Ah yea, exact. But still no mention of if it's isolated or not, min/max voltages, and if/how can you use it in an inverted configuration if needed. There isn't a pinout or even a picture; "left", "middle" and "right" aren't a correct way to designate a connector's pins as it depends on the orientation you have relative to the device...
Using Chargery BMS without disconnect relay
- Thread starter Solarfun4jim
- Start date
A picture on the previous page identifying terminal H in a given unit orientation, a knowledge of the difference between left and right, and the understanding of connecting pins allows one to utilize the remote switch for inverter on, inverter off and charger only functions via relays.
It's those that have a greater knowledge of options, circuit design, etc., that are frustrated because they want to do something different than the manual instructs.
You're not the unwashed masses.
IMHO, it provides 100% accurate instructions for the typical end user that knows little more than V=I*R and P=I*V.
It's those that have a greater knowledge of options, circuit design, etc., that are frustrated because they want to do something different than the manual instructs.
You're not the unwashed masses.IMHO, it provides 100% accurate instructions for the typical end user that knows little more than V=I*R and P=I*V.
Euhm sorry but an empty square isn't really an accurate way to represent a connector to me.
All I ask for is to have pin numbers and description of each pin function. <-- Edit: oh btw, they do exactly that for every single other connector (excepted the RJ45 one which is understandable as it's for a proprietary com anyway) so why not this one?
And when a pin is labelled "H" (and probably another one labelled "L") you can be pretty sure you can use the input with a bit more than just a dry contact, else individual pins wouldn't be labelled and you would just have a "remote contact" label for the whole connector.
It's those that have a greater knowledge of options, circuit design, etc., that are frustrated because they want to do something different than the manual instructs.
IMHO, it provides 100% accurate instructions for the typical end user that knows little more than V=I*R and P=I*V.
I don't want to do something different than the manual instruct. I just want some spec on this rather obscur input so I can advise @Solarfun4jim properly.
Also, knowing if the input is isolated is very important, even for a less technical end user.
And how comes the manual of a cheap BMS is properly doing that (we know the ouput is: not isolated, common ground, 12 V, 2.5 A max, and it's polarity on the drawing showing individual pins; in other words we know everything we need to use the ouput properly) while Victron one isn't (short the left and middle pins of this square thing to turn on the inverter)?
//
@Solarfun4jim if you can take a photo of the connector and its surroundings I can try to reverse-engineer the circuit to have a more definitive answer if you want
Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Instructions are perfectly acceptable to someone who can't reverse-engineer a circuit.
Thanks biduleohm. A definitive answer whether i can :Euhm sorry but an empty square isn't really an accurate way to represent a connector to me.
All I ask for is to have pin numbers and description of each pin function. <-- Edit: oh btw, they do exactly that for every single other connector (excepted the RJ45 one which is understandable as it's for a proprietary com anyway) so why not this one?
And when a pin is labelled "H" (and probably another one labelled "L") you can be pretty sure you can use the input with a bit more than just a dry contact, else individual pins wouldn't be labelled and you would just have a "remote contact" label for the whole connector.
I don't want to do something different than the manual instruct. I just want some spec on this rather obscur input so I can advise @Solarfun4jim properly.
Also, knowing if the input is isolated is very important, even for a less technical end user.
And how comes the manual of a cheap BMS is properly doing that (we know the ouput is: not isolated, common ground, 12 V, 2.5 A max, and it's polarity on the drawing showing individual pins; in other words we know everything we need to use the ouput properly) while Victron one isn't (short the left and middle pins of this square thing to turn on the inverter)?
//
@Solarfun4jim if you can take a photo of the connector and its surroundings I can try to reverse-engineer the circuit to have a more definitive answer if you want
1. simply connect the positive output only(ignoring the ground)
2. connect through a remote on-off cable
or 3. need to use relays to break the connection or some such solution.
I had mentioned on a previous thread some months ago, when i first started looking into this, and Justin Laureltec had stated it would be possible to disconnect a switch, but that was on an 'All in one' unit, so not sure if it is the same with the multiplus.
Anyways...a picture paints a thousand words....
Ah, the traces only are on the other side of the board (or even on internal layers if it's 4 or more layers PCB which I highly doubt) so unless you can easily take a photo of the other side (i.e. don't have to disassemble the whole thing) it'll be impossible to reverse-engineer it.
For now don't connect anything who isn't an isolated contact on this connector, else you may fry things.
For now don't connect anything who isn't an isolated contact on this connector, else you may fry things.
Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
Snoobler mate, after my parallel top balance, my cells have rested for 36 hours. the resting voltages of the cells(unconnected to anything at present) are as followsSometimes ignorance is bliss. Instructions are perfectly acceptable to someone who can't reverse-engineer a circuit.
