Sol-Ark 15k will only invert 13k of DC PV to AC

[Clint-L]

Here’s graphs showing it capping at 13k. Once in morning and once in evening you can see where it drops out and the voltage spikes. I do expect voltage to spike with the MPPT would halt the amperage being received. The 600v spikes were back on the older software. I could post it, but not sure it’s very relevant since they seemed to have addressed it with this latest update.

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I actually dropped by my Solar Installer near me yesterday and during our conversation I asked him about this problem and he said he has installed four of the 15K but only two of them had the maximum amount of PV. He said he is seeing the full 15K and a bit when it's 11am and the batteries are all charging. So yes they do work at the advertised 15KW with 19KW of PV.

The funny thing is that looking at your Ipv graph it does not look like clipping. It almost seems like the PV array is just not going any higher than 14+ Amps. By any chance have you tried removing one string and trying it on another inverter to see if it does the 6KW that is expected?

When my 12K clips it's a hard clip that does not vary.
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Have you just discussed with Sol-Ark that this is probably a lemon Inverter and needs to be exchanged or repaired?
I know it's painful taking out something that is working 80% of the way and then having nothing and waiting on a replacement but it's better then frustrating yourself over a problem that may be due to a damaged circuit.

Yes. When we disconnect one array, the other two can hit over 20 amps and produce a combined 12k or so with full sun of course.

Mine definitely is flatlining at 13200 or so.

On the basic screen > advanced tab under max load limit it is defaulted at 12k. If we bring it up to 15k, the inverter ramps the PV up to the same amount (13200 or so) and drops to zero. On the old software, it was actually disconnecting from the grid every time when it would hit that top number and recycle.

I agree, if it is not software, then I have a bad Solark. :-(

 

[Clint-L]

I actually dropped by my Solar Installer near me yesterday and during our conversation I asked him about this problem and he said he has installed four of the 15K but only two of them had the maximum amount of PV. He said he is seeing the full 15K and a bit when it's 11am and the batteries are all charging. So yes they do work at the advertised 15KW with 19KW of PV.

The funny thing is that looking at your Ipv graph it does not look like clipping. It almost seems like the PV array is just not going any higher than 14+ Amps. By any chance have you tried removing one string and trying it on another inverter to see if it does the 6KW that is expected?

When my 12K clips it's a hard clip that does not vary.
View attachment 118153

Have you just discussed with Sol-Ark that this is probably a lemon Inverter and needs to be exchanged or repaired?
I know it's painful taking out something that is working 80% of the way and then having nothing and waiting on a replacement but it's better then frustrating yourself over a problem that may be due to a damaged circuit.

Just realized another question to ask based on what you said…. I’m definitely seeing a cap at 12k on what is going back to the grid, but that should be 15k. I wonder if the installer you know is seeing a 12k on the grid sell as the cap?

 

[SolarTime]

On the basic screen > advanced tab under max load limit it is defaulted at 12k. If we bring it up to 15k, the inverter ramps the PV up to the same amount (13200 or so) and drops to zero.

Does this setting need to be changed in order for the 15K to use more than 12,000 watts of PV (or grid?) ?

 

[robby]

Just realized another question to ask based on what you said…. I’m definitely seeing a cap at 12k on what is going back to the grid, but that should be 15k. I wonder if the installer you know is seeing a 12k on the grid sell as the cap?

Dunno, I never even asked if they were net metered. When I was looking into it with the power company I think the limit you can sell is 10KW, so I doubt even if any of them are selling, he would be exceeding that.

 

[Clint-L]

Does this setting need to be changed in order for the 15K to use more than 12,000 watts of PV (or grid?) ?

Possibly, but if I change it to anything higher, as soon as the sell back hits 12k and the PV hits around 13k, the PV drops to 0 watts. Then the PV ramps back up over about a 1 minute or less period. It then just repeats again in the same cycle over and over until the panels would be producing less.

Any two of the arrays is no issue. It only happens when hitting the 12k grid sell max which I cannot change.

 

[robby]

I agree, if it is not software, then I have a bad Solark. :-(

I kind of doubt it's a software issue. Something as big as that would never have slipped through the cracks.
There is always a few bad units in every batch, the main thing is dealing with a company that will do quick warranty service and not jerk you around.
Have you approached them on that subject yet?
Do you have the dongle installed 24/7 so that they can actually login and see the Data History? That would probably be the quickest way to convince them that it's not a setting and that it is a real hardware problem.

I take it that you have had them log into the system and check the settings right?

