Solar pump inverter for a Pentair IntelliFlo 2 VST? confused about pump power input/consumption

[pookguy88]

So I'm trying to find a solution/inverter to power this pool pump with PV panels and I'm looking at this:

Growatt 2.2kW 3HP Solar Pump Inverter l Water Pump Inverter | Grid-Assisted | SPI 2200TL2-HV​

(non-affiliate link to the inverter: https://signaturesolar.com/growatt-2-2kw-3hp-l-spi-22000tl2-hv/)

Now, I'm having issues finding the specs of the pump, it's a 3hp pump but it says max power input is 3200W, does that mean this inverter wouldn't work?

I'm assuming grid-assisted doesn't mean 2.2kw from solar + whatever else is needed from the grid? I'm assuming it just switches between grid and PV?

Trying to find any pump inverter that's > 2.2kw is a PITA
here is the spec sheet for the pump, doesn't say much on power consumption:

https://codypools.com/wp-content/uploads/IntelliFlo2VSTOM.pdf

Thanks

 

[BentleyJ]

Here is the electrical data for the pump. Lists electrical consumption as 16A at 230V which is 3,680 Watts. Also then lists KW as 3.2 so this must be the output or amount of "work" produced. Implies an efficiency of 87%, much better than a standard induction motor.

IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pool Pump

The IntelliFlo VSF pump is the first of its kind to respond to changes in your pool’s environment in order to maintain a preprogrammed flow rate. There’s no more guesswork—just set the desired flow rate and the pump will adjust as needed. It’s like cruise control for your pump. And, the...

www.pentair.com

Since its a variable speed pump it has a built in soft start function due it ramping up to speed via the controller. If you set the RPM low enough the pump probably would run on the smaller inverter because it uses much less electricity BUT then the flow rate and pressure goes down. Also when starting up, I believe the pump first goes into a high RPM Priming mode. As long as this can be programmed to a lower speed as well you can reduce electrical needs to a large degree. How big is the pool and what flow rate do you actually need.
Flow rates vs. RPM are published but I couldn't find a chart that correlated input watts to RPM.

For example, I have the now discontinued SuperFlo VS 1.5 Hp pump on a small pond/wading pool. At 3450 RPM it would require about 1800 Watts. At 1400 RPM it uses only 200 Watts and at 1510 RPM it uses 240 Watts. Very large reduction in electric consumption but still able to provide a decent flow for the waterfall with about an 8' lift plus a small pressure drop through the filter. These pumps are pricey but worth it in my opinion. Its a work horse, runs day after day for years with no issues at all.

Bottom line: You can go cheap on the inverter and maybe get by for a while but to get reliable operation and full utilization of the pump I would be looking at an inverter in the 4kW range. Something beefy like a SW4048.

BTW, curious. Why would someone spend so much money on a high end pump then go completely opposite on the power source. Its like putting golf cart tires on your Mercedes. Just sayin!!

 

[pookguy88]

Here is the electrical data for the pump. Lists electrical consumption as 16A at 230V which is 3,680 Watts. Also then lists KW as 3.2 so this must be the output or amount of "work" produced. Implies an efficiency of 87%, much better than a standard induction motor.

IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pool Pump

The IntelliFlo VSF pump is the first of its kind to respond to changes in your pool’s environment in order to maintain a preprogrammed flow rate. There’s no more guesswork—just set the desired flow rate and the pump will adjust as needed. It’s like cruise control for your pump. And, the...

www.pentair.com

Since its a variable speed pump it has a built in soft start function due it ramping up to speed via the controller. If you set the RPM low enough the pump probably would run on the smaller inverter because it uses much less electricity BUT then the flow rate and pressure goes down. Also when starting up, I believe the pump first goes into a high RPM Priming mode. As long as this can be programmed to a lower speed as well you can reduce electrical needs to a large degree. How big is the pool and what flow rate do you actually need.
Flow rates vs. RPM are published but I couldn't find a chart that correlated input watts to RPM.

