Signature Solar said "Will Prowse setup is wrong and dangerous"

[wattmatters]

Am I missing something?

The term "UPS" is quite vague as there are many different types/levels of UPS, so it's not so much you missing something but those who use the term UPS should probably be more specific about what they mean.

But in general, I don't see why powering some lights with a half decent inverter is going to be an issue.

I'm with others who point out none of the discussion so far has addressed the OP's issue with flickering lights.

 

[robbob2112]

The term "UPS" is quite vague as there are many different types/levels of UPS, so it's not so much you missing something but those who use the term UPS should probably be more specific about what they mean.

I interpret UPS to me something like an APC uniteruptable power supply. Is there another meaning used here that I am unaware of?

 

[SparkyJJO]

I interpret UPS to me something like an APC uniteruptable power supply. Is there another meaning used here that I am unaware of?

United Package Smashers.

 

[robbob2112]

United Package Smashers.

Out of context of supplying power - they deliver things verse power things... Anyways, side topic, we now return you to why the OP would have a flickering bulb from his setup.

My original thought was a stepped sine wave verse pure, but that inverter should put out the pure sine wave unless it is defective.

 

[Brucey]

I think this flickering lights issue has been attempted to be addressed via firmware for some manufacturers models not sure if that's the case here.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Out of context of supplying power - they deliver things verse power things... Anyways, side topic, we now return you to why the OP would have a flickering bulb from his setup.

My original thought was a stepped sine wave verse pure, but that inverter should put out the pure sine wave unless it is defective.

I'm sure somewhere this was asked -- but did he check the bulb?? Some bulbs simply don't like a certain power harmonic ...

I'm actually still laughing at the picture of the "grounding" bag ...

 

[Jmhai3]

The description for the EG4-3K says it as such.

"The EG4 3000EHV-48 is a 3000W all-in-one, multi-function inverter/charger; it combines the capabilities of an inverter, MPPT solar charger, and battery charger to offer uninterrupted power support in a single, portable-sized package. Its comprehensive LCD display offers user-configurable and easy-accessible button operation including battery charging current, AC/solar charger priority, and acceptable input voltage based on different applications."

My planned use is to plug it into the wall (AC-in on the unit) and plug my refrigerator, CPAP, and maybe a lamp in the ouput power strip at night if there is a bad weather event that might cause a power loss so my food is fine, and I can sleep thru it till I wake and deal with it.

Also, if the power is already out at night so if the power comes back on it will start to charge the battery and will not change anything else.

I have a generator for daytime use already.

***I did not see it mentioned that he tried the bulb in a house/alternate power source, and it operate fine without flickering. I know it sounds fundamental, (and some may say goes without asking) but it must be asked? Bulbs do go bad even LEDs if that is what he was using?

I have not seen the OP respond since he started this very informative thread.

 

[robbob2112]

I just had a stupid newbie thought - is it possible that 60watts is just not enough load to make it function properly? And a question, is your bulb a standard incandecent bulb or CFL or LED equivalent of a 60 watt bulb. If it is either of the latter the load would be only about 7 watts.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Possible it needs a minimum load.

 

[ksmithaz1]

Newbie here so be gentle - Why would a UPS be better for TV/electronics that an inverter that puts out a nice clean pure sine wave? All modern devices you mention run from a HF switching PSU and then they use the DC output. So they generally would work fine from an inverter or a UPS. The only thing a UPS would potentially buy that I can think of is a shorter transfer time to battery power?

Am I missing something?

Nope, you guessed it. A line-interactive UPS will switch dramatically faster. And the power supplies in most consumer grade TV's (The big LED ones) and other similar electronics are pathetic to abysmal. A laptop as discussed earlier really comes with a built-in online UPS. If you have a nice desktop PC with an 800watt power supply, no problem. If you have a 15 watt brick running a 10 watt gadget, as the brick ages the capacitors fade, things reset. A fridge is just a motor which doesn't care unless it's way, way out, and nobody really knows if the light goes out when the door closes anyway.

 

[ksmithaz1]

These inverters are apparently actual switching devices. Either way, they were not precision engineered to be a ups for sensitive electronics they are engineered to provide bulk power, inexpensively. Is the light flickering without being plugged into grid power or with being plugged into grid power? 60W? an incandescent bulb? A 60W LED bulb is actually 7W I think.

 

[wattmatters]

I interpret UPS to me something like an APC uniteruptable power supply. Is there another meaning used here that I am unaware of?

What sort of UPS though? There are several different types.

https://www.vertiv.com/en-anz/about/news-and-insights/articles/educational-articles/what-are-the-different-types-of-ups-systems/

 

[robbob2112]

It would appear it is an offline UPS with a transfer time of 10ms from the specs sheet. The only reason that would cause flickering would be if it was transitioning back and forth, I don't see it. Until the OP comes back with more details I am going to stick with the idea that it needs a minimum load. And if the OP answers the questions I wonder what a heavier load behaves like?

 

[wattmatters]

I just had a stupid newbie thought - is it possible that 60watts is just not enough load to make it function properly?

Only if it's in energy saving mode. Else a low load should not be an issue. I have run 30 W halogen light from a 4 kW AIO using just a simple power supply to simulate a battery.

Is the light flickering without being plugged into grid power or with being plugged into grid power?

Knowing that might point to something.

I know my AIO inverter affects the grid waveform when operating in Utility First mode. The distortion is greater when the AC input is set to UPS mode than in APL (appliance) mode. I can't imagine it's enough to cause any flicker but who knows?

For example, this is the waveform from my AIO when in SBU mode (running from battery). My grid waveform is a very clean sine wave, I just don't have a chart handy right now to post.

Now compare the above with the waveform when in Utility First mode with AC input set to APL (appliance):

Note the distortion. Now this is the waveform in Utility First mode when AC input is set to UPS mode:

Aside from the shape distortion, note also the asymmetry of the waveform, with the first half taking long between zero crossing points than the second half. This does affect the voltage measurement of some devices, including my IoTaWatt which expect asymmetry to be within certain tolerances.