Sol-Ark 15K Rejected by PG&E in California

[Ampster]

Of course particular case is a particular case

And the topic of this s thread is about PG&E.

 

[Goboatingnow]

ha..
energy companies were privaticed in the 2000, only they werent..
they are owned here by german and swedish government.
electricty price is set by the highest cost producer : gas
orriginally instated to support going greener, now that 89% of electricity here is wind generated its just to shift wealth.

there is serious talk here to once again deprivatise the grid , as it should be

same for natural gas..
we're sitting on the biggest gas bubble in the western hemisphere here, but because of eu we cannot sell that to our own for less than market price, and are obligated to sell 90% to the eu at prices set in the 90's...

screw the eu, and the local politicians

I agree actually , most privatisation was a whitewash as governments retained “ golden shares “. I would personally kept the grid in full state ownership as the grid privatisation was a “ construct “ and an illusion . The EU centrally is modifying its perspective so I think a return to full or partial public ownership may be an increasing phenomenon. I think COVID has shown people what aggressive state intervention has done over poor private initiatives so there’s more expectation now for national Gov to “ step in “ whenever a problem arises.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out

 

[Kornbread]

I used to think so. But am believing it less these days.

IIRC, here in Missouri, you should be able to look up the deed to your land to find the answer. Most people do not own mineral rights for what is under their land.

 

[fafrd]

Off grid is the way to go ..so if your social credit score gets too low for something you posted on facebook or that FJB flag in your front yard instead of the approved rainbow one they can't just shut your inverter down. These psychopaths are serious...you will own nothing and you will be happy.

Be careful what you wish for…

 

[realpinochet]

Be careful what you wish for…

I wish the government would just leave us alone and keep their hands out of our pockets...mabye stop warmongering to. Not too greedy of a ask is it?

 

[David S]

I agree actually , most privatisation was a whitewash as governments retained “ golden shares “. I would personally kept the grid in full state ownership as the grid privatisation was a “ construct “ and an illusion . The EU centrally is modifying its perspective so I think a return to full or partial public ownership may be an increasing phenomenon. I think COVID has shown people what aggressive state intervention has done over poor private initiatives so there’s more expectation now for national Gov to “ step in “ whenever a problem arises.

It will be interesting to see how this all plays out

Unfortunately, the government isn't actually good at anything, so if we try to hand it back to them, it will be even worse than it is now.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Unfortunately, the government isn't actually good at anything, so if we try to hand it back to them, it will be even worse than it is now.

They are! They are excellent at being wasteful and intrusive.

 

[Goboatingnow]

Unfortunately, the government isn't actually good at anything, so if we try to hand it back to them, it will be even worse than it is now.

A perspective not shared by many , state run systems are like anything somevate great some are mediocre. Simply being commercial or privately owned doesn’t mean it’s well run either

 

[Goboatingnow]

I wish the government would just leave us alone and keep their hands out of our pockets...mabye stop warmongering to. Not too greedy of a ask is it?

A b

 

[Goboatingnow]

I wish the government would just leave us alone and keep their hands out of our pockets...mabye stop warmongering to. Not too greedy of a ask is it?

A very peculiar perspective. Personally I want Gov controlled education health , housing social welfare etc and social policy oh and roads and public transport to boot. Certainly commercial enterprises shouldn’t run monopoly sectors or manage key social programmes.

Warmongering being a big issue Eisenhower was right. Dismantle the military industrial complex to stop warmongering afaik

 

[Goboatingnow]

They are! They are excellent at being wasteful and intrusive.

Rather like Twitter according to musk

 

[Tecnodave]

There is no government like no government

 

[Goboatingnow]

There is no government like no government

I’m sure the peoples in Iraq , Afghanistan and occupied Ukraine made have an alternative perspective

Seemingly the US is clearly unable to create efficient governments basecvov the attitude here anyway. Elsewhere people largely support their governments and like them to run things.

Anyway , private industry hasn’t showered itself in glory either.

Anyway it’s irelevant , people don’t want Govs to go away and no evidence they are.

