San Diego Gas and Electric Moves to reduce PV payment for NEM 1 and 2 customers

[glandpuck]

SDG&E, the utility provider in San Diego County, CA is filing for changes to its utility rate structure with the California Public Utilities Commission. An in person hearing will be held in Escondido, CA on November 6, 2023 from 2PM until 6PM. A virtual meeting will be held on November 20, 2023 from 2 PM until 6PM. The phone number is: 800-857-1917 and passcode is: 6032788#

Webcast is: adminmonitor.com/ca/cpuc

According to SDG&E, this is part of the CPUC's directed regulatory process of the utility.

WHAT SDG&E IS PROPOSING:

TO EXTEND YEAR ROUND THE SUPER OFF-PEAK TIME OF USE FROM THE EXISTING MARCH-APRIL ONLY MONTHS DURING THE 10AM UNTIL 2PM TIME OF DAY. They (SDG&E) argue this will expand the lowest rates for consumers. However, it is also when PV systems generate most of their PV, from March through September as well as when most ratepayers without PV are away from home working and not consuming much electricity. Those on NEM 1.0 and 2.0 generally will sell back the most during these hours. By extending the low cost rate period, SDG&E will harvest millions of kW of PV power from homeowners at a paltry rate. The numbers paid to NEM 1.0 and 2.0 customers will be reduced by an estimated 73 to 80 percent!

SDG&E IS PROPOSING BLANTANT THEFT OF SOLAR POWER. They are pushing able consumers into total 24 hour a day self consumption with no export, while at the same time trying to impost a flat rate income based tax for being connected to the utility. The way to stop it is to simply become self sufficient, don't pay any more electric bills and have them turn off your service.

The Yiddish expression for SDG&E is to call them a ganif (gonnif). This translates to thief. For example: "That lousy ganif. I turned around and my sandwich was gone!"

For those customers of SDG&E, the time is now to prepare comments and participate in expressing your opinions to the administrative law judge. Contact your local representatives in your district or county district. Contact your local state representative and Senator. Tell them this theft has got to stop, the CPUC has got to put the brakes on the utilities or they can all find other people to represent when they no longer hold office.

 

[hwy17]

This is what NEM policy does to rational debate: Solar customers oppose lower rates.

The state giveth the gravy train and they protest when the state taketh away.

CAISO has a website where you can look up the market rate at your substation during 10-2, it's probably about $.04. Anything over that is an overpayment.

 

[glandpuck]

Hmm. I guess I just miscalculated my return on investment when I paid tens of thousands of dollars to install my PV equipment. I didn't know I was just supposed to be a charity for my utility company while I moved to produce clean electricity when they would not. My bad!

 

[400bird]

It's a tough place to be, I see what you both are saying and I hear your points.

I've got one more to add, why should the grid be a free battery for us? We dump power into the grid mid day, right at our utility pole or underground service. Then after dark, the utility needs to source power far away, transport it to me for free?
The way it is, the power is doing free work for us.

But still, screw the greedy IOUs (I'm in PGE territory) and this ridiculous proposed flat monthly fee that significantly increases my cost.
We are all selfish and only watch out for our own interests.

I agree, the best option is to raise your voice and go to the meeting.
Oh, or add battery and store your energy onsite. Watch out with pulling PGE service. That may be a requirement for a certificate of occupancy.

 

[glandpuck]

It's a tough place to be, I see what you both are saying and I hear your points.

I've got one more to add, why should the grid be a free battery for us? We dump power into the grid mid day, right at our utility pole or underground service. Then after dark, the utility needs to source power far away, transport it to me for free?
The way it is, the power is doing free work for us.

But still, screw the greedy IOUs (I'm in PGE territory) and this ridiculous proposed flat monthly fee that significantly increases my cost.
We are all selfish and only watch out for our own interests.

I agree, the best option is to raise your voice and go to the meeting.
Oh, or add battery and store your energy onsite. Watch out with pulling PGE service. That may be a requirement for a certificate of occupancy.

In CA, clean energy is mandated. In order to reduce the use of burning natural gas in the evenings, massive battery installations as well as other methods of energy storage such as potential energy and wind is being constructed. However, the utility has successfully argued that they build, operate, purchase power and deliver it to end users and then bill for the service. They argue that they should not and do not want to bear the cost of modernizing infrastructure mandated by the state to reduce fire risk and reduce fossil fuels. They reap billions in state grants, tax relief and higher rates to pay for this.

What you thought was a free battery is in fact, not a free battery as all ratepayers pay through line items on their bills exempt from PV offsets.

 

[Kenny_]

Yep. This is why I'm not planning on feeding the grid!

 

[hwy17]

all ratepayers pay through line items on their bills exempt from PV offsets.

