diy solar

diy solar

Sol-Ark 12K with AC coupling

I was planning to do similar to you. I would use micro inverters on some of my panels and that energy would be used to power my home.
But it is hard to decide which panels need micro inverters because the shade I have changes at different times of year. So I think it might make more sense to use optimizers on all of the panels and let the inverter / charge controller decide when to convert to AC.
 
Really depends on your primary use case. If you are primarily using solar to suppliment grid useage it is best to use GT inverters. Then it is how to supply power from solar when grid goes down. In this case best is AC coupling.

Micro inverters are good to use if you have a lot of changing shading issues during the day or have panels in multiple directions. Down side is mostly the stress of the microinverter capacitors being subjected to high heat mounted on panels. You should have network monitoring to keep tabs on their performance. If you are using microinverters, AC coupling is only option for providing grid-down solar power.

If your primary use case is suppliment grid power, I don't like like using grid tied hybrid inverter doing the grid suppliment because there will be a lot of battery ripple current that shortens their lifespan. The batteries are providing the filter capacitor function from DC charge controller to AC grid instantaneous sine square power profile. You usually have a lower conversion efficiency from PV to grid power with hybrid inverter feed using panels to feed battery node through DC charge controller.

AC coupling PV power is limited by hybrid inverter connect relay (transfer switch) amperage limit. You can always put an external transfer switch that keeps PV grid tie inverters on grid side of hybrid inverter during normal grid available operation. With micro inverters you can also provide two down feed AC lines with one tied directly to grid side and other tied in AC coupling if your total PV power is too high for hybrid inverter relay.

For a central GT inverter setup with high DC voltage series connected panels there is also an option of getting a high input voltage DC charge controller. These HV DC charge controllers are expensive and hard to justify the added cost for just grid backup purpose (unless perhaps if you live in an area with regular rolling backouts). I still prefer AC coupling over this solution.
 
Things changed a lot in about 2 years. Back then, when I was planning my initial Solar, we had not had a single "Public Safety Power Shutdown". And batteries were way too expensive. Looking at a Hybrid system was out of my budget, and I didn't see enough incentive for it. I also didn't like the idea of 600 volt DC lines in my attic. And Enphase teased their new Ensemble storage system.

If I was starting the system design today, I would likely have done it a bit different. My upper roof section with 8 panels has basically no shade issues. Those could certainly go on a string inverter or MPPT input on an All in One hybrid like the Sol-Ark or Skybox. It's 2,400 watts DC of panels. My lower roof section does have some shade issues, so I probably would stay with the micro inverters down there. That's 1,920 watta of AC coming out, and I do have room to easily ad another pair. That would make a very nice setup on a Skybox. The Sol-Ark really asks for more DC solar to do it's best.

For my upgrade to add storage, I ended up being sold on the Schneider mainly for 2 reasons. They have been around a long time so I know support will be good, and the new XW-Pro has been updated with a lot more processing power and memory so it can be updated to add features and improve performance, and Schneider has a history of making their products a long time and rolling out those updates.

Sadly, I was a bit misled on how it handles AC coupled Self Consumption. I have no issues at all with the backup performance. If I have to run off grid, I am confident it will be able to produce the power and keep my system stable. And if they do keep up their record of updating and improving, I am hopeful they will get the self consumption part working better.

I don't have enough info on people running the Sol-Ark yet to be confident in it's features with AC coupling. The Skybox though does look great, and I am a bit disappointed I didn't go that way right now. Having the ability to use consumption CT's built in is a big help for Self Consumption operation. The Schneider can add them, but the programming for it is still limited and it is not cheap.
 
The Skybox though does look great, and I am a bit disappointed I didn't go that way right now. Having the ability to use consumption CT's built in is a big help for Self Consumption operation. The Schneider can add them, but the programming for it is still limited and it is not cheap.
I have not found the need for external CTs on my Skybox. The Outback ones are expensive and I don't know about programming them. I tried some other CTs I had from my Neurio and was never sure I got the winding ratio correct. The only major loads outside the load panel driven by the Skybox are my AC compressor and my EV charging. I try to run those after my batteries are charging and I am exporting from the Skybox panel to net out my consumption. It is still a work in progress.
 
I have not found the need for external CTs on my Skybox. The Outback ones are expensive and I don't know about programming them. I tried some other CTs I had from my Neurio and was never sure I got the winding ratio correct. The only major loads outside the load panel driven by the Skybox are my AC compressor and my EV charging. I try to run those after my batteries are charging and I am exporting from the Skybox panel to net out my consumption. It is still a work in progress.
The new Enphase IQ Envoy has a consumption CTs and it can curtail the Enphase IQ series to no export to the grid.
 
I have drawn up a very rough flow chart of what SHOULD happen when AC coupled and on grid. With just a pair of CT's at the grid meter, the hybrid inverter has all the information it need.

Have a configuration field for "Max grid input power while charging" "Max battery charge current" "Max grid export power while inverting" "Max battery discharge current" "Battery charge time window" "Battery discharge time window"

In the morning, the sun is not quite up yet. The battery charge window opens, but we are still pulling from the grid, so it waits. Once the sun starts making power, the grid current starts to fall. It goes below the maximum grid import current, so then the charger will start to charge and the current will adjust so we stay pulling less than the max grid current while charging. If solar power increases, it keeps raising the charge current until we reach our maximum charge rate, at which point, any less load or more solar with reduce the draw from the grid even more. This Max grid consumption could be close to zero. When the batteries become full, the charge current must stop, so it will allow the grid export current to climb as it has no way to control that.

