model ???
It can be a "proper" US model for 240v use only and that would be fine, but the autotransformer still has serious risks if not properly implimated.

 

[Hedges]

In fact the diagram the electrician drew pretty much matches what Signature Solar came up with. See what happens when let a real professional do their job. A lot of people on her are taking that walk of shame for jumping to conclusions based on a video showing the wrong equipment.

Would you mind posting a picture of the diagram your electrician drew?

 

[Tony Scott]

Well it looks like there are standoffs there (surprise), if you watch Ian's video (14:32), you can roughly guesstimate which one it could be based on these 2 videos (16:45 in last video), the standoff a bit higher than center, and left of center.

Does the manufacturers label on the side of the unit say it's a US model ???
It can be a "proper" US model for 240v use only and that would be fine, but the autotransformer still has serious risks if not properly implimated.

You can only by U.S model from Signature Solar

 

[Quattrohead]

That's the Growatt 12000T (and 6000T), which are based on the Sigineer clone (not the same family of inverter from this discussion)...

Or are you referring to a different video he did (since you had posted the channel link, not to a specific video there)...

Wrong video, this one -

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Spoke with electrician he stated per code all chassis have to be grounded, which he will take care of If the units are not internally grounded.

All of these discussions are mute now that we Will has found out Growatt makes a U.S. version SPF 5000 US and is only sold through Signature Sola. The ES is an international version.

Well I hope you don't get yourself hurt or worse anyone else. Stubborn ignorance doesn't make you safe. It only takes a 50 milliamp jolt to the heart to end life. The only place the neutral is to be grounded is at the original point of service. It must "float" in all other panels. Otherwise your grounded cases become current carrying conductors.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Well I hope you don't get yourself hurt or worse anyone else. Stubborn ignorance doesn't make you safe. It only takes a 50 milliamp jolt to the heart to end life. The only place the neutral is to be grounded is at the original point of service. It must "float" in all other panels. Otherwise your grounded cases become current carrying conductors.

I hope you realize that the neutral is a current carrying conductor?

 

[Bud Martin]

In fact the diagram the electrician drew pretty much matches what Signature Solar came up with. See what happens when let a real professional do their job. A lot of people on her are taking that walk of shame for jumping to conclusions based on a video showing the wrong equipment.

Can we see the diagram?

 

[Tony Scott]

Well I hope you don't get yourself hurt or worse anyone else. Stubborn ignorance doesn't make you safe. It only takes a 50 milliamp jolt to the heart to end life. The only place the neutral is to be grounded is at the original point of service. It must "float" in all other panels. Otherwise your grounded cases become current carrying conductors.

Yeah he explained that, and also per code all grounding rods have to be connected to the main rod at the house, so Signature was correct with that grounding rod.

like I said the electrician will be connecting my system and the fact you reverted to name calling means you already lost the discussion and all reason.

 

[Quattrohead]

At 15:50, I think the bottom standoff of the 3 in a triangle would be the screw/standoff in question.

 

[Quattrohead]

You can only by U.S model from Signature Solar

So they say, but what does the label say ? Go on, have a look at your units and let us know.

 

[Bud Martin]

So they say, but what does the label say ? Go on, have a look at your units and let us know.

He should also show us his user manual, see if it says SPF-5000 US or not.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Yeah he explained that, and also per code all grounding rods have to be connected to the main rod at the house, so Signature was correct with that grounding rod.

like I said the electrician will be connecting my system and the fact you reverted to name calling means you already lost the discussion and all reason.

Well I hope you do have a qualified and insured electrician install it but from my vast experience in the electrical contracting world, you won't find one reputable contractor willing to risk his license on an alibaba imported, non certified tech hack done on the fly all in one do everything inverter. All my electrician bros that haven't retired like I have are all out making real money on real infrastructure jobs. Shesh.

Glad to be declared loser of the conversation.

 

[kjswiley]

Signature solar unit is the 5000US, not the ES. Growatt did not update the manual, and signature solar called it "ES" on their product listing. Huge issue here.

Are we sure about this, even the stickers on my units from Signature Solar have 5000ES

edit: Nm I see it was explained in more detail in a later post. Thanks

 

[Bud Martin]

Are we sure about this, even the stickers on my units from Signature Solar have 5000ES

edit: Nm I see you explained it in more detail in a later post. Thanks

That is what Will points out, the sticker still show 5000 ES, the user manual is shown as 5000 ES.

 

[kjswiley]

jumping to conclusions based on a video showing the wrong equipment.

We bought "ES" version per Signature Solar, it is even on the receipts. That is not jumping to conclusions that is being given incorrect information straight from the manufacturer we bought them from. They should figure out what they are selling.