diy solar

diy solar

Travel Trailer 24v LiFePo4 / Solar / Charger / Inverter system setup...

One more word of caution. Before you purchase those Q-cell panels, make sure they fit on the roof of your RV. Q-cell panels were at the top of my list. However they would not fit on the roof of my toy hauler without hanging over the side edges, which wouldn't work for my mounting method. Overhang on an RV is not a good thing.

I used a CAD program to map out the roof of my trailer. Then I test fit a number of solar panels on the roof. That quickly pointed out that my original plan of four 200 watt panels wasn't going to fit. Plan B was the Q-cells. Plan C ended up being two 320 watt panels, which were an ideal fit.

When assessing the space on the roof, keep in mind that the standard Z brackets that most people use increases with width of each panel by almost 3".
 
When you put in a 24v system you now need adapters to handle both 12v output and 12v input. That right there adds cost for the adapters (converters, chargers, whatever you want to call them), cost for the wires, lugs, heat shrink, etc. would I not be only transferring 24v to 12v once to power the 12v system in the trailer? I wouldnt need a converter for each item? A 40amp 24-12v converter on amazon is $60. wouldn't the only thing inputting power back to the battery be the solar charge controller and a shore power charger?

Since you do not have a generator, I'll assume you don't have a fifth wheel trailer. The landing gear and leveling systems in a fifth wheel have very high amp loads. A travel trailer may have a powered tongue jack. My tongue jack has a rated 25 amp draw. Your 24v-12v buck converter needs to be rated for at least that amount. With wiring distance from the LiFePO4 battery to the tongue jack the amp draw may be even higher. It is indeed a travel trailer, not a fifth wheel. In regards to the power tongue jack I do have one and it is also a 25A draw. The tongue jack is only about 6 feet away from where the battery, and system will be located.

That buck converter isn't 100% efficient so you have to take that into account. It also has a standby draw. It isn't much, but over time, it could draw down your LiFePO4 battery bank. But you say you'll put in a switch to turn off the buck converter when it isn't needed? Fine, more complexity, more wiring, more work, more expense. Oh, and you'll need to instruct everyone that uses the trailer on what that not so little switch does. Don't forget that the switch needs to be rated for the same amps as the converter. Luckily I am the only one who sets up the trailer. No requirement to have anyone else know the equipment, which is no change from now. I plan of having a kill switch which will isolate the Solar panels, charge controller and battery while the trailer is in storage. Wont have to worry about any phantom draws this way. the solar will keep the battery where it needs to be while not in use.

To charge the LiFePO4 battery bank from the tow vehicle, you'll need a 12v-24v DC-DC charger. The naysayers will point out that you'll need a DC-DC charger even in a straight 12v system and they are correct. However, you need a slightly more complicated DC-DC charger that most likely is more expensive because it's a boost converter to go from 12v to 24v. I will not be charging the battery at all while connected to the tow vehicle. The solar will be the primary form of charging the battery bank. secondary would be while connected to shore power.

The same issue comes up with the AC-DC converter. You need a new one that supports a proper LiFePO4 charge profile, but you also need one that is 24v. Just for giggles, I compared two IOTA Engineering AC-DC chargers. 45amp 12v and 25amp 24v. Prices on Amazon are $150 and $225, respectively. I didn't look too hard, so those prices may not be good examples. But you get the idea. Good point I will have to read about and research this more.

I have a Victron 100/50 MPPT solar charge controller connected to my 640 watts of solar on the roof of the RV. The controller can handle more watts if the system was 24v, but I don't have room on the roof for more panels. So it's a good fit for a 12v system. I am going off memory in regards to the roof layout, as my trailer is still in storage. I for sure need exact measurements and I will do a google sketchup before finalizing that. I am about 98% certain I have room for 2. May even have room for 3. 2 in the very front and 1 in the back.

24v sounds sexy. The added complexity is not.


I much appreciate your comments and thoughts on this @HRKTD

please see comments in red..
 
I was looking at Q-cells but ruled them out for a different reason. Their panels use thinner (weaker) frames and the numbers they state for front and back loading is lower than many other panels (due to the thinner, weaker frames). Lastly, their installation manual explicitly states the panels are not to be used for mobile applications.
 
Please do not respond within a quote. It makes it hard for me to quote you when I respond.

would I not be only transferring 24v to 12v once to power the 12v system in the trailer? I wouldnt need a converter for each item? A 40amp 24-12v converter on amazon is $60. wouldn't the only thing inputting power back to the battery be the solar charge controller and a shore power charger?

Correct, one converter for the 12v loads should be enough. If it isn't, a second converter can be installed in parallel.

