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Schneider system battery upgrade

pvdude

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
627
Location
Florida
I built a basic system in 2021, (with the help of this amazing forum).
One Schneider inverter & charge controller, 21kw of FLA batteries, 5840 watts of PV.
Just wanted to run the well pump and keep some lights and a refrigerator operating overnight.
The system worked so well, I expanded the capacity, adding a second inverter, two more charge controllers, 15560 watts of pv.
Now we can run the heat pump, pool pumps, water heater, etc.

The batteries are the last thing to upgrade, replacing two year old Rolls Surrette S6 L16 445Ah with 4KS 21P 1148Ah batteries, 55kw.
Reasons:
-The old batteries could only run a few small loads in the house during overnight grid outages.
The larger batteries will allow us to power more loads for longer intervals, overnight.

-The charge controllers could, theoretically, put 300A into the batteries during charging.
The small batteries charge limit is about 85A, but the new batteries won't be damaged by the CC capacity.

I use FLA because they are very simple, and this system is operated with the batteries in "standby", they only are heavily discharged if the grid is down overnight.
PV runs all the loads during the day. No sell-back configuration.

Bought a Harbor Freight "pickup truck bed crane".
I bolted it to the frame of a small trailer I made 40 years ago.
Worked great to get the heavy batteries off the pallet and into the trailer, so I could move them to the shed where the solar equipment is installed.

I originally wanted to install the new batteries outside, so the Hydrogen would vent safely.
But Rolls tech support explained what the tropical heat here would do the batteries performance and durability.
I relented, and will put them inside the shed.
Must enclose the batteries and provide positive pressure venting to the outside. PIA
craneliftingbattery.jpg
twobatterylimit.jpg


I did manage to get some of the new batteries into the shed before my lower back said "nope"
old_new_batteries.jpg
 
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Was just looking at the cycle life and depth of discharge for those. What will you use for dod? Man those are some heavy muthas.
 
Man those are some heavy muthas
My lower back agrees, 6 more remaining move this morning......

DOD on the old (445Ah batteries) was around 2-3% in standby mode.
These will barely power the reduced house loads overnight.
The inverters are configured to shut down @ 46vdc.

The 4KS 21P discharge chart seems to indicate it will be almost impossible to run the new batteries down to inverter shutoff voltage overnight.
Screen Shot 2023-04-13 at 08.21.04.png
After the new batteries are installed, I will test the discharge by running the house on them overnight, to simulate the typical hurricane aftermath.

It would be cool (literally) if the AC could be powered up @ night on the new batteries!
 
Installed and operational now on the new batteries!
Initial charging was interesting. They had about 50vdc, as delivered from the dealer.
Upon activating the charge controllers, the batteries began taking 8kw from the PV,
happily gurgling & stinking up the place.
Working on a pressure ventilated battery box today.


new_batteries_april_15_2023.jpg
 
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I'm well into year 23 with those same models. Took them down to 40% last night and they behaved nicely. Almost have them filled back up now.
 
Made some progress on the battery box, hope to finish it this week!
I found a 48vdc box fan, planning to connect it directly to the battery.
It will pressurize the sealed box, and move gasses outside the shed.
Draws .12A, so not worried about the load on the batteries.
Vents to the outside.
battery_box_frame.jpg
battery_exhaust_vent copy.jpg
 
You should pull a tape measure across those batteries to help folks get an idea of the scale. I think some would appreciate it. Talk about heavy metal. Even better would be to put something in front of them that we all would recognize.
 
Don't you want negative pressure ventilation for the battery box? To pull the acidic vapors or whatever outside vs pushing them out every crack in the enclosure and into the shed?
 
negative pressure ventilation
I thought about doing it that way, but wondered what the fumes would do the fan.
Might be worth the fan life to more effectively scavenge the box, I agree that w/ positive pressure, I would have to be
very meticlous about sealing every seam and crack!
 
Just curious: That is flooded batts right? Why not go LifePO4s in this modern day and age?
 
Why not go LifePO4s in this modern day and age?
Yes, FLA's.
My system is DC coupled PV, no sell back to the utility. PV runs the loads during the day.
Only a few loads are on the solar, the rest of the house stays on grid.
(solar loads = well pump, two pool pumps, water heater, heat pump compressor, shed AC unit & lights)

The batteries are in standby 99% of the time, so they are not cycled every day.

FLA are very good in a "standby" application. They will be in service long after I will!

Also, I read about difficulties in finding honest, competent vendors of the LifePO4 batteries, too much drama for me.
The FLA vendor is in my area, and very good to deal with.
https://www.dcbattery.com/
I like the simplicity of FLA's - no BMS, no other tech to figure out.
All I do now is water the batteries once a month, otherwise the system is automatic and requires no attention from me.
 
Finished the battery box today!
- used .220 (5.5mm) LEXAN for the top & sides
- used 3M double sided tape to stick the side panels to the Aluminum frame.
- ROTRON p/n 028870, 48vdc box fan extracts the fumes to the outside.
I don't know how many CFM, but it is very powerful and loud.
Did a smoke test with a lit cigarette held 4" from the box intake,
smoke stream went straight into the box intake grille!
3m_scotch_mount_extreme_tape.png
lexanbatterybox.jpg
intake_grille.jpg
 
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