Victron 330 amp vs Epoch 460 amp

[Ariel188]

Would you get 4 Victron 330 amp, or 3 Epoch 460 amp for a 12 volt van build and why?

Someone is trying to talk me into victron batteries saying they are the best to use with victron components. And that other batteries have more issues with the victron system........ They also said the wakespeed and nations 280 alternator were designed to work with Victron batteries and components, and that I'll have far less issues if I use Victron batteries vs the Epoch I already ordered.......

Victron has external BMS and Epoch internal, is this significant?

Victron:
Max Continuous Discharge: 400A
Max Charge Current: 400A

Epoch:
Max Continuous Discharge: 300A
Max Charge Current: 230A

Does this mean the victron batteries will charge faster on the second alternator?

Thought, opinions, on one over the other, and why please? Will has not talked about Victron Batteries on his youtube for a long time that I could find...... Thank you so much!

 

[HighTechLab]

My company distributes both batteries and we have quite a bit of experience with customers on both sides of the spectrum.

I would say if you are powering DC loads directly, then go with the epoch's. If you are ONLY running an inverter/charger or devices that communicate, then go with the Victron batteries. Needing to add something like a Smart BatteryProtect on the Victron batteries is their biggest disadvantage and they are a bit harder to wire up and setup.

Both options can easily charge at 800+ amps, I doubt you have more than that on a van.

Keep in mind that the 4x Victron batteries will have 520AH less than the Epoch's - 460*4 = 1840Ah vs 330*4= 1350Ah

There is a lot less to go wrong on the Victron batteries - internally they are only a balancing PCB and cells - there is no MOSFET BMS inside that can fail due to high current surges. You then daisy-chain the communications and use a VE.Bus or Lynx BMS to send the statuses to the rest of the system.

With the Epoch batteries, communication is not required for control as much, because the FET BMS can interrupt charging/discharging. The Victron batteries absolutely MUST have communication setting every aspect of charging. So, communication on the epoch becomes mostly only useful for SOC% readouts more than anything...

Obviously I am not sure exactly what your loads look like since you didn't mention, but I would venture to guess that you would probably only need 3 epochs vs 4x Victron 330's. Do an energy audit, see what your loads require and how much capacity is actually needed before you spend any money.

 

[Ariel188]

I would say if you are powering DC loads directly, then go with the epoch's. If you are ONLY running an inverter/charger or devices that communicate, then go with the Victron batteries. Needing to add something like a Smart BatteryProtect on the Victron batteries is their biggest disadvantage and they are a bit harder to wire up and setup.

Opps was a type o. It should have read 4 victron or 3 epoch. I dont understand what I replied to above. But I think the answer is BOTH?? I wil be running most stuff on 12 volt but lots of power 110 when I need it, like cooking stuff and computer.

Here is my stuff for inside the van.

Batteries TBD
Solar Panels: (photos attached of each)
3 at 170
2 at 100
https://orionvangear.com/collection...ble-marine-solar-panel?variant=44608784007394

Second alternator nations 280 with wakespeed
EV https://www.tucsonev.com/#j1772-adap-remote
https://www.tucsonev.com/#J1772-tes

SEEKR Sirocco II™ Fan from by Caframo. 12V
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LDY4TE4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Doumigo Induction Cooktop, 2 Burner White Electric Cooktop 120V
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJRFLTWC?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

Breville Smart Oven Air Fryer Pro, Brushed Stainless Steel, BOV900BSS
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N5UPTZS?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Intellipure Air Filter (on its own little inverter so it can run all the time on 110?)
https://www.intellipure.com/product/intellipure-compact/

Gaming Laptop (don't have it yet, but will take a lot of power)


I use mac book pro 2013 laptop now (charging all the time) 110 now but I think there is a way to charge it on 12 volt?

Costway Washering Giantex 1.34 cubic feet
https://www.giantex.com/products/washer-dryer-combo-laundry-baby-washing-machine

Cruise N Comfort 12 volt AC *

Rixen Heater, with heated floors * (will have 3 vents)

* = (I am pretty pick with temperatures, so will probably use a lot of power to stay between 67 to 73 degrees as much as possible.)

