Schneider Electric Conext XW MPPT 100-600 best use

[pvdude]

Trying to come up with the best way to deploy this Schneider Electric Conext XW MPPT 100-600 charge controller.
It has a capacity of 100 amps and 600 volts.
I ohmed out the PV connectors, they are all common.

So if I have two or three series strings of PV panels, connecting them to the charge controller makes them parallel?
Am I understanding that correctly?
If so, the only way I can get a series PV is by doing one single giant string.

I had originally wanted to use the Panasonic VBHN340SA17.
8S will provide about 550vdc @ 45amps.
Seems like a waste when the CC can use 100A.

So instead of Panasonic, if I ran 10S of these REC solar PV, looks like I would get 440vdc @ 95amps.
Is this more reasonable? I am trying to charge 445Ah of FLA.

 

[Hedges]

"440vdc"
That's 10 panels in series, each 44.0V open circuit at 25 degrees C.
Be sure to apply temperature coefficient and your location's record coldest temperature, to determine the maximum Voc which could ever occur. Otherwise, can kill the charge controller.

"440vdc @ 95amps"

To get 440 Voc (374 Vmp) and 95A Impp, you would need 100 panels and wire the 10s10p.
If you're considering 10 panels wired 10s1p, you get 9.5A Impp, 10.19A Isc.

Your goal is not to put 100A into the PV input, it is to get 100A out of the battery output.

100A x 48V = 4800W
4800W/374V = 12.8A

If you put in 20 panels, 10s2p, that would be 374V 19A Impp, about 50% over-paneled which is OK. Output will clip middle of the day. Or, you can orient one string at 9:00 AM sun and one at 3:00 PM sun for no clipping, more flat power curve throughout the day.

 

[pvdude]

Hedges,
Thank you very much!
The lightbulb went on, I need to think of PV panels series/parallel the same as batteries series/parallel connections.
I’m confused about your “If you're considering 10 panels wired 10s1p, you get 9.5A Impp, 10.19A Isc.” .
After reading https://diysolarforum.com/threads/solar-panel-strings-parallel-series-explained.61/

Seems like I would just be wiring the 10 panels in series, not sure what the parallel notation refers to?

I could start w/ 10 panels and add more after I see how the usage numbers look.
Great idea about facing different strings to optimize time of day!
The yard has good (no shade) positions South and West.
Thanks again,
pvdude

 

[Hedges]

By 10s1p I meant just 10s, 10 in series.

I know that with 10, 44Voc panels in series for 440Voc at 25 degrees C, you'll be OK with 600V charge controller.

Eight, 71.3V panels for 570 Voc at 25 degrees C will exceed 600V when cold, so only 7 of those in series can be used.

Panasonic HIT N340 VBHN340SA17 Solar Panel - Low Price

Low wholesale pricing on the latest Panasonic HIT N340 340W N-Type solar panel w/ 25 year product warranty. Expert reviews and complete HIT systems.

www.solarelectricsupply.com

My system similarly uses < 600V PV strings, but all AC coupled GT inverters, not DC charge controllers.

 

[sidpost]

The higher voltage specs of the Panasonic 96 cell panels make them harder to work with because the early morning (AM) voltages WITHOUT any real current will easily go past 600V and then fall significantly when the sun rises. You really want to run as close to 600V as you can without going over.

600V at 50A is a lot more power than 300v at 75A. Higher voltages also tend to be more efficient.

48V at 30A on a Midnite Solar KIDD is a lot more power than 24V at 30A as this KIDD is limited to 30A so, more power means you have to go to a higher voltage on the battery side. The same holds true on the panel side. We try to keep the panels right at 150V in the early dawn hours so we can have more panels (panel capacity) charging the batteries (assuming a fixed number of panels without excessive over-paneling).