I will not be charging the battery at all while connected to the tow vehicle. The solar will be the primary form of charging the battery bank. secondary would be while connected to shore power.

How are you going to provide power to the breakaway brake system? It depends on how you have disconnected the tow vehicle 12v circuit from the rest of the trailer.

I do not have the tow vehicle providing any charge to my LiFePO4 battery bank. However, I retained a 12v lead acid battery on the tongue that is getting a charge from the tow vehicle. The lead acid battery provides power to the breakaway brake system as well as providing power to the on-board generator.

I went with the Mission Solar 320 watt panels. They have a very high wind rating (5631 Pa/117 psf), which works well on my RV which spends a good amount of time in high wind areas (Wyoming).
 
The only reason to run a 24v pack (I do) over a 12v pack is to allow for more power through your solar controller (and reduce wiring diameter).
For your scale, I'd actually go 12v and just add more controllers when you want more panels.

That inverter probably won't really handle 2k of output, I'd expect something 1500w max from that unit.
I used one and finally upgraded to a Victron multiplus and while it was expensive, it was totally worth it. When you consider the built-in shore charging, built in ATS and hybrid operation modes it becomes very worth it. (Especially when moving up to a 24v pack.)
 
I was looking at Q-cells but ruled them out for a different reason. Their panels use thinner (weaker) frames and the numbers they state for front and back loading is lower than many other panels (due to the thinner, weaker frames). Lastly, their installation manual explicitly states the panels are not to be used for mobile applications.

What Q-cells did you look at? These Peak Duo panels look and feel robust to me. They are rated for 5400 snow load and 2400 wind. ( the smaller peak duo 300-330 panels are rated for 4000 wind) likely due to smaller surface area.

Also looking through the installation manual for these cells.. There is no mention of not mounting for mobile applications.


The only reason to run a 24v pack (I do) over a 12v pack is to allow for more power through your solar controller (and reduce wiring diameter).
For your scale, I'd actually go 12v and just add more controllers when you want more panels.

That inverter probably won't really handle 2k of output, I'd expect something 1500w max from that unit.
I used one and finally upgraded to a Victron multiplus and while it was expensive, it was totally worth it. When you consider the built-in shore charging, built in ATS and hybrid operation modes it becomes very worth it. (Especially when moving up to a 24v pack.)

I likely wont be adding any more panels. at least not to this system. Victron multiplus is likely way out of the budget, as nice as it would be. what model would you go with for my system?


How are you going to provide power to the breakaway brake system? It depends on how you have disconnected the tow vehicle 12v circuit from the rest of the trailer.

I do not have the tow vehicle providing any charge to my LiFePO4 battery bank. However, I retained a 12v lead acid battery on the tongue that is getting a charge from the tow vehicle. The lead acid battery provides power to the breakaway brake system as well as providing power to the on-board generator.

I could easily leave the 12v in the same fashion. or could I not just connect the break away to the stepped down 12v circuit off the LiFePo4 battery
 
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I used one and finally upgraded to a Victron multiplus and while it was expensive, it was totally worth it. When you consider the built-in shore charging, built in ATS and hybrid operation modes it becomes very worth it. (Especially when moving up to a 24v pack.)

Agreed on the Victron Multiplus. I'll be replacing my small inverter with a Multiplus eventually. Either a 12/2000 or a 12/3000, but likely the former as I simply don't need 3000 watts of AC power.
 
What Q-cells did you look at? These Peak Duo panels look and feel robust to me. They are rated for 5400 snow load and 2400 wind. ( the smaller peak duo 300-330 panels are rated for 4000 wind) likely due to smaller surface area.

Also looking through the installation manual for these cells.. There is no mention of not mounting for mobile applications.
OK, it looks like the 400W panels in your plan are beefier than the 300-330W versions I was looking at. Most of the panels in the low 300W range are only 1.25" thick and rated for 3600/2666 Pa while your 400W panel is 1.38" and test rated for 5400/2400 Pa. But that's still low compared to many other brands.

I went with panels that are 1.5" thick and rated at 5400/4000 Pa.

In the installation manual for the G5 series, under the Installation section there are some graphics like a comic book about safety and transport. One of the graphics state "Do not install modules on moving objects.". I take that to mean mobile applications. Maybe the manual for the G7 series has something similar.
 
OK, it looks like the 400W panels in your plan are beefier than the 300-330W versions I was looking at. Most of the panels in the low 300W range are only 1.25" thick and rated for 3600/2666 Pa while your 400W panel is 1.38" and test rated for 5400/2400 Pa. But that's still low compared to many other brands.

I went with panels that are 1.5" thick and rated at 5400/4000 Pa.