For example, I have the now discontinued SuperFlo VS 1.5 Hp pump on a small pond/wading pool. At 3450 RPM it would require about 1800 Watts. At 1400 RPM it uses only 200 Watts and at 1510 RPM it uses 240 Watts. Very large reduction in electric consumption but still able to provide a decent flow for the waterfall with about an 8' lift plus a small pressure drop through the filter. These pumps are pricey but worth it in my opinion. Its a work horse, runs day after day for years with no issues at all.

Bottom line: You can go cheap on the inverter and maybe get by for a while but to get reliable operation and full utilization of the pump I would be looking at an inverter in the 4kW range. Something beefy like a SW4048.

BTW, curious. Why would someone spend so much money on a high end pump then go completely opposite on the power source. Its like putting golf cart tires on your Mercedes. Just sayin!!

wow, thank for that detailed reply, you seem to know your pumps

so yes, when it's running at it's normal rpm, it actually uses very little power, but like you said, it's the priming that uses all the power.

I guess I have to find out what the peak power use is when it's priming, the normal flow rate is pretty low.

that SW4048 inverter you referenced, do you have any experience with it? is it solar?

 

[Hedges]

Not so sure that priming uses much power. It might be done at higher RPM, but not pushing water, not doing much work.

I used to have a 2 HP induction motor pump fed by 240V from the grid. It would run all day on a 15A breaker.
I replace with a 2 HP 3-phase motor and 1.5kW non-power-factor-corrected Hitachi VFD. At full speed it trips 20A breaker after a while.
Power factor is an issue for AC input, not for PV input.

16A at 230V is 3,680 VA, not Watts.

data sheet lists a 4000W inverter as well.

https://signaturesolar.com/content/documents/GROWATT/SPI%20750_4000TL2-HV%20%20Datasheet.pdf

The Intelliflow is a pump with built-in VFD.

The Growatt can drive single or 3-phase. You could couple it with a plain 3-phase pump (no built-in VFD)

"Rated output current (4000W) 25A(1PH)/16A(3PH)"

If it will vary RPM to maintain MPPT (I haven't dug into the details), that could be a good match to PV without using grid for support. Single phase motor wouldn't like varied RPM below about 50 Hz.

Intelliflow likely has other features, like detecting someone entrapped by inlets and shutting off (probably less important if your pool has multiple inlets and certain types of inlet covers.)

 

[BentleyJ]

guess I have to find out what the peak power use is when it's priming, the normal flow rate is pretty low.

Not familiar with that exact pump model number, the priming RPM most likely can be set to a lower value but some caution is advised since too low will cause incomplete or no prime depending on a number of factors like lift and length of suction pipe.

that SW4048 inverter you referenced, do you have any experience with it? is it solar?

SW4048 is a Schneider inverter/Charger. Its a dependable inverter with a good track record. Since the SW does not have a built in solar charge controller it is not specifically a solar inverter but the avaiilable Schneider charge controllers integrate very well on the Xanbus network.

 

[BentleyJ]

Not so sure that priming uses much power. It might be done at higher RPM, but not pushing water, not doing much work.

Initially this is true when the impeller is not flooded, but isn't that the whole point of a prime cycle to fill the suction pipe and strainer? As soon as this happens the motor draw will increase substantially until the Prime timer ends (about 5 min) and the RPM drops to the programmed speed setting.

 

[Hedges]

Agreed, open-loop prime time would do that.
Powered by grid through a thermal-mechanical breaker should be no problem.
Inverter can't take overload for long.

VFD should be torque limiting, protecting itself by reducing PWM.

Solar pump controllers are appealing, much simplifies utilizing available power.
But those panels are dedicated to the pump, not available for other loads.
Since it also accepts AC input, I think it should have CT and other inputs so can be used as a dump load targeting zero export. For an off-grid system, more difficult to recognize curtailed PV production and utilize it. At least DC coupled; an AC coupled system, this can be done by responding to frequency shift and ramping up RPM before GT PV inverters ramp down.

