Victron solar data

[Sportzfann]

I have some questions about reading the data from my smart solar device, 150/45 maybe someone can chime in.
the watts produced I understand (76 ) from array.
the current shown is 1.2 A @63 V from solar panels. (Slightly cloudy day. 4-325w on roof 12V system 400ah Li time bank.)
battery section 13.11V. 5.6A batt temp 66deg. Bulk charge mode.

is the batt volts 13.11 the voltage applied from solar or the actual battery volts ?

same for the current is the 5.6A the amount being used or charging amount from solar?

Thanks for the help just trying to understand correctly ?. Thanks Sportz

 

[Adam De Lay]

is the batt volts 13.11 the voltage applied from solar or the actual battery volts ?

same for the current is the 5.6A the amount being used or charging amount from solar?

The battery voltage and current are coming from the battery. The voltage is the 13.11V while being charged with 5.6A.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have some questions about reading the data from my smart solar device, 150/45 maybe someone can chime in.
the watts produced I understand (76 ) from array.
the current shown is 1.2 A @63 V from solar panels. (Slightly cloudy day. 4-325w on roof 12V system 400ah Li time bank.)
battery section 13.11V. 5.6A batt temp 66deg. Bulk charge mode.

is the batt volts 13.11 the voltage applied from solar or the actual battery volts ?

The MPPT reports 1) its measured voltage (influenced by its charge current, or 2) the voltage being shared by a VE.Smart source (SBS or shunt) or GX connected source.

same for the current is the 5.6A the amount being used or charging amount from solar?

Same answer - either it's own output, or a shunt value from a shared source.

 

[Rocketman]

I really like the second page of the graphs - the History section- the bar chart over the last 30 days.

I usually look over the last 3 to 5 days.
I look at the min and max battery voltage.

Is the max consistently reaching the absorption voltage? So the battery consistently is getting full.
Or is the min voltage keep going down and down.

The lifetime total is kinda cool - let’s me know my main array (on my MotorHome) has produced 1807kwh - 1.8 megawatts! WOW - kinda cool!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I really like the second page of the graphs - the History section- the bar chart over the last 30 days.

I usually look over the last 3 to 5 days.
I look at the min and max battery voltage.

Is the max consistently reaching the absorption voltage? So the battery consistently is getting full.
Or is the min voltage keep going down and down.

The lifetime total is kinda cool - let’s me know my main array (on my MotorHome) has produced 1807kwh - 1.8 megawatts! WOW - kinda cool!

Kinda forgot about that number... inspired me to check..

8.7MWh since 11/2020.

Our typical "idle" usage is about 7-8kWh/day, so that checks out pretty close even though it's varied over the years... higher when we're there, lower when we're not.. higher with an absorption fridge, lower with compressor, lower with DSL, higher with Starlink...

 

[Sportzfann]

I really like the second page of the graphs - the History section- the bar chart over the last 30 days.

I usually look over the last 3 to 5 days.
I look at the min and max battery voltage.

Is the max consistently reaching the absorption voltage? So the battery consistently is getting full.
Or is the min voltage keep going down and down.

The lifetime total is kinda cool - let’s me know my main array (on my MotorHome) has produced 1807kwh - 1.8 megawatts! WOW - kinda cool!

This is the last couple days readings, semi sunny, some high clouds, I expect summer sun will be higher wattages? The panels are flat on the rv roof I am in Quartzite AZ. at this time.
4x 325 W I was expecting a bit more output from the solar, still learning about this. Thanks Sportz

 

[sunshine_eggo]

This is the last couple days readings, semi sunny, some high clouds, I expect summer sun will be higher wattages? The panels are flat on the rv roof I am in Quartzite AZ. at this time.
4x 325 W I was expecting a bit more output from the solar, still learning about this. Thanks Sportz

Wintertime flat on roof = about 50% rated IF you have absolutely no partial shading or obstructions. Roof protrusions causing shading can have a potentially devastating impact on solar.

Summer may be higher, but with more sun comes higher solar cell temperatures. Hotter panels produce less. Assuming shading isn't a factor, at noon, you'll probably see about 70-80% rated. You will likely find that mid spring and mid fall are your best production periods due to the cooler temps and equatorial position of the sun.

Link #1 in my sig for PVWatts yields these results at Quartzite for 1.3kW at 0° tilt (flat on a roof):



As you can see, Dec/Jan is only a little more than 1/3 your peak harvest in June.

Assuming full sun and no shading (full unshaded exposure from sunrise to sunset), you should get an average of 3.36h * 1.3kW = 4.4kWh/day.