 

[Clint-L]

I kind of doubt it's a software issue. Something as big as that would never have slipped through the cracks.
There is always a few bad units in every batch, the main thing is dealing with a company that will do quick warranty service and not jerk you around.
Have you approached them on that subject yet?
Do you have the dongle installed 24/7 so that they can actually login and see the Data History? That would probably be the quickest way to convince them that it's not a setting and that it is a real hardware problem.

I take it that you have had them log into the system and check the settings right?

Oh yes. They have three people working on it. I did not hear a word today. I got an email yesterday that I answered right away, asking some of the same questions they asked a couple weeks back. Like do I have a rapid shutdown installed is something.

I’ve had the CT sensors start bugging out several times on this unit. And showing higher voltage in L1 than L2 to grid. It tries to sell back sometimes on only one leg. Especially if the TOU is just enabled. I’ve never seen a solark do all of these weird things. My old 12k was almost completely flawless and in the same spot for 2 years but just had less panels.

In my email to them today, I said that it sure is starting to feel like a hardware issue and can they just cross ship one. My main grid panel for my shop is on the load side of this thing because it’s wired in as a whole home pass through etc.

 

[niktak11]

Oh yes. They have three people working on it. I did not hear a word today. I got an email yesterday that I answered right away, asking some of the same questions they asked a couple weeks back. Like do I have a rapid shutdown installed is something.

I’ve had the CT sensors start bugging out several times on this unit. And showing higher voltage in L1 than L2 to grid. It tries to sell back sometimes on only one leg. Especially if the TOU is just enabled. I’ve never seen a solark do all of these weird things. My old 12k was almost completely flawless and in the same spot for 2 years but just had less panels.

In my email to them today, I said that it sure is starting to feel like a hardware issue and can they just cross ship one. My main grid panel for my shop is on the load side of this thing because it’s wired in as a whole home pass through etc.
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My sol-ark does that too when it disconnects from the grid (shows higher L1 than L2, but the total voltage is correct). It shows the correct values as soon as the relay closes again. Also you need to use both sets of battery terminals if you're gonna be charging or discharging with more than 160A.

 

[dsimonl]

Mine doesn't have any issue. I routinely see 17Kw PV, and sell back 16Kw. Today was a bit overcast, but still saw good production on my 17.64Kw array.

 

[robby]

Also you need to use both sets of battery terminals if you're gonna be charging or discharging with more than 160A.

Yes he needs dual wires for each pole. Also while he is at it those Ferrites need to have both a positive and negative wire running through each one.

 

[robby]

Oh yes. They have three people working on it. I did not hear a word today. I got an email yesterday that I answered right away, asking some of the same questions they asked a couple weeks back. Like do I have a rapid shutdown installed is something.

I’ve had the CT sensors start bugging out several times on this unit. And showing higher voltage in L1 than L2 to grid. It tries to sell back sometimes on only one leg. Especially if the TOU is just enabled. I’ve never seen a solark do all of these weird things. My old 12k was almost completely flawless and in the same spot for 2 years but just had less panels.

In my email to them today, I said that it sure is starting to feel like a hardware issue and can they just cross ship one. My main grid panel for my shop is on the load side of this thing because it’s wired in as a whole home pass through etc.

It's good to see that they are working on it full force.
I would imagine the one thing that worries them is getting it back and then finding out it works perfectly on their panels and wiring.
I know when we had problems like this we really wanted to send someone to the location to actually see the problem in action.
I would assume that once they have gotten to the limit of what they can do remotely they are just going to want to get it back to their lab and see if they can replicate the issue.

 

[SolarRich]

Those ferrite toroids you show in "Fig A" are in the inverter. I have those ferrites about midway between the 12k Sol-Ark and the batteries.
Do you think this makes a difference?
In the 12K manual it does not specify where to place them on the wire.
What do the ferrites do? I suspect they are being used to suppress noise on the battery cables.

In the prior AIO inverter I had, the lead acid batteries were used as a filter for the noise from the DC-DC PWM converter in the unit. I learned this on a call with the engineers who were asking me how the unit was performing. I suspect I was one of the first installs.
So in that case the noise would be coming from the unit.
In the case of the Sol-Ark, do we know what noise they are trying to filter out with those ferrites? Noise picked up on the battery cables and coming into the unit or noise from the Sol-Ark?

 

[niktak11]

Those ferrite toroids you show in "Fig A" are in the inverter. I have those ferrites about midway between the 12k Sol-Ark and the batteries.
Do you think this makes a difference?
In the 12K manual it does not specify where to place them on the wire.
What do the ferrites do? I suspect they are being used to suppress noise on the battery cables.