MaxxFan 7000K (With Remote)

Instapot pressure cooker

Vitamix blender

Food Processor

Hair dryer

Laveo dry flush toilet (needs to be charged every few months for a few hours on 110, or can hook up to 12 volt all the time. I have both options)


Clearsource water filter for incoming water before the tanks then this water filter on the sink UV filter ArrowMAX 2.0 UV-LED Water Treatment System - Bushed Nickel Smart Faucet 12 volt AC DC
https://nomadicsupply.com/acuva-arrowmax-2-0-12v-ac-dc-uv-water-purifier/

Deluxe Artic Tern Roof Hatch, I think it's 12 volt??
https://ternoverland.com/arctic-tern-roof-hatch-ElectricDeluxe/


Star link from Waypoint converted to 12 volt
https://shop.waypointvehicles.com/p...olt-starlink-conversion-flat-panel-all-in-one

Isotherm Cruise 195 L Refrigerator 12 volt
https://www.westmarine.com/isotherm...-4-sided-stainless-steel-flange-14995401.html

Vantrue Nexus 5 dash cam with 4 cameras hooks into car battery or system?
https://www.vantrue.com/products/nexus-5

Thunderbolt M2 hooks into car battery and/or system (prob want 1 door to van battery and the other 3 locks on system batteries)
https://www.thunderboltlocks.com/shop

Was hoping to find a 12 volt weather station to mount on roof

Happi Jac bed lift, not sure what power it takes
https://www.happijac.com/


Simple safe (camera, carbon monoxide detector, motion sensor, glass break sensor, smoke detector etc takes power, not sure which.
https://simplisafe.com/build-my-system

CarLock system take some kind of power.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U0K3Q10/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?smid=A3EFDFCHU15BZB&psc=1

Shower and sink so a 12 volt water pump not sure if more than one?

12 volt puck lights

12 volt rope lights around ceiling, cabinets, and toekicks. Lights will be on different stations with dimmers.

1 or 2 reading lights 12 volt
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BWY9DZG5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?smid=A7L8HK9IU6EU8&psc=1

Nebula portable movie projector "Capsule"

Maybe some kind of music box thing with speakers.

I would like USB C ports scattered around.

Maybe would like digital photo frame.

Maybe would like camera dry storage case, but it runs on 110 all the time so would need a little dedicated inverter for it to like the air filter?

Many 110 outlets, probably 14 outlets!!!! I am thinking as follows:
I am thinking all the kitchen stuff needs its own outlet?
Passenger side: Big fridge, induction cooktop, oven, and then another separate two more for more heavy load appliances, (vitamix, food processor instapot, etc.) So that is 5 so far, then one more outlet under bed as there will be counters/cabinets under bed for more counter space, then another outlet near front cabin, and another outlet near back door for heater. (So that is 8 for this side)
Driver side: outlet near cabin, outlet under sink for filter and water pump, outlet for washing machine, outlet for counter, outlet by back door for AC, outlet under bed. (And 6 more for driver side.)

 

[JeromeS13]

Epoch, hands down. In fact, I have two Epoch 300AH that I bought with the 20% Black Friday discount. Victron and Battleborn batteries are way overpriced.

 

[Ariel188]

Epoch, hands down. In fact, I have two Epoch 300AH that I bought with the 20% Black Friday discount. Victron and Battleborn batteries are way overpriced.

Can you please tell me more why? Like the technical aspect? I am not concerned with price. I want an easier to use less likely to break system. Now is it true that would be Victron batteries with Victron components then?

 

[JeromeS13]

If price is no concern, do what you want. But for us peasants, price is always a concern.

 

[JeromeS13]

Price, positive reviews, and the most compact footprint possible were my reasons for going with the Epoch. I'm in a 144 Sprinter with limited space.

 

[Ariel188]

If price is no concern, do what you want. But for us peasants, price is always a concern.

LOL not that it is of "NO" concern, but for me, my system not breaking and being as efficent as can be are my biggest concerns over price (TBH both batteries are very close in price anyways.) Especially the way my system is breaking in my current 5th wheel, I do not want to suffer that fate again in my van, so I'll do what it takes! Ill be in a Sprinter 170 ext, but I posted my list of stuff inside, so space is still a concern even in this big van.

