Small Home ongrid, get AC offgrid

[Hedges]

All or nothing is the objective of the protection circuit, loads would be safe with that.

"Lost neutral" is the subject of empirical research I performed as a child. I did hot work rewired my mom's house to power my workbench. That apparently put a light bulb in series with a refrigerator, fed by 240V, and the light bulb lost. Somehow, I survived my childhood.

Relays require more current to pull in than to hold. I think AC relays to some extent have an "economizer" function provided by change in inductance when core gap gets closed. But there is still hysteresis, and operation over the entire in-spec voltage range.

 

[trad]

To begin with I wrote (the EG4 6500ex is awesome, but wouldn't that be overkill for this small load?)

Now it seems we are heading towards something like a dual 6500ex solution for 240v or an EG4 18KPV. This could allow so many more options in the future like net metering, big battery bank, massive solar array. (net metering needs more investigation)

Would it be fair to say that a system based on 6500ex or 18KPV would be lower risk than a Growatt 5000ES? There is no auto transformers needed, and is there any need for a Chargeverter?

 

[LydMekk]

Everything is better than a Growatt (I had 4...)
But yes, the EG4s will be better.
If you are looking at a 18k have you also looked at Sol Ark?

 

[timselectric]

Would it be fair to say that a system based on 6500ex or 18KPV would be lower risk than a Growatt 5000ES? There is no auto transformers needed, and is there any need for a Chargeverter?

If you are considering a larger system. (Not just an A/C unit. Then, the Growatt is not the better option.
I only suggested it according to what you wanted to do in the beginning of the thread.

 

[timselectric]

Everything is better than a Growatt

I'm Sorry that you feel that way.
Mine have worked flawlessly. And will accomplish all of my goals.

 

[Quattrohead]

I was starting out wanting to get very quick payback, but.... If you start cheap, it will just cost you more in the long run.

Many of us have been down this road and found it to be a waste of money in the early days, but a good learning experience. You are going into a multi-step program and there is no cure, hold up your hand and say "I am a solar power addict."

 

[Zwy]

Would it be fair to say that a system based on 6500ex or 18KPV would be lower risk than a Growatt 5000ES? There is no auto transformers needed, and is there any need for a Chargeverter?

Forget the 6500EX, it has never had the problems worked out. If you are thinking of anything like the 6500EX, then consider the MPP LV6548. The pair I have work flawlessly. However, you will need to take the lower 250V VOC rating into consideration.

As for the 18Kpv, I would not be in a hurry. Some issues are coming to light as more people start using one.

 

[trad]

Forget the 6500EX, it has never had the problems worked out. As for the 18Kpv, I would not be in a hurry. Some issues are coming to light

If you are considering a larger system. (Not just an A/C unit. Then, the Growatt is not the better option.

@Zwy You have no hope for the 6500ex? The 18kpv needs some more time to mature? SolArk 15K is more mature? The 250W limitation of the MPP LV6548 will complicate the design.

@timselectric So 1 Growatt is OK, but multiple unit expansion is where it starts to break down?

Tradeoffs.....

 

[Vigo]

Tradeoffs.....

Yes, very much that. There are situations where it's dead simple to use an SPF5000ES, and other situations where it's annoyingly complicated.

That's why you hear people say stuff like 'assume you will get addicted to the game and eventually want to power every damn thing with solar and inverters, and build something that's big enough / most compatible / most scalable in the first place so you don't end up throwing every prior iteration out the window as your goals change'. I know that's a long sentence, but i think it made sense.. lol

 

[timselectric]

@timselectric So 1 Growatt is OK, but multiple unit expansion is where it starts to break down?

Tradeoffs.....

it's just not as plug and play as other options.
I'm very happy with them. I haven't found a more cost effective way to build my 40kw system.

 

[Zwy]

@Zwy You have no hope for the 6500ex?

None. There is a reason Signature Solar is offering $750 credit towards the purchase of the 18Kpv unit and you get to keep the 6500EX.

The 18kpv needs some more time to mature?

Yes, it does. Plenty of promises, whether those promises come to bear fruit is another thing. It does appear to be a work in progress.

SolArk 15K is more mature?

Most definitely but has been on the market longer. I do believe they actually ran tests on the product in real life situations before releasing it into the wild. The 18Kpv? Not so much testing as you see threads where this should have been addressed before release.

The 250W limitation of the MPP LV6548 will complicate the design.