At some point, it will reach the end of the charge window, and that will also stop charging, if the batteries did not get full.

Then the export time window begins. If the solar is pushing out past the Max grid export limit, it won't start inverting, but as the sun falls and/or load increases, then the inverter will start pushing current to try and keep the system at the max export limit. If the loads become too great, and it reaches the maximum battery discharge power, or the battery is running low, then the export current will have to drop off and you may have to start buying power again to cover the loads. If the load falls again (A/C compressor cycles off) the export current will rise again, and the inverter output will drop to keep the export at the desired power. This can also be set to zero export.

I also see allowing multiple charge and export windows, with separate current settings in each window. I do not suggest more than one charge and discharge cycle per day, but it could go to a faster charge when we know the sun is well up, or a higher export current for an hour to help run A/C but limit it later to preserve battery power.

In each time window, it should have it's own battery voltage and/or state of charge limit values. It should have a choice if you want it to charge even from a higher state of charge, rather than waiting for the low "must charge" setting like it does now.

And also add a complete separate set of charge and invert power limit setting when the system detects it is off grid, and another for on generator?

With all the hype about the increased memory and processing power, these should be easy features for them to add.
 
I may add the CT's to my Envoy, just so I can monitor the power flow locally instead of waiting a day or two to get it off of SCE's web site
 
I may add the CT's to my Envoy, just so I can monitor the power flow locally instead of waiting a day or two to get it off of SCE's web site
That could work. I also use a Rainforest zigbee device that reads the zigbee from the meter and sends it to the cloud so you can see it instantly. I have some on SCE meters and one on the PGE meter. I will have to check, I think SCE said they were cancelling that program. Here is a link
I don't know where I saw something about cancelling that program but I am still getting data from a rental building in SCE territory.

I think it cost a little more than the Envoy CTs but I got that before I got the CTs. I actually have too much data and need to consolidate or focus on the ones that can trigger some action.
 
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I spoke with AltE store about my system. The guy I've been working with thinks I will do best sticking with some micro inverters.
Probably because of the few panels I placed on the south roof. I don't think optimizers handle different directions in a string as well as micro inverters.
It is the same price for 34 optimizers as it is for 8 micro inverters because of extra equipment needed to use the micro inverters.
This stuff isn't easy to figure out. Since I am over paneling, I am fairly sure I could forget the micro inverters and optimizers and still get enough power to cover all of my needs. I will have an ass kicking system in any case so I need to stop over thinking this. o_O
 
There is a mistake in my statement above. The reason the quotes were close to the same is because the Tigo rapid shut down modules were replaced with Tigo rapid shut down with optimizer modules. Those modules were only $14 more each. So, it wasn't because of the extra equipment needed to use micro inverters.

People have mentioned that they weren't comfortable with Sol-Ark because they aren't an established company and they are worried about support. And that is a big consideration with me too. But I can say that Sol-Ark tech support got back to me quickly when I had questions. I stumped the first guy that I talked to so he passed me on to someone that could answer my questions. AltE store seems to like Sol-Ark too. And they also seem to be pretty good for support.

Sol-Ark also has a bunch of preset modes available. Here are few - GRID SELL, METER ZERO, TIME OF USE, SMART LOAD, PEAK SHAVING.

And these grid modes -
a. Grid Sell: maximum watts sold to grid
b. Limited To Home: Limits power produced by the system to match the demand of the home
c. Limited To Load: Limits power produced by the system to match the demand of connected loads
d. Time of Use: Use battery power to support the programmed mode at selectable times/watts/DoD
 
I haven't completely read through this thread, but there was question about UL listed batteries.

For California all parts of a battery back up must be UL listed per the 2019 CEC (480.3)
Luckily my local AHJ still is on the 2016 CEC which doesn't include that prevision.

My permit has been approved for a Schneider XW Pro and Chevy Bolt cells. But, is on hold because of the charge/discharge issues the GXMnow has experienced. I may rewrite the permit to another inverter. Time will tell.
 
I don't think care about the batteries here. If they do, I'll get a small one to pass inspection.
My batteries are going outside of my house. Probably in a air conditioned detached shed.
 
Good point about the shed, I left off the part where the battery needs to be 5 feet from any building or property line. Again, this is just my AHJ, and may have only been because the cells are lithium or not UL listed.
 
Not yet. Plans have been put on hold. With covid my second "beer money" job had all the hours pulled. So, I lost all my vacation and toy funding. I did just get a promotion at my day job. This may move back up the priority list and resume progress.
 
I was just curious. I don't want to build a shed 5' from my house and put my inverter and batteries in it.
I decided to put them in the garage.
 
The inverter doesn't need to be in the shed. And it doesn't need to be in a shed. A box or enclosure is enough.
 
Just plan it right, for the shortest DC run possible
I will have the inverter on the inside garage wall closest to the battery.

5' from the garage
2' inside the battery box
5' inside the garage to the inverter
12' of 0000 copper has less than 1% voltage drop (at 20' voltage drop is about 1.4%). And by the city's calculations I was required to go 0000 anyways. So not much extra expense.
 
We'll see. I don't have a good spot 5 feet from my electrical box.
I'm fairly sure I would have to go to the back yard which is more like 35'
 
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