 

[HighTechLab]

If you're powering DC loads go with the epochs. With the Victron batteries, in order to protect the batteries from over-discharge, you will need to run all your loads through a Smart BatteryProtect. In my opinion the BMS is the Epoch's is more robust than the batteryprotect. This is why I said if you are only powering the inverter, then you would be fine on the Victron, because the current isn't routed through such a device and why I would choose the Epoch's if you had many DC loads. @sunshine_eggo your opinion?

If price is no concern, do what you want. But for us peasants, price is always a concern.

The price is not outrageously different...don't freak out just because it's blue.

$1999 for 460ah Epoch = $4.34/ah
$1654 for 330ah Victron = $5.01/ah

We're talking a 13% difference...I wouldn't call that the difference between peasant and professional.

Victron batteries use CALB cells. CALB has been in business for a LONG time and is one of the original innovators of LiFePO4, typically preforms 10% over rated capacity and lasts forever. The epochs are good too. I'd say they are playing in the same ballpark.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I truly know next to nothing about Victron batteries. I'm struggling to wrap my head around the $/kWh values being thrown around in this thread...

 

[Ariel188]

If you're powering DC loads go with the epochs. With the Victron batteries, in order to protect the batteries from over-discharge, you will need to run all your loads through a Smart BatteryProtect. In my opinion the BMS is the Epoch's is more robust than the batteryprotect. This is why I said if you are only powering the inverter, then you would be fine on the Victron, because the current isn't routed through such a device and why I would choose the Epoch's if you had many DC loads. @sunshine_eggo your opinion?

I listed all the stuff in my van above in the second reply. It is both DC and inverter (110 loads) and the inverter may be on all the time, or a lot of the time if I want to run my air purifier, security system, and dry camera case 24/7. The Air Conditioner (crusie n comfort) will be 12 volt as well as the fridge, lights, water pump, heater I think (rixin. all 12 volt DC I guess.) I will have heavy inverter loads as well like an induction cooktop, breville oven, and power appliances like vitamix, food processor, and instapot all 110 through an inverter. What is you opinion based on that HighTechLab? Thank you so much! You really seem to know what you are talking about.

 

[G8trwood]

Great conversation. The form factor of the Victron is quite nice. I could fit two 200ah or the 330 in a small travel trailer space. But then add ons bms etc taking up room and wiring. I am trying to minimize inverter usage, so Epoch over Victron?

 

[Ariel188]

UMMMM I was just told "If you want a second alternator with Wakespeed then you will not be able to use Epoch. They do not have the safety protocol built into their logic and are not on the Wakespeed approved list. "

 

[HighTechLab]

Ditch the wakespeed and go with the Arco Zeus. They are better in every way possible - few other discussions on this forum about them.

 

[Ariel188]

Ditch the wakespeed and go with the Arco Zeus. They are better in every way possible - few other discussions on this forum about them.

Reading now, so far looks like they are similar.

 

[Brucey]

Great conversation. The form factor of the Victron is quite nice. I could fit two 200ah or the 330 in a small travel trailer space. But then add ons bms etc taking up room and wiring. I am trying to minimize inverter usage, so Epoch over Victron?

Just watch out I think the 330Ah one can only be used in the upright orientation versus the 200Ah which can go on its sides.

 

[Ariel188]

Just watch out I think the 330Ah one can only be used in the upright orientation versus the 200Ah which can go on its sides.

You are correct, the 330 have to remain upright. Is this bad in a van with the moving and shaking and parking on hills? Or if it is ok for installtion then its all good?

 

[Brucey]

You are correct, the 330 have to remain upright. Is this bad in a van with the moving and shaking and parking on hills? Or if it is ok for installtion then its all good?

These are primarily used in boats and RVs so that will be fine.

 

[G8trwood]

Just watch out I think the 330Ah one can only be used in the upright orientation versus the 200Ah which can go on its sides.

Thanks.
After the comments about mainly DC loads leaning towards Epoch, trying to get confirmation on when their 300’s will be back in stock, or just go with a SOK 280.

 

[Ariel188]

Thanks.
After the comments about mainly DC loads leaning towards Epoch, trying to get confirmation on when their 300’s will be back in stock, or just go with a SOK 280.

If you are using a wakespeed I guess it changes everything just be sure if you are to take that into account.