You should read those line items in more detail. They don't go to infrastructure.

People just assume NBC's cover infra and that makes NEM2 fair. No, NBC's never did, they cover PPP's and decommissioning and other ancillary revenues but not infrastructure.

 

[zanydroid]

Yep. This is why I'm not planning on feeding the grid!

With this proposed change it is still irrational for NEM1/2 users except as a political principle. They have to make it a lot worse…

 

[glandpuck]

You should read those line items in more detail. They don't go to infrastructure.

People just assume NBC's cover infra and that makes NEM2 fair. No, NBC's never did, they cover PPP's and decommissioning and other ancillary revenues but not infrastructure.

The exorbitant delivery rates include a lot of the infrastructure costs. Plus as i said tax payer subsidies, etc.

 

[glandpuck]

You should read those line items in more detail. They don't go to infrastructure.

People just assume NBC's cover infra and that makes NEM2 fair. No, NBC's never did, they cover PPP's and decommissioning and other ancillary revenues but not infrastructure.

Question: Your tag says anti-solar enthusiast. If you are anti-solar, what are you pro about? 1. Living without electricity. 2. Pro nuclear. 3. Burning renewables like managed forests. 4. Burning coal and natural gas 5. Capturing methane excreted from animal farts 6. Geothermal 7. Burning oil like heating oil. 8. Human and animal pedal power 9. Capturing wave power.

Did I miss anything?

 

[400bird]

In CA, clean energy is mandated. In order to reduce the use of burning natural gas in the evenings, massive battery installations as well as other methods of energy storage such as potential energy and wind is being constructed. However, the utility has successfully argued that they build, operate, purchase power and deliver it to end users and then bill for the service. They argue that they should not and do not want to bear the cost of modernizing infrastructure mandated by the state to reduce fire risk and reduce fossil fuels. They reap billions in state grants, tax relief and higher rates to pay for this.

What you thought was a free battery is in fact, not a free battery as all ratepayers pay through line items on their bills exempt from PV offsets.

No disagreement here, the IOUs aren't good for residents.
Just to clarify, I meant it's free to me, the NEM customer doing the time shift, but you are correct some one pays for it.
It wouldn't be free to me, if, for example they charged a few pennies per kWh for me to sell mid day and pull that energy out at 2 am. I'm not proposing this as a solution, just trying to give an example.

 

[hwy17]

delivery rates include a lot of the infrastructure costs.

You get those credited under NEM 1/2, so you don't pay them on NEM consumption.

Question: Your tag says anti-solar enthusiast. If you are anti-solar, what are you pro about? 1. Living without electricity. 2. Pro nuclear. 3. Burning renewables like managed forests. 4. Burning coal and natural gas 5. Capturing methane excreted from animal farts 6. Geothermal 7. Burning oil like heating oil. 8. Human and animal pedal power 9. Capturing wave power.

2, 4, 7, Propane, and Propane Accessories.

 

[fafrd]

SDG&E, the utility provider in San Diego County, CA is filing for changes to its utility rate structure with the California Public Utilities Commission. An in person hearing will be held in Escondido, CA on November 6, 2023 from 2PM until 6PM. A virtual meeting will be held on November 20, 2023 from 2 PM until 6PM. The phone number is: 800-857-1917 and passcode is: 6032788#

Webcast is: adminmonitor.com/ca/cpuc

According to SDG&E, this is part of the CPUC's directed regulatory process of the utility.

WHAT SDG&E IS PROPOSING:

TO EXTEND YEAR ROUND THE SUPER OFF-PEAK TIME OF USE FROM THE EXISTING MARCH-APRIL ONLY MONTHS DURING THE 10AM UNTIL 2PM TIME OF DAY. They (SDG&E) argue this will expand the lowest rates for consumers. However, it is also when PV systems generate most of their PV, from March through September as well as when most ratepayers without PV are away from home working and not consuming much electricity. Those on NEM 1.0 and 2.0 generally will sell back the most during these hours. By extending the low cost rate period, SDG&E will harvest millions of kW of PV power from homeowners at a paltry rate. The numbers paid to NEM 1.0 and 2.0 customers will be reduced by an estimated 73 to 80 percent!

SDG&E IS PROPOSING BLANTANT THEFT OF SOLAR POWER. They are pushing able consumers into total 24 hour a day self consumption with no export, while at the same time trying to impost a flat rate income based tax for being connected to the utility. The way to stop it is to simply become self sufficient, don't pay any more electric bills and have them turn off your service.

The Yiddish expression for SDG&E is to call them a ganif (gonnif). This translates to thief. For example: "That lousy ganif. I turned around and my sandwich was gone!"