 

[Snowboater]

Just finished a similar installation and was disappointed that the three installable array connections on the Conext MPPT 100-600 are common as pointed out above. False advertising by Schneider - sort of. Functionally, it doesn't seem to matter. I too used a 10s model with the same REC panels set up as 4 sets of arrays (40 panels total). Each array with a set of 10 awg wires roughly 400 feet from 2 ea Conext MPPT 100-600's in New Mexico. I've seen close to 3000 watts on each array. Since I have a battery shortage (LiFePo delivery issues) we use much of the power generated for two RV's (3 ACs +) when generated - thus bypassing the batteries. With the BMSs in the mix it's hard to tell what the panels could put out. I've seen both solar controllers deliver 110 amps at 54 vdc for over an hour and am VERY happy. The fans on the controller don't seem to kick in until we get near 90 amps @ 80 degrees ambient. Voltage is 430-450 vdc without a load, but drops to a consistent 412-416 regardless if the potential 200 to 3000 watts. Voltage drop was my main concern before the build because the arrays needed to be 400' away. I'm happy with the voltage and expect it not to exceed 550 vdc in the winter (the max working voltage of the 100-600 controllers). Conext Controllers only accept 2 awg max wire. Unfortunately this runs warm but not hot. Switched out much of the 48 vdc side to 4/0 cable which helped my peace of mind. We currently have only one XW Pro 6848 with another on the way. It seems solid and has put out constant 6-7k for hours during the heat of the day. I'll know more with time and as we expand the system.

FYI - This is an off grid system. The Conext power distribution stuff was unavailable so everything was piecemeal. Almost every cable in this build has a Drok meter on it. Accuracy isn't what Drok claims but I really like a quick glance to immediately see what's going on. Incoming voltage and wattage on the solar side (600 vdc max) are shunted meters. The 48 vdc from controllers and to batteries ( 8 separate meters) are Hall effect type. 240 vac is monitored on each leg with Hall effect. Meters were $15-40 ea on Amazon and although I wouldn't call them instrument grade - they have a lot of cool features and they're kinda sexy with the multi colored LED displays. Love the Midnight Solar breakers. Started off with non-Midnight flip lever type you'd use in your boat with a rating of 150 amp at 48 vdc - a couple fused closed at 50-80 amps - scary. Brought in some Eaton 200 amp lever type that worked great, but when the Midnight Solar stuff arrived I was able to replace the "open to air" stuff with breakers in a box. The MNDCE100's are solid, but you gotta get a MNDCE175 ~ $90 - 175 amp up to something like 150 vdc. This breaker is massive. I put two with Droks in a 12x12 Carlon box on the 48 vdc legs to feed the inverters (4/0) - I'm very comfortable. No arc flash with Midnight.

I built 2 batteries from 64 - 3.2 vdc cells from Overkill Solar in 2px16s arrangements each with 200Ah at 48 vdc. Top balanced and immediately solid until abused - but I'm still learning. Two Overkill BMSs that have a Bluetooth controller that I can access from my RV 90 feet from the shed - amazing. Can't say I like the control any better or worse than the Daly since I only "played" with the Daly software, but I can see all cell levels graphicly. Lot of settings not understood yet. Needed to top off a couple of cells that fell out of balance during a crash and used the charger Will used in his top balance video. He's right thou. It'd take a century for that charger to bring 32 cells up to 3.5ish volts, but it worked to kick my single set of laggart double wide cells up to snuff in a couple of hours.

The Conext Gateway is somewhat lame on the control side but interfaced immediately with the Xanbus network on the Conext equipment and was a breeze to setup on my LAN. Most notably I haven't figured out how to take an individual unit off line. If I ask the system to "Standby" - the entire system stands down. Maybe I'd like to continue to charge the batteries while I reconfigure the inverter. Killed the batteries one night and the inverter went offline due to F48 under voltage. When the panels started easing power into the batteries the inverter came up it sucked the life out of everything and continued this crash cycle until I physically switched the inverter off and waited for the sun to charge the batteries and overcome the load being requested before I brought it back online. If any Schneider users know the setting - please advise.

Not mentioned but in place are various disconnects, fuses and breakers. Disconnects at the solar panels and at the shed are switched with quad pole sealed switches controlling all legs. At the panels are 2 AIMS solar switches with the MC4 connectors(<$100 Amazon) added MC4 fuses. 400 feet away at the shed are 2 ea 4 pole "solar isolators 1000V/32A" (Amazon $58.88). Both are really safe because there's no exposed contacts even though they're in a box. They are switches so you need to touch'm.