 

[pookguy88]

would something like this (https://sungoldpower.com/products/6000w-48v-hybrid-solar-inverter-split-phase-120-240vac) work?

 

[Hedges]

Hybrid inverters can feed pool pump so long as they can supply the motor starting surge (conventional motor), or a variable speed VFD motor should start without surge.
But the motor will run at the speed it is set for, even if power draw exceeds PV. Then battery gets drawn down, then it shuts off.
If inverter has a battery SoC signal, maybe it can switch the pump on and off.

If PV/inverter/battery is much larger than pool pump needs it can power your house and other loads too.

If you have grid, a grid-tied PV system can be a good way to go. PV "charges" the grid, credits on your meter & bill. Pump draws from grid.

A pool pump controller that has MPPT input from PV and varies motor speed according to power available could be attractive.

 

[Bajanmonkey]

Here is the electrical data for the pump. Lists electrical consumption as 16A at 230V which is 3,680 Watts. Also then lists KW as 3.2 so this must be the output or amount of "work" produced. Implies an efficiency of 87%, much better than a standard induction motor.

IntelliFlo® VSF Variable Speed and Flow Pool Pump

The IntelliFlo VSF pump is the first of its kind to respond to changes in your pool’s environment in order to maintain a preprogrammed flow rate. There’s no more guesswork—just set the desired flow rate and the pump will adjust as needed. It’s like cruise control for your pump. And, the...

www.pentair.com

Since its a variable speed pump it has a built in soft start function due it ramping up to speed via the controller. If you set the RPM low enough the pump probably would run on the smaller inverter because it uses much less electricity BUT then the flow rate and pressure goes down. Also when starting up, I believe the pump first goes into a high RPM Priming mode. As long as this can be programmed to a lower speed as well you can reduce electrical needs to a large degree. How big is the pool and what flow rate do you actually need.
Flow rates vs. RPM are published but I couldn't find a chart that correlated input watts to RPM.

For example, I have the now discontinued SuperFlo VS 1.5 Hp pump on a small pond/wading pool. At 3450 RPM it would require about 1800 Watts. At 1400 RPM it uses only 200 Watts and at 1510 RPM it uses 240 Watts. Very large reduction in electric consumption but still able to provide a decent flow for the waterfall with about an 8' lift plus a small pressure drop through the filter. These pumps are pricey but worth it in my opinion. Its a work horse, runs day after day for years with no issues at all.

Bottom line: You can go cheap on the inverter and maybe get by for a while but to get reliable operation and full utilization of the pump I would be looking at an inverter in the 4kW range. Something beefy like a SW4048.

BTW, curious. Why would someone spend so much money on a high end pump then go completely opposite on the power source. Its like putting golf cart tires on your Mercedes. Just sayin!!

Just some additional info for everyone. I have an older 3.2hp Pentair Intelliflow VS pump. At about 1800 RPM it pulls about 880-900 watts. At 1500 RPM it pulls around 650-660 watts.

 

[mswlogo]

I had one of those pumps. You rarely run those pumps at full watts unless cleaning the pool or something.

Conventional pumps run at full speed for a say 4-8 hrs a day. If you cut the work in half it cost 1/4 the power.

What you do is calculate how many gallons do you want to filter a day. Often people shoot for 1-2 full pools worth of filtered water.

My pump pulled 85watts 24/7 and cost like $60 a season to run (MA electric rates 5 years ago).

And what’s nice is the water is always moving to.

Some people run on high speed for a short while like 1hr a day to agitate the water.

That pump is very powerful. Even on high for vacuuming I had it set max 50%. Otherwise it would blow out my pipes.

Sorry to not answer your question. But don’t look at peak power. Look at kWh needed. And you need to do a bit of measurements to know that. I measured actual gallons it could pump once installed. To figure out speed to run.

If you only run when sun is out you’ll need a LOT more kWh to do the same amount of filtering.