In the prior AIO inverter I had, the lead acid batteries were used as a filter for the noise from the DC-DC PWM converter in the unit. I learned this on a call with the engineers who were asking me how the unit was performing. I suspect I was one of the first installs.
So in that case the noise would be coming from the unit.
In the case of the Sol-Ark, do we know what noise they are trying to filter out with those ferrites? Noise picked up on the battery cables and coming into the unit or noise from the Sol-Ark?

I think it's the latter

 

[Prince Of Darkness]

Those ferrite toroids you show in "Fig A" are in the inverter. I have those ferrites about midway between the 12k Sol-Ark and the batteries.
Do you think this makes a difference?
In the 12K manual it does not specify where to place them on the wire.
What do the ferrites do? I suspect they are being used to suppress noise on the battery cables.

In the prior AIO inverter I had, the lead acid batteries were used as a filter for the noise from the DC-DC PWM converter in the unit. I learned this on a call with the engineers who were asking me how the unit was performing. I suspect I was one of the first installs.
So in that case the noise would be coming from the unit.
In the case of the Sol-Ark, do we know what noise they are trying to filter out with those ferrites? Noise picked up on the battery cables and coming into the unit or noise from the Sol-Ark?

I know no specifics of Sol-Arks, but...

Generally these toroidal cores on DC cables are to make a Common-Mode choke. And, YES, one would want to route both the DC+ and DC-- cables through the same core (or stack of cores). This is important, as running both positive and negative conductors through the same core, cancels the DC current, and essentially prevents core saturation from relatively large DC currents, leaving, only the noise currents.

Core saturation can result in a dramatic reduction in the effective inductance of the choke, and possibly, overheating of the core, which can be damaging.

Usually, this common mode choke would be placed, as close as possible to the noise source.

All, IMO, POD.

 

[robby]

What @Prince Of Darkness said. ?

 

[Clint-L]

Thanks for the info on the ferrites. I’ve never really felt like I could notice a difference installing them in both. The reason I didn’t is because I couldn’t because the conduit hole isn’t big enough for the 4/0 cable to put two of them through the same one and close enough for the ferrites. I’ll just have to move them to the gutter below if I’m going to put them on both.

I’m not really thinking anything to do with the ferrites would be related to the inverter capping out at 13,200 grid sell?? :-(.

 

[Solar Guppy]

I’m not really thinking anything to do with the ferrites would be related to the inverter capping out at 13,200 grid sell?? :-(.

Since another poster mention it works fine and your description is that is resets when at the 13.2kw level, I suspect it maybe you are getting to much voltage rise on one leg ( grid port ) causing a trip and restart?

When selling at 13kw, what is the voltage on the inverter? needs to be below 254 or 127 per leg ( possibly 264 or 132 per leg ) depending on the grid sell profile.

 

[robby]

Thanks for the info on the ferrites. I’ve never really felt like I could notice a difference installing them in both. The reason I didn’t is because I couldn’t because the conduit hole isn’t big enough for the 4/0 cable to put two of them through the same one and close enough for the ferrites. I’ll just have to move them to the gutter below if I’m going to put them on both.

I’m not really thinking anything to do with the ferrites would be related to the inverter capping out at 13,200 grid sell?? :-(.

I don't think it has anything to do with it but if your adding in a second battery cable and messing with the wiring you might as well put the ferrites on the right way. Putting them in the gutter is better than the way they are now.

 

[Clint-L]

I don't think it has anything to do with it but if your adding in a second battery cable and messing with the wiring you might as well put the ferrites on the right way. Putting them in the gutter is better than the way they are now.

I’ll move them to gutter, but 4/0 wire @10 feet will handle 230 amps with a 2% drop. I generally use the Southwire app to make sure I determine the cable sizes needed. Is using both terminals for 160amp plus a SolArk recommendation based on their terminal input capacities and the breakers? That would seem feasible, because I noticed two circuit breakers there.

 

[Clint-L]

Since another poster mention it works fine and your description is that is resets when at the 13.2kw level, I suspect it maybe you are getting to much voltage rise on one leg ( grid port ) causing a trip and restart?

When selling at 13kw, what is the voltage on the inverter? needs to be below 254 or 127 per leg ( possibly 264 or 132 per leg ) depending on the grid sell profile.

I don’t see anything in the history, but of course it is 5 minute snapshots. I will try to watch this closer as soon as I can in real time on the inverter. Unfortunately, looks like we won’t get any full sun for the next couple days. It’s pretty cloudy here in Oklahoma. :-(