1. 3.56
2. 3.57
3. 3.58
4. 3.58
5. 3.57
6. 3.57
7. 3.57
8. 3.58
Having charged up to 3.64v from every cell starting at 3.32v, do these differences look 'normal' or does the difference of one cell at 3.56v and others at 3.58v reflect a poor balance?
These are going to be 8s connected for 24v. Any benefit from arranging the cells in a different order? I'm assuming that these slight differences indicate a slight difference in individual cell resistances/capacities, but i presume they are negligable and can be ignored. Do you agree?
Great to tap into your experience.
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Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
This is where my ignorance trips me up. Are the SSR's considered 'isolated' since it is just a 'opto coupling'?
Yes, you're probably better using a small SSR to be safe
Just be sure it's a bidirectional one as we don't know the polarity on the connector. Or if you only have unidirectional SSRs you can use a DMM to check the polarity (remove the jumper wire first of course) and wire the SSR to it accordingly.
FYI the name comes from the fact it uses light (opto) to control the output, thus having total galvanic isolation
Just be sure it's a bidirectional one as we don't know the polarity on the connector. Or if you only have unidirectional SSRs you can use a DMM to check the polarity (remove the jumper wire first of course) and wire the SSR to it accordingly.
FYI the name comes from the fact it uses light (opto) to control the output, thus having total galvanic isolation
Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
Biduleohm...i know i have taken up a lot of your time and its appreciated. As regards the SSR, would a 5v-60v dc one cut it? I was struggling to find ones that went as low as 3.3VYes, you're probably better using a small SSR to be safe
Just be sure it's a bidirectional one as we don't know the polarity on the connector. Or if you only have unidirectional SSRs you can use a DMM to check the polarity (remove the jumper wire first of course) and wire the SSR to it accordingly.
FYI the name comes from the fact it uses light (opto) to control the output, thus having total galvanic isolation
Thanks
Snoobler mate, after my parallel top balance, my cells have rested for 36 hours. the resting voltages of the cells(unconnected to anything at present) are as follows
1. 3.56
2. 3.57
3. 3.58
4. 3.58
5. 3.57
6. 3.57
7. 3.57
8. 3.58
Having charged up to 3.64v from every cell starting at 3.32v, do these differences look 'normal' or does the difference of one cell at 3.56v and others at 3.58v reflect a poor balance?
These are going to be 8s connected for 24v. Any benefit from arranging the cells in a different order? I'm assuming that these slight differences indicate a slight difference in individual cell resistances/capacities, but i presume they are negligable and can be ignored. Do you agree?
Great to tap into your experience.
I don't even notice anything under .05. You're at .02. Win.
Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
No, i believe the voltage is 3.3v through the load side. section 3.5 Remote on-offYes, as the voltage you quote is the control side voltage, so anything who can accept 12 V will be fine as it's what the BMS outputs
Think i found one, but pretty expensive. :-(
I just need to query if it is bi directional, like you suggested.
(Operating voltage min of only 1VDC)
(Control side 4vdc - 32vdc)
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Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
Cheers mate
Again, you're talking about the voltage needed to turn the relay ON on the control side, it'll typically be something around 3-5 V min. But that's not a problem because we have 12V.
On the other side (the "contact" side) any DC (or DC/AC) SSR will go down to 0 as they use mosfets (AC SSR are a bit more complex but you can't use one here anyway so not a problem), you don't have to worry about a minimum voltage.
If you're able to solder standard DIP packages then I can recommend you something like that with this resistor for example which will be far cheaper than any bigger SSR you can find online
If you want something turn-key then get something like that, no need for a big expensive SSR (even this one is actually far bigger than needed but it's the cheapest one I could find on amazon). It's a unidirectional one but after thinking a bit more about it you don't really need a bidirectional one: if the inverter doesn't turn on or off just reverse the two wires on the input and the SSR will be in the correct direction
Solarfun4jim
Solar seduced :-)
BiduleOhm, a very big thank you for going out of your way to source that info for me. It is guys like yourself that makes this forum great.Again, you're talking about the voltage needed to turn the relay ON on the control side, it'll typically be something around 3-5 V min. But that's not a problem because we have 12V.
On the other side (the "contact" side) any DC (or DC/AC) SSR will go down to 0 as they use mosfets (AC SSR are a bit more complex but you can't use one here anyway so not a problem), you don't have to worry about a minimum voltage.
If you're able to solder standard DIP packages then I can recommend you something like that with this resistor for example which will be far cheaper than any bigger SSR you can find online
If you want something turn-key then get something like that, no need for a big expensive SSR (even this one is actually far bigger than needed but it's the cheapest one I could find on amazon). It's a unidirectional one but after thinking a bit more about it you don't really need a bidirectional one: if the inverter doesn't turn on or off just reverse the two wires on the input and the SSR will be in the correct direction
Kudos to you.