You got less because your battery is full. Also worth noting that your battery BMS is entering charge protection mode an causing voltage spikes:



If you do not have LFP batteries, something else is wrong. If you do, I recommend you lower absorption voltage to 13.8V with a fixed absorption period of 2 hours to reduce the frequency and magnitude of the voltage spikes.

Also looks like you are really tapping your battery out

 

[Rocketman]

Just to summarize your first post here:
400ah Lithium Battery
4- 325w panels = 1300w (probably wired 2s2p)
Victron 150/45

FYI- You are very over paneled. The 150/45 can only deliver 650w of power (per the data sheet). 45 amps *13.8v = 621watts. So with your setup “Today” is probably all the power you will get - you got 5.93 hrs of sun. In the summer you might get a little more - just because the day is longer- but not much more…

Your bottleneck is your 150/45 solar charge controller. If you want more power on any of the days that your PMax is over 620w you need to either go with a bigger SCC or split your array and add another 150/45.

150/100 - 1450w
150/85 - 1200w
150/70 - 1000w

Qty2 150/45 = 650 *2 = 1300w

With flat panels it is good to be a little overpanelled. I would either add the second 150/45 or go to the 150/70 or 150/85. You will likely see very little time above 1000w - but the cheapest course might be the second 150/45 + wires vs selling the 150/45 and buying a 150/70.(you will have to change the wires from the mppt to the battery/bus bar - if you go with the 150/70+)

Also, were you running something big like a microwave off the inverter? The low voltage has me puzzled… your batteries are getting full (maybe a little too high of voltage)… so you were not using all the capacity of the 400ah battery (only about half if I did my math correctly). But if that Microwave/coffee pot was in the morning- before much sun and your batteries were fairly low, the high amps could have driven the voltage that low - or maybe overloading the inverter? This is another area you may need to explore. 12.0v on lithium is just about empty.

I also think your absorption voltage is too high. I have mine set to 14.2v & 1 hr max.

Here is the data sheets for those mppt’s.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-150-70-up-to-150-100-VE.Can-EN.pdf

 

[GXMnow]

This is the last couple days readings, semi sunny, some high clouds, I expect summer sun will be higher wattages? The panels are flat on the rv roof I am in Quartzite AZ. at this time.
4x 325 W I was expecting a bit more output from the solar, still learning about this. Thanks Sportz

I agree this looks like a problem.

The battery ran down to 11.52 volts, and then charged up to 16.42 volts? Assuming a 4cell LFP at 400 amp hours, it's not adding up right. 2.67 KWHs is only 55% of the battery capacity. 11.52 volts should be well under 10% SoC. And 16.42 is way too high, so most likely the BMS disconnected. Full charge should only be about 14.6 volts during absorption. Then float should let it settle back to 13.8 volts. Another option is you may have a bad connection that is causing a voltage drop between the battery and the charge controller. But the charge controller settings are also likely wrong for the battery.

If all the connections are good, and the data is right, you may need to add a second 400 amp hour battery. And set the right parameters in the charge controller.

 

[Sportzfann]

Wintertime flat on roof = about 50% rated IF you have absolutely no partial shading or obstructions. Roof protrusions causing shading can have a potentially devastating impact on solar.

Summer may be higher, but with more sun comes higher solar cell temperatures. Hotter panels produce less. Assuming shading isn't a factor, at noon, you'll probably see about 70-80% rated. You will likely find that mid spring and mid fall are your best production periods due to the cooler temps and equatorial position of the sun.

Link #1 in my sig for PVWatts yields these results at Quartzite for 1.3kW at 0° tilt (flat on a roof):

View attachment 191214

As you can see, Dec/Jan is only a little more than 1/3 your peak harvest in June.

Assuming full sun and no shading (full unshaded exposure from sunrise to sunset), you should get an average of 3.36h * 1.3kW = 4.4kWh/day.

You got less because your battery is full. Also worth noting that your battery BMS is entering charge protection mode an causing voltage spikes:

View attachment 191215

If you do not have LFP batteries, something else is wrong. If you do, I recommend you lower absorption voltage to 13.8V with a fixed absorption period of 2 hours to reduce the frequency and magnitude of the voltage spikes.

Also looks like you are really tapping your battery out

I do have Li time lifpo batts (200A plus model) x2 Just to be clear the these

Wintertime flat on roof = about 50% rated IF you have absolutely no partial shading or obstructions. Roof protrusions causing shading can have a potentially devastating impact on solar.

Summer may be higher, but with more sun comes higher solar cell temperatures. Hotter panels produce less. Assuming shading isn't a factor, at noon, you'll probably see about 70-80% rated. You will likely find that mid spring and mid fall are your best production periods due to the cooler temps and equatorial position of the sun.