I'll report back when we double battery and 120/240 generation capacity.

 

[Jennifer]

Just finished a similar installation and was disappointed that the three installable array connections on the Conext MPPT 100-600 are common as pointed out above. False advertising by Schneider - sort of. Functionally, it doesn't seem to matter. I too used a 10s model with the same REC panels set up as 4 sets of arrays (40 panels total).

Thank you for this great post, I have a whole shed full of new Schneider gear I purchased before getting Victron (I have the gateway, MPPT 150/60, battery monitor, (whew expensive) the various breaker boxes etc and had purchased an sw4048 and was planning on adding a second and stacking till they (Schneider) pulled that functionality from the firmware after I purchased it and the seller (invertersupply.com) was still false advertising that ability.... so I'm running a Victron 3000 and am getting ready to put in the full system in my off grid property and am torn between investing in a couple Quattro's or to go with an XW Pro. I love Schneider products but revoking of a feature and my experiences with their support push me towards Victron but I love the logging I had with Schneider and I'd need to go VRM to get that on V. Thank you for the great post as i was debating picking up that MPPT 100-60 as I had not heard anything about the new high voltage Victron MPPT yet.

Jen
100% off grid, 65 acres, NW Arizona

 

[pvdude]

Great fun, learning all this technology and having great forum help!

What I ended up doing is different than the original plan.
- Went with 16 of the REC Solar Alpha Series REC365AA > 365 Watt Mono Solar Panel

Connected 8 pv panels each in series.
When the two 8S strings were connected to the Schneider 100/600, they are parallel.

The MPPT charge controller sees about 350 vdc over the #10AWG cable run of about 250ft.
I have seen 95A of 48VDC going to the batteries, so the PV and 100/600 charge controller seem to be matched well for capacity.

The Schneider XW Pro firmware needed upgrading to 1.11 to be able to operate correctly with the new 100/600 MPPT charge controller.

 

[Hedges]

Killed the batteries one night and the inverter went offline due to F48 under voltage. When the panels started easing power into the batteries the inverter came up it sucked the life out of everything and continued this crash cycle until I physically switched the inverter off and waited for the sun to charge the batteries and overcome the load being requested before I brought it back online. If any Schneider users know the setting - please advise.

Voltage based disconnect would have that issue in particular.
I don't know Schneider's capabilities, but my SMA Sunny Island calculates SoC and uses that (probably has a low voltage disconnect as well.)

The inverter would shut down at 80% DoD and then user would have to figure out how to do a cold start with low battery (they have instructions on connecting an AC source to the wrong side of the inverter.) That is a problem for it with AC coupling; if DC coupled PV charging would resume automatically.

For more decent behavior, I have a load-shed relay set for 70% DoD. That disconnects the house, all loads. Inverter continues operating because DoD > 80%, and when sun comes up the AC coupled PV starts recharging. Sunny Island doesn't reconnect the shed loads until 50% DoD. That hysteresis prevents cycling on and off.

See if Schneider has separate low-voltage disconnect and reconnect settings. Even the cheapie inverters do (even if fixed not adjustable.)

 

[Jennifer]

Voltage based disconnect would have that issue in particular.

See if Schneider has separate low-voltage disconnect and reconnect settings. Even the cheapie inverters do (even if fixed not adjustable.)

I believe (for SOC disconnect at least, voltage disconnect may be different) it requires the VERY over priced battery monitor (that was a painful purchase), I don't think you can do it inverter/charger only but I could be wrong (I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken). ?

Jen

 

[jtvt]

Thank you for this great post, I have a whole shed full of new Schneider gear I purchased before getting Victron (I have the gateway, MPPT 150/60, battery monitor, (whew expensive) the various breaker boxes etc and had purchased an sw4048 and was planning on adding a second and stacking till they (Schneider) pulled that functionality from the firmware after I purchased it and the seller (invertersupply.com) was still false advertising that ability.... so I'm running a Victron 3000 and am getting ready to put in the full system in my off grid property and am torn between investing in a couple Quattro's or to go with an XW Pro. I love Schneider products but revoking of a feature and my experiences with their support push me towards Victron but I love the logging I had with Schneider and I'd need to go VRM to get that on V. Thank you for the great post as i was debating picking up that MPPT 100-60 as I had not heard anything about the new high voltage Victron MPPT yet.