 

[400bird]

 

[robby]

I wonder if this is also connected to Tesla cancelling orders in California and some other States?
I am not sure if they are getting out of the Solar business or is this confined to just a handful of States.

 

[Supervstech]

I’d hate to have to move this thread to the chit chat forum, but all the political rhetoric is pushing it that way…
Keep the posts on topic, or I guess it’ll have to be moved…

 

[Goboatingnow]

They are! They are excellent at being wasteful and intrusive.

And good at governing. Society needs governing

 

[timselectric]

I’d hate to have to move this thread to the chit chat forum, but all the political rhetoric is pushing it that way…
Keep the posts on topic, or I guess it’ll have to be moved…

Please do.
It's so far off the rails, it will never find its way back. lol

 

[Calvin98]

PG&E deserves blame for lots of things but in this case it's really not their fault. The advanced inverter requirements (CA Rule 21) were set by CPUC. So, all CA PoCo's (PG&E, SCE, SDG&E, etc.) are obligated to follow the rule.

From the SF EXAMINER
"As The San Francisco Examiner revealed last summer, several current and former CPUC officials have intimate connections with the energy utilities they are supposed to regulate. Commission President Michael Peevey is a former CEO of SoCal Edison. The agency’s top lawyer, Frank Lindh, worked at PG&E for 16 years. Delaney Hunter, a former CPUC government affairs chief, became an energy lobbyist in 2008. Former Executive Director Steve Larson left the CPUC in 2007 to work at a natural gas company. Ex-Commissioner Jessie J. Knight now leads San Diego Gas & Electric."

 

[jrcromer]

What confuses me about VPPs / utilities dispatching power on-demand is how it works with utility’s own TOU rates.

By definition the utility needs the power when it is most expensive and that’s also when the customer needs the power to have low electric bills.

It seems inevitable that VPP and TOU rates will conflict with each other.

I suppose it’s not the worse deal in the world if there is an incentive involved. But in my experience incentives go away and red tape remains…

 

[Ampster]

What confuses me about VPPs / utilities dispatching power on-demand is how it works with utility’s own TOU rates.

By definition the utility needs the power when it is most expensive and that’s also when the customer needs the power to have low electric bills.

I don't know the specifics of Tesla's arrangement with Powerwall users. I do know that given enough capacity of a system and some load management, there can be enough power to cover loads and do export for a short period of time. Sometimes a short two or three hour cut in demand or increase of power is all that might be needed to stabilize the grid during that period. The pricing mechanisms are complex and as a result confusing because they include elements of standby payments to power generators, just for being able to dispatch power quickly as demand ramps up.

It seems inevitable that VPP and TOU rates will conflict with each other.

The concept of high TOU rates during peak times was to discourage consumptiin during peak times and compensate power generators for bringing on power during those times. At least that was the theory in California and for a while Peaker Plants were doing that. Now grid scale battery plants have replaced peakers because they can operate with less cost and less pollution. At least that was the scenario in September when brownouts were avoided in California.

 

[LittleLebowski]

I’m sure the peoples in Iraq , Afghanistan and occupied Ukraine made have an alternative perspective

Seemingly the US is clearly unable to create efficient governments basecvov the attitude here anyway. Elsewhere people largely support their governments and like them to run things.

Anyway , private industry hasn’t showered itself in glory either.

Anyway it’s irelevant , people don’t want Govs to go away and no evidence they are.

Ever been to any of those countries in person?

 

[Goboatingnow]

Ever been to any of those countries in person?

Yes some of them. Aghanistan in the late 70s was amazing , Iraq was equally a fan imaging place to visit before the shah was toppled ( I learned to play a lot of backgammon )

 

[LittleLebowski]

Yes some of them. Aghanistan in the late 70s was amazing , Iraq was equally a fan imaging place to visit before the shah was toppled ( I learned to play a lot of backgammon )

They've...changed since then.

 

[Goboatingnow]

They've...changed since then.

Sure but the point is yes I was there and it answers the nonsense comment about good government is no government. Because one can quickly see what happened when these countries lost their governments and descended into chaos.

Societies need good reliable governments to function properly and to ensure fairness etc. it’s nonsense to spout “ bumper sticker” politics

That’s all I was saying