Link #1 in my sig for PVWatts yields these results at Quartzite for 1.3kW at 0° tilt (flat on a roof):

View attachment 191214

As you can see, Dec/Jan is only a little more than 1/3 your peak harvest in June.

Assuming full sun and no shading (full unshaded exposure from sunrise to sunset), you should get an average of 3.36h * 1.3kW = 4.4kWh/day.

You got less because your battery is full. Also worth noting that your battery BMS is entering charge protection mode an causing voltage spikes:

View attachment 191215

If you do not have LFP batteries, something else is wrong. If you do, I recommend you lower absorption voltage to 13.8V with a fixed absorption period of 2 hours to reduce the frequency and magnitude of the voltage spikes.

Also looks like you are really tapping your battery out

I do have 2- Lifpo 200ah plus Litime batteries, the drop in volts might have been the microwave use we are boon docking. I run the genny for a couple hours to top off the battery. To be clear to lower the absorption volts to 13.8 and the time period of 2 hrs is inside the Charge controller Right? not the inverter?
I think I can change those settings in the victron phone app. I don’t recall changing any settings in the charge controller.
will these settings damage the batteries ?
Thanks for the help.

 

[GXMnow]

The default setting in the Victron charge controller is probably for flooded lead acid and that WILL damage your batteries, the BMS is saving them by disconnecting. For LFP cells, your absorb voltage should be about 14.4 volts or so, and then the float voltage should be 13.8 volts.

But if the cells are not well balanced, you may not be able to get the absorb voltage that high. Do the Li Time batteries have a monitor app? As they reach near full charge, it is common for one cell to start climbing faster. Set the absorb volts where that starts to happen to give the BMS time to balance the cells. And you may be able to creep it higher as they balance better. But to be honest, the capacity gain is less than 5% from 13.8 to 14.6 volts. Anywhere between there for the bulk absorb voltage is fine. If the battery hits full, and you run it down below 11 volts, then you need more battery capacity for your loads. And if the battery won't get full, then you need more solar to charge it up.

 

[Rocketman]

You need to make sure ALL battery charging sources are set correctly. The Solar Charge Controller 150/45 and your 120v battery charger (Multiplus? Or whatever it is). They need set to Lithium batteries and absorbing voltage somewhere between 13.8 and 14.6 and float around 13.5.

What other equipment do you have? Smartshunt? What inverter?

 

[Sportzfann]

The default setting in the Victron charge controller is probably for flooded lead acid and that WILL damage your batteries, the BMS is saving them by disconnecting. For LFP cells, your absorb voltage should be about 14.4 volts or so, and then the float voltage should be 13.8 volts.

But if the cells are not well balanced, you may not be able to get the absorb voltage that high. Do the Li Time batteries have a monitor app? As they reach near full charge, it is common for one cell to start climbing faster. Set the absorb volts where that starts to happen to give the BMS time to balance the cells. And you may be able to creep it higher as they balance better. But to be honest, the capacity gain is less than 5% from 13.8 to 14.6 volts. Anywhere between there for the bulk absorb voltage is fine. If the battery hits full, and you run it down below 11 volts, then you need more battery capacity for your loads. And if the battery won't get full, then you need more solar to charge it up.

this is my current settings for multiplus (photo) and charge controller, I went and modified the settings of the Solar charger they were already close.
The Litime manual only gives general settings for charger and solar charging, so I tried to follow those and the comments of this group.
solar charger Absorb V 14.4v. Float 13.5 v

Sunshine-Eggo,
recommend you lower absorption voltage to 13.8V with a fixed absorption period of 2 hours to reduce the frequency and magnitude of the voltage spikes. Not sure how to adjust that, I will look into it is that in the Solar Chg. Settings?
the Solar history is showing this morning.
thanks to all for the help.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Generator charging is a different thing... you want to avoid absorption.

Set Multiplus absorption to 14.2V and float to 13.6V. If you see that you're in absorption, terminate charging.

The Settings wheel on the MPPT allows you to specify charge voltages.

 

[Sportzfann]

Generator charging is a different thing... you want to avoid absorption.

Set Multiplus absorption to 14.2V and float to 13.6V. If you see that you're in absorption, terminate charging.

The Settings wheel on the MPPT allows you to specify charge voltages

I will go in and modify the settings on the multiplus, I went in the solar charger and changed those settings already.

I noticed I am getting some good charging amps, and then it drops off to very little charging and then back up at higher rate again.
this is normal ? I have a renogy shunt and display at this time and think it might not be accurate as well…..
This is a learning process for me Thanks for the help.
these photos are within about 1 minute of each other, the solar charger was in bulk mode, charging and then discharging.