Jen
100% off grid, 65 acres, NW Arizona

They pulled it because it doesn't work. They have been struggling with it for years. My guess is they finally got sick of replacing inverters. I went thru 5 or 6 of them and Schneider finally gave up and gave me an entire xw4024 setup with pdp and all the accessories.

 

[jtvt]

Trying to come up with the best way to deploy this Schneider Electric Conext XW MPPT 100-600 charge controller.
It has a capacity of 100 amps and 600 volts.
I ohmed out the PV connectors, they are all common.

That's 100a output. Input is limited to 35a. IIRC, you can overpanel it, but putting 100a on a 35a limited cc is likely a waste.

https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/Conext-MPPT-100-600-DS.pdf

 

[Jennifer]

They pulled it because it doesn't work. They have been struggling with it for years. My guess is they finally got sick of replacing inverters. I went thru 5 or 6 of them and Schneider finally gave up and gave me an entire xw4024 setup with pdp and all the accessories.

Yea I totally agree, I just wish I'd known that before I bought it, instead Inverter Supply continued to advertise it as stackable. After finding out, I researched and I don't want inverter fires so I'm glad they did pull it... but when i went back to Inverter Supply, the support guy was as useless as nipples on a bull basically saying I was full of it.... till I blew him out of the water with links, then he said "oh, yea, they pulled it", no apology, no sorry, you were right, no how can we fix this... after almost 5k worth of Schneider purchases.

Shows how useless their customer support is to automatically tell the customer they are wrong until put on blast with evidence.... I'll never buy from them again.. it's not been resolved, I'm going to escalate and demand an XW at cost or something else because the entire reason I bought it was for stacking.

If you want a good read, open the attached email thread PDF and start at the bottom... Anyone from Inverter Supply on this board? You call this "support"? Anyone from Schneider on here that want to tell me how you support your dealer conducting business like this?

Wanna know the REAL kicker? Check out these two below screenshots taken today....

Jen

 

[GVSolar]

Inexcusable. That vendor should be flogged (verbally &nfinancially).
I have an all Schneider off-grid system: SW4024, SCC 60-150 (2) Combox, SCP, off-grid, ac & dc coupled- 6kw total. Has worked flawlessly for 6 years. Great hardware and seamless integration. Sadly, not the best tech support anymore - and software seems to be the weak link (at least for pure AC coupled grid-tied solutions). DC coupled or AC/DC hybrid is much more robust. Knew going in that the stacking option was questionable - some heavy NAWS forum reading indicated potential problems.
But no regrets on my end. Best.

 

[Jennifer]

Inexcusable. That vendor should be flogged (verbally &nfinancially).
I have an all Schneider off-grid system: SW4024, SCC 60-150 (2) Combox, SCP, off-grid, ac & dc coupled- 6kw total. Has worked flawlessly for 6 years. Great hardware and seamless integration. Sadly, not the best tech support anymore - and software seems to be the weak link (at least for pure AC coupled grid-tied solutions). DC coupled or AC/DC hybrid is much more robust. Knew going in that the stacking option was questionable - some heavy NAWS forum reading indicated potential problems.
But no regrets on my end. Best.

Yup, I agree.... I wanted to love Schneider but this has ruined it for me... and before anyone says "yea but Schneider pulled it, it's Inverter Supply that continue to falsely advertise". I read so many posts by people that all of a sudden did a firmware update and lost functionality, what kind of manufacturer after you pay for something gives you an update that removes wheels, AC, 3rd gear etc... it was pretty shocking the lack of "give a damn" from what I saw.. I LOVE how responsive Victron is with their customers and community....but I'll end that here as I don't want to hijack this thread cus the original topic is awesome and I'm looking forward to reading more comments about the topic at hand.

Jen

 

[jtvt]

Yea I totally agree, I just wish I'd known that before I bought it, instead Inverter Supply continued to advertise it as stackable. After finding out, I researched and I don't want inverter fires so I'm glad they did pull it... but when i went back to Inverter Supply, the support guy was as useless as nipples on a bull basically saying I was full of it.... till I blew him out of the water with links, then he said "oh, yea, they pulled it", no apology, no sorry, you were right, no how can we fix this... after almost 5k worth of Schneider purchases.

