Victron Lithium "Smart" Battery (BMS Sold Separately)

[curiouscarbon]

in 27 years your battery will already be dead due to the calendar aging that Will is talking about, meanwhile if you have only been using the battery to 80% of less of it's ability, when put side-by-side with a battery used to 100% of it's ability, the person who used 100% ends up getting more bang for their buck because in both cases the batteries are dead due to age, not due to cycles.

temperature assumption?

25C?

what is the optimal temperature of LiFePO4 cell material to reduce calendar aging?

thanks

 

[curiouscarbon]

the chemistry of the cell changes above about 0.5C

may i ask for additional reading material on this topic please?

 

[toms]

My info doesn’t come from books. If you google the different phase reactions in a lithium ion battery you will find what you are looking for - too much work for me.

 

[curiouscarbon]

thank you for your time

 

[curiouscarbon]

If it lasts three times as long, it is good value. I’ve seen early BYD B-Box units fail, warranty after 5 years isn’t worth chasing as its a pro-rata scheme. Pylontech use cheap cells and can’t handle hot conditions. Early Simpliphi have comms issues and i’ve seen several early failures.
I’m not sure what cells Victron use now, but their Winston based batteries have proven to be solid - has anyone seen one fail?

I know Will Prowse has said many times he isn’t interested in making a battery last a long time, but my experience with setting up power systems - the longer lasting the better.

The only reason i assemble my own batteries is because there are no commercial offerings that offer suitable longevity. (and hence lower cost/kwh)

i too optimize for long system operational life. other people are free to optimize for short life low cost. my interest is in DIY to last 10 years, at least.

planned obsolescence mindset is good for profit and bad for inspiring skilled engineers ??

the entire reason i even started taking DIY solar seriously was due to LiFePO4 and LTO cycle life longevity. some chemistry 500 cycles? why would i even want to build something so fragile??

all due respect to all builders and learners.

shooting for 20 year operational life is good and logical in my opinion. in 20 years i see myself still wanting electrical power. if the cells need replacing at year 15, i prefer that the other parts be all ready for the new set. why set myself up for failure intentionally?

when a specific doctor says they do not know a cure, it does not necessarily mean there is no cure

i hope everyone enjoys building and using their solar stuff!

also, happy new year

 

[curiouscarbon]

on topic, i would not buy the blue box

need teardown to prove merit of MSRP

otherwise my fortune/frey 100Ah cell and CATL 302Ah cell with JBD BMS are more than adequate for my purposes, and cost less to assemble

 

[l00semarble]

Disclosure: I am a Victron marine dealer.

I am not saying that I think Victron is necessarily competitive in batteries as I do not feel it is a core competency of the company but one thing I do know is that Victron has a strict MRP pricing policy so that Amazon price is essentially a "full list price."

Like Bose or Apple or Garmin Victron chooses to position itself as a premium brand and does not allow resellers to just "race to the bottom" on price because then you get hawkers slinging product with no pre-sale or post-sale help/support.

Victron products can't be advertised below these prices but if you request a quote from a Victron dealer you may find that the price can be significantly lower especially if you were trying to get units in volume to make 30kwh for example.

The other thing you may notice is that these batteries actually exist on a shelf inside the USA (Actually I have several on a shelf 15ft from me right now) and a routine order from the Victron USA warehouse can be a just a few days to have them in hand.

Again....I'm not a Victron battery fanboy. We use them in boats/yachts and they work. The external BMS setup is actually great when doing a multiple battery bank for a Victron ecosystem.

We have also used Battleborn, Relion, Mastervolt, Dakota and others depending on customer preference but we don't offer to custom build batteries out of loose cells for a customer boat/yacht.

 

[JeremyB]

There are many considerations in specifying a battery system for an offshore sailing boat beyond cost. I could certainly have saved money by doing a DIY build from cells, but for me it came down to a choice between Lithionics, Mastervolt and Victron. I went with Victron (3 x 200Ah @12V). Most, if not all, other integrated batteries beyond these three (the term drop-in is a misnomer, at least on a boat) do not allow for separate load and charge bus disconnect, which in my view is essential.

The internal BMS in the Victron batteries monitors the batteries and does cell balancing. It then signals an external BMS to take care of load or charge bus disconnect, and load disconnect comes after an advance warning.

I believe that Victron's batteries are the result of a collaboration with MG Energy Systems, though the cells themselves no doubt come from China.

I agree with 100semarble that having these batteries readily available (in the US from the warehouse in Maine) with an extensive dealer network is a big plus.

 

[Oldwave]

One major advantage to the Victron Batteries is the continuous output double or triple the internal bms SOK’s( full disclosure I own two of the SOKs). Also the reporting function is superior. Do I wish they are cheaper, sure. Given what I know and my current all Victron install, I would have bought one 330 ah victron for 1000 more than the two SOKs. 600 amp hour continuous output, you need 6 SOK’s to get that. Sometimes price is not the ultimate decision factor. My install is in an RV. The price point is near BattleBorns .

 

[Grimmster]

10000 cycles, once daily is only 27 years. If you think you (or someone you care about) won’t have a use for your battery in 27 years then fine.

"Only" 27 years, lol.

If I'm cycling 100% daily for almost 10,000 days then I'm ok if capacity has degraded to 80% or even lower.

 

[houseofancients]

I recently bought two Pylontech UP2500s. 110Ah each - at 24V. 1100€ each.
From a local hardware store, no shipping. They look good.
View attachment 76601

Each has its own BMS. They have CAN, serial and console ports. Little LEDs that tell me approximate SOC.
OK, they're Chinese. Victron is - supposedly - Dutch. At double the price, they can speak Double Dutch for all I care ;·)
.

the design and sales are indeed dutch.
the do have a factory here, but most the stuff is now made in vietnam and india