For those customers of SDG&E, the time is now to prepare comments and participate in expressing your opinions to the administrative law judge. Contact your local representatives in your district or county district. Contact your local state representative and Senator. Tell them this theft has got to stop, the CPUC has got to put the brakes on the utilities or they can all find other people to represent when they no longer hold office.

You can complain all you want, but the NEM 3.0 decision gave a clear picture of where rate structures are headed:



We NEM 1/2 customers can forget about the ‘Export Price’ (at least for another ~5 years) - we’ll earn export credit at full retail but nothing stops pushing full retail rates down as low as they want (nor pumping up peak pricing as high as they want). Nothing but CPUC approval, that is.

The CPUC is supportive of rate structures that incentivize solar customers to adopt batteries for self-consumption, so it’s only going to get worse.

You can put energy into complaining but I doubt that will change anything. I’d suggest that putting that same energy into installing a battery + hybrid system that will break-even in some acceptable timeframe is probably going to lead to a more productive outcome.

 

[AntronX]

28 cent per kWh price arbitrage opportunity using cheap used EV batteries. Using Eve LFP batteries would take 641 cycles to pay for themselves.

 

[sparrowhawk]

I lived in the San Diego area from 1984 until 2015 and always had SDG&E and I can remember when rates were around .05 cent a kilowatt hour with no transmission charges or any other additional charges. Closer to the beach most people didn't have a/c and most everybody used natural gas for heating/cooking. And yet SDG&E still managed to turn a profit.

It wasn't until the fiasco with deregulation that things started turning to shite. People were given the choice to shop around and lock in the best rates they could find. I locked in .09 cents a kwh others got even better than me, but many procrastinated, didn't lock anything in and were charged whatever the highest price available was at the time of their billing cycle which fluctuated wildly.

That sparked a lot of whooping & hollering from the procrastinators which gave local government the opportunity to step in and take over and give utilities the chance to solve the problem is ways that best benefited them which is exactly what they did. It's been downhill for rate payers ever since.

 

[glandpuck]

I lived in the San Diego area from 1984 until 2015 and always had SDG&E and I can remember when rates were around .05 cent a kilowatt hour with no transmission charges or any other additional charges. Closer to the beach most people didn't have a/c and most everybody used natural gas for heating/cooking. And yet SDG&E still managed to turn a profit.

It wasn't until the fiasco with deregulation that things started turning to shite. People were given the choice to shop around and lock in the best rates they could find. I locked in .09 cents a kwh others got even better than me, but many procrastinated, didn't lock anything in and were charged whatever the highest price available was at the time of their billing cycle which fluctuated wildly.

That sparked a lot of whooping & hollering from the procrastinators which gave local government the opportunity to step in and take over and give utilities the chance to solve the problem is ways that best benefited them which is exactly what they did. It's been downhill for rate payers ever since.

Well you are right about the current state of affairs. Right now, its just a dive into every pocket book without restraint.

 

[MaikaiLifeDIY]

What is the name of this hearing, the like code or description number thing?

 

[cj5orion]

And then there's that fee every month about getting your service from some other provider . Far as I know,in the coastal areas,there are no other providers! Yet we pay for it,this "opportunity" to go to another provider sometimes will cost 2-3 hundred/month,when your actual electric bill would the same at 2-3 hundred !!!!!

 

[hwy17]

What is the name of this hearing, the like code or description number thing?

Public Forum on SDG&E’s Rate Design Request

www.cpuc.ca.gov

 

[Hedges]

28 cent per kWh price arbitrage opportunity using cheap used EV batteries. Using Eve LFP batteries would take 641 cycles to pay for themselves.

641 cycles, 2 years, is fine for a battery that lasts 3000 or 6000 cycles.
I think the cells cost around $0.05/kWh, maybe cheap used EV batteries can be much less. BMS and inverter cost will put a floor on it.

But I don't think you're arbitraging import vs. export prices, looks like off-peak vs. peak export prices. Then have to consider your cost to produce, which I put around $0.025/kWh (DIY) or $0.10/kWh (turnkey), amortized over 20 years.

Instead of exporting for several hours around Noon and getting $0.025 credit, you store in batteries and export only around 7:00 & 8:00 PM when you get $0.30.
Use power stored in batteries whenever consumption exceeds production, during sunny seasons.
Off season, when daily production is below consumption, save your battery storage for 4:00 to 8:00 PM or other peak rate times, use the credits saved to buy power for $0.19

That lets you get 1.5 kWh back for each kWh exported. You'll be limited by kW of battery inverter. At one point I think PG&E allowed battery inverter to be 2x the rating of PV inverter, not sure now. If 120% rule applies to your installation that will be a limit.