Shows how useless their customer support is to automatically tell the customer they are wrong until put on blast with evidence.... I'll never buy from them again.. it's not been resolved, I'm going to escalate and demand an XW at cost or something else because the entire reason I bought it was for stacking.

If you want a good read, open the attached email thread PDF and start at the bottom... Anyone from Inverter Supply on this board? You call this "support"? Anyone from Schneider on here that want to tell me how you support your dealer conducting business like this?

Wanna know the REAL kicker? Check out these two below screenshots taken today....

Jen

Yeah I know. The only reason I know about is because of a guy on NAWS that is a Schneider installer/partner/whatever mentioned it. I saw the ads too. BTW, if you read the "fried conext sw4024" thread on NAWS, that is me. I went through 5 or 6 of them. That was a while ago and they did me right. NAWS was ready to fix me up with different hardware if they didn't.

I've also read that Schneider doesn't want to deal with retail. They want to go thru installers. Hence, no support. I think with the larger inverters they are trying to move more installations away from stacking. You pretty much can do almost everything with one xw6848 as you can with two sw4024. I think most offgrid folks don't need more than one xw6848 and many don't need more than one sw4024.

Thanks for the tip on invertersupply. I'll add them to my do not use list along with solaris-shop.com.

 

[pvdude]

I hope they keep the stacking feature for the 6848, I need more than 50A to start the heat pump, and am planning to add a second HW+ Pro.

 

[Jennifer]

Yeah I know. The only reason I know about is because of a guy on NAWS that is a Schneider installer/partner/whatever mentioned it. I saw the ads too. BTW, if you read the "fried conext sw4024" thread on NAWS, that is me. I went through 5 or 6 of them. That was a while ago and they did me right. NAWS was ready to fix me up with different hardware if they didn't.

I've also read that Schneider doesn't want to deal with retail. They want to go thru installers. Hence, no support. I think with the larger inverters they are trying to move more installations away from stacking. You pretty much can do almost everything with one xw6848 as you can with two sw4024. I think most offgrid folks don't need more than one xw6848 and many don't need more than one sw4024.

Thanks for the tip on invertersupply. I'll add them to my do not use list along with solaris-shop.com.

OMG, yup, your post on NAWS is EXACTLY what I was talking about!!!!!!!!!

No prob re Inverter Supply, it's a shame cus it was free shipping, it was FAST and the price was fantastic.... but in the end not worth it. It really sucks, I'm Canadian (dual actually) from BC, home of Schneider so really wanted to support the home team.

Having said that... I just went back and read the exchange between myself and Schneider when a firmware update caused my MPPT to start flashing for no reason and when I reached out to them, they said "read the readme (which said NOTHING about any change resulting in flashing screens) and reinstall windows" (basically). You all probably know exactly what it was but for me it was my first Schneider install and there was NOTHING in the documentation or readme about it.

Check out the attached PDF, start at the bottom...... shockingly poor support...

Jen

 

[dougbert]

OMG, yup, your post on NAWS is EXACTLY what I was talking about!!!!!!!!!

No prob re Inverter Supply, it's a shame cus it was free shipping, it was FAST and the price was fantastic.... but in the end not worth it. It really sucks, I'm Canadian (dual actually) from BC, home of Schneider so really wanted to support the home team.

Jen

oh jen

sorry for the bad experience with the sw4024 inverter, but it is an old model from Xantrex days that SE got when they bought the product.
It is NOT the same as my Trace SW4024 that I have and swapped out. Mine was released in the 1999 time frame

 

[Jennifer]

oh jen

sorry for the bad experience with the sw4024 inverter, but it is an old model from Xantrex days that SE got when they bought the product.
It is NOT the same as my Trace SW4024 that I have and swapped out. Mine was released in the 1999 time frame

Hi stranger... it was actually a Connext SW4048, and I love it, it works great, I was just po'd about them removing stacking... (and their terrible customer service) see PDF in post 18 above.