Only if the array is a long distance away like my array which is 420 feet away and it is desired to use 10AWG wire with minimal voltage drop. The workaround for me was to utilize a pair of EG4 MPPT's that are VOC rated for 500V, but I currently have one setting a F01 code in the evening but works just fine during the day.

The LV6548's do have 2 SCC's per unit so a pair allows for 4 PV inputs. If a short distance to array and the right panels, the LV6548 would work perfectly fine as a combiner box won't be needed. Total of 16Kw of PV input. Something like this 365W panel or this 380W panel in a 5S2P configuration per PV input would work great depending on the VOC at coldest winter temp.

@timselectric So 1 Growatt is OK, but multiple unit expansion is where it starts to break down?

Tradeoffs.....

 

[trad]

Yes, very much that. There are situations where it's dead simple to use an SPF5000ES, and other situations where it's annoyingly complicated.

That's why you hear people say stuff like 'assume you will get addicted to the game and eventually want to power every damn thing with solar and inverters, and build something that's big enough / most compatible / most scalable in the first place so you don't end up throwing every prior iteration out the window as your goals change'. I know that's a long sentence, but i think it made sense.. lol

What is the sweet spot for the SPF5000ES? I see David Poz is quite happy with 2 - Growatts totally offgrid.

I was planning to start up with solar and 1 Growatt grid-tie to help me with my AC during sunshine but handle all other loads from the grid.
I would add another Growatt, auto converter and batteries later to go fully offgrid.

All our large loads like hot water, dryer, stove and furnace are natural gas so we shouldn't need anything more in the future. I have room for 100 solar panels.

 

[timselectric]

What is the sweet spot for the SPF5000ES?

It's not a number. When complete, my system will include 8 units.
The "sweet spot" , would be no connection to grid.

 

[trad]

It's not a number. When complete, my system will include 8 units.
The "sweet spot" , would be no connection to grid.

You haven't had any problems with displays going dead?

Have you set up the Shine wifi communication stick on your 5000ES?

Jeff Motes replaced his 5 SPF5000ES with SolArk15K because of these problems among many other.

 

[timselectric]

You haven't had any problems with displays going dead?

No issues at all.

Have you set up the communications on your 5000ES?

In parallel, they have to communicate with each other. But I don't use BMS communications. (Not a fan)

Jeff Motes replaced his 5 SPF5000ES with SolArk15K because of these problems among many other.

Yeah, that was a shame. He had a lot of problems getting it setup. And spent a lot of money, to change everything.
Never really figured out what was causing his problems. But I'm glad that he found something that works for him.

 

[Vigo]

What is the sweet spot for the SPF5000ES? I see David Poz is quite happy with 2 - Growatts totally offgrid.

Cant say for sure but i suspect his opinion is the same is mine.. That they work fine but in the time since they became popular, enough other options have shown up that i wouldn't go straight to the Growatts for any new build, unless it was for reasons that i trusted the Growatts to actually work, more than i trusted some of the newer options. It seems like there is a lot of complaint around here about issues with some of the newer all in ones, but i have had no real issue with how my Growatts act other one time not being able to 'hard reset' them without disconnecting the current sharing cables, and one of them stopped restarting solar charging on its own in the morning if inverter switch is off, which has been a known issue and in my case is irrelevant because i leave the inverters on 24/7. I have given them actual abuse, driven them into fault modes numerous ways, left them sitting on concrete blocks on the ground outdoors (operational!) for ~2 months, etc.. they have earned their place until one blows!

I have no need to change my Growatts out for anything else but for a new build i would probably not choose them today. Can't say exactly what i WOULD do without some further research, though. I know that's not super helpful. Just that a Growatt SPF5000 does not offer anything unique at this point either in capability or price point. If anything their main advantage at this point may come down to being 'the devil we know' just due to the knowledge base on the forums vs newer or more niche products. Not a super strong selling point.

 

[timselectric]

It was cost effective and reliable.
My wallet and my labor, make most of my decisions.
And I still haven't seen anything new come out. That would change my mind, yet.
but I will add that my abilities and access to everything else (cheap or free) needed to complete the system. Made it more appealing to me.
But, that would be the same, no matter what I chose.

 

[trad]

It was cost effective and reliable.

Cost effective and reliable are top of my list too. I might need to get some of your batteries since I hear you have way too many..... <grin?

 

[timselectric]

Cost effective and reliable are top of my list too. I might need to get some of your batteries since I hear you have way too many..... <grin?

No such thing as too much storage capacity.
I'm not even a 3rd of the way complete, on my original plan.