In the installation manual for the G5 series, under the Installation section there are some graphics like a comic book about safety and transport. One of the graphics state "Do not install modules on moving objects.". I take that to mean mobile applications. Maybe the manual for the G7 series has something similar.

The only panels I have found thicker are commercial grade panels which are 1.5" can you point to some panels that i can look into?

That little pictures states do not install on moving objects becasue it is a fire risk? Kind of odd that in the entire planning and installation section it doesn't discuss this. It details all kinds of dos and donts in regards to mounting requirements all of the "do's" are met by an RV roof.
 
The only panels I have found thicker are commercial grade panels which are 1.5" can you point to some panels that i can look into?

That little pictures states do not install on moving objects becasue it is a fire risk? Kind of odd that in the entire planning and installation section it doesn't discuss this. It details all kinds of dos and donts in regards to mounting requirements all of the "do's" are met by an RV roof.

The Mission Solar panel I mentioned earlier is 1.58" thick.
 
The Mission Solar panel I mentioned earlier is 1.58" thick.


I cannot seem to source Mission up here in Canada.
on a side note, it doesnt seem to be the whole answer just frame depth. I have found some Longi solar panels which are 45mm thick ( 1.75inches) and are only rated for 2400Pa wind load. And the Peak-duo g7 330 panels are only 32mm (1.25") yet rated for 4000Pa

I am guessing the quality and thickness of the back sheet and front glass must have something to do with the higher win loads aside from just frame depth.
 
Canadian Solar has panels that are 1.57". Silfab has panels that are 1.5". I wanted to get the Canadian Solar panels but my local dealer didn't have them and shipping made them too expensive for me. But the ones I looked at are rated for 6000/4000 Pa.
 
I'll admit, I chose my panels because I could get them shipped free on amazon. (100w poly rich solar's which are $80 each right now)
I arranged them into 4s3p so I get 60-70v (70 on really cold days) and it kept amps well under 20. This was partly to utilize the 10awg factory solar wiring.
Double check your layout plan for dimensions and don't forget to consider weight differences. I've been considering adding some 330ish panels and they all seem to weigh as much or a little more than three of my 100s.
 
Victron's are rated in KVA- the 2000 is 1600 watts....
Most LF inverters have a higher standby than HF ones. I haven't tested any HF that didn't meet it's specs-have hit shutdowns due to lack of battery voltage.
You cannot use a stepdown for your trailer brakes-you can use this ...

Biggest watts is good for panels-just stay clear of air conditioner and fantastic fan things-any shading quickly eats into power produced
 
I'll admit, I chose my panels because I could get them shipped free on amazon. (100w poly rich solar's which are $80 each right now)
I arranged them into 4s3p so I get 60-70v (70 on really cold days) and it kept amps well under 20. This was partly to utilize the 10awg factory solar wiring.
Double check your layout plan for dimensions and don't forget to consider weight differences. I've been considering adding some 330ish panels and they all seem to weigh as much or a little more than three of my 100s.

Panels were the hardest thing for me to source. Free shipping was important because when I had to pay for shipping it was stupid expensive.

I was ready to plop down money for panels from a distributor on the western slope (western side of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado, for you folks not from around here). $240 per 320 watt panel. I was going to drive to get them. Then the distributor sent a quote with a high charge for shipping of components that he hadn't mentioned. I asked about it and he got nasty. Adios amigo! I managed to track down his distributor, which ended up being local to me. $185 for the same 320 watt panel! Just in case that was a mistake, I was at their dock within an hour to pick up a pallet of four panels. That savings really helped my budget.
 
For Break away, I added a $20
Agreed on the Victron Multiplus. I'll be replacing my small inverter with a Multiplus eventually. Either a 12/2000 or a 12/3000, but likely the former as I simply don't need 3000 watts of AC power.
If you look at the price difference, it's probably silly to get the 2000. These inverters produce output on demand, not full draw all the time.
 
Hmmm...

Been snooping the forums as always and found a solution? What about these all in one growatt setups? Seems to be the same as a victron easy solar. But 1/3 the cost.
 
Hmmm...

Been snooping the forums as always and found a solution? What about these all in one growatt setups? Seems to be the same as a victron easy solar. But 1/3 the cost.
Growatt is to Xiaomi as Victron is to Apple.
Not a perfect analogy but you get the point.

Maybe its more like Minsk tractor works vs New Holland. ;)
 
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Growatt is to Xiaomi as Victron is to Apple.
Not a perfect analogy but you get the point.

Maybe its more like Minsk tractor works vs New Holland. ;)

Bahaha... ?

Do you have any first hand experience with them? Or does anyone else have experience?

I suppose the question is do they work well for the entended job?

In a way isn't it much the same buying LiFePo4 cells and a bms from China vs buying a battle born?
 
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