 

[Rocketman]

Since you have a Victron Multiplus, a Victron mppt (don’t forget you really need another 150/45 or a bigger one for your array size), consider getting:

Victron Smartshunt or BMV712 - this will talk to the other Bluetooth Victron items, it will correct the charge voltages, and let the items know the charge current at the battery. You will enable the Bluetooth VE.Network for that. Also your battery temperature sensor on the Multiplus will transmit too (if you have the Bluetooth dongle), so then you can say don’t charge the lithiums if temperature is below ______F (mine is set for something like 38F).

Also, look at getting the GX device (Cerbo, Cerbo-S, roll your own with a RassberryPi). I have the CCGX (older unit with a screen). This brings all the data together in one easy to understand screen (consider adding the screen - touch). My wife can look at the CCGX and understand what is going on and if she should start the generator to run the microwave or not.
Then turn on DVCC in the Cerbo - it does the same as the Bluetooth VE.Network, but adds a few more things.(also you don’t need the Multiplus Bluetooth dongle to get temps to all the other Victron items.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I will go in and modify the settings on the multiplus, I went in the solar charger and changed those settings already.

Good

I noticed I am getting some good charging amps, and then it drops off to very little charging and then back up at higher rate again.
this is normal ?

Certainly can be. The shunt should show the net current flow in or out of the battery. If you're charging at 30A and then you engage a 10A load, the shunt will show 20A.

The MPPT reported current should be its output regardless of loads. Every 10 minutes, the MPPT may conduct a "sweep" to see if it can find more power at a different voltage/current.

Your MPPT can log up to 45 days of data in the TRENDS tab when initiated and accessed via bluetooth.



Once you initiate it, it should be available to view historical data on the TRENDS tab.

 

[Sportzfann]

Since you have a Victron Multiplus, a Victron mppt (don’t forget you really need another 150/45 or a bigger one for your array size), consider getting:

Victron Smartshunt or BMV712 - this will talk to the other Bluetooth Victron items, it will correct the charge voltages, and let the items know the charge current at the battery. You will enable the Bluetooth VE.Network for that. Also your battery temperature sensor on the Multiplus will transmit too (if you have the Bluetooth dongle), so then you can say don’t charge the lithiums if temperature is below ______F (mine is set for something like 38F).

Also, look at getting the GX device (Cerbo, Cerbo-S, roll your own with a RassberryPi). I have the CCGX (older unit with a screen). This brings all the data together in one easy to understand screen (consider adding the screen - touch). My wife can look at the CCGX and understand what is going on and if she should start the generator to run the microwave or not.
Then turn on DVCC in the Cerbo - it does the same as the Bluetooth VE.Network, but adds a few more things.(also you don’t need the Multiplus Bluetooth dongle to get temps to all the other Victron items.

I will look at getting another larger SCC, I was getting a 41A reading with my fluke meter out of the MPPT at one point, but you are thinking I can pull more charging amps out of my panels, by adding another larger Mppt.? If I can get a higher amount of power out of my panels, I will look at getting a higher rated mppt. When I looked at this originally I saw the @ 10A per panel so figured 4 panels and I have a 150/45 A
mppt, I should be good. I will get the smart shunt and at some point a Cerbo gx the Victron stuff is expensive. The panels are 2S 2P to keep the volts lower, I couldn’t run all in series. This solar and lithium batteries is a learning experience for sure, trying to get them all synced up.
thanks Sportz

 

[Rocketman]

I will look at getting another larger SCC, I was getting a 41A reading with my fluke meter out of the MPPT at one point, but you are thinking I can pull more charging amps out of my panels, by adding another larger Mppt.? If I can get a higher amount of power out of my panels, I will look at getting a higher rated mppt. When I looked at this originally I saw the @ 10A per panel so figured 4 panels and I have a 150/45 A
mppt, I should be good.

Yea that’s the “magic” of the mppt’s. If you had a cheaper older pwm solar charge controller it just puts the amps into the battery- so a 40-45a pwm would be the right size.

But the mppt’s convert the excess voltage to amps and put it all into battery at the proper voltage.

Remember it may be cheaper for you to split your solar array from 2S2P into two arrays of 2S (or maybe 2p - need the exact specs of the panels to know if that’s better), run another set of cables down from the roof and just buy another 150/45. Versus buying a 150/70 or 80 and trying to sell the 150/45 - it may be cheaper but more work running the cables. Just changing out to the 150/70 or 80 will be a lot easier. Remember you will need to increase the size of the wires from the mppt to the bus bar/battery.

Good Luck!

 

[GXMnow]

If I can get a higher amount of power out of my panels, I will look at getting a higher rated mppt. When I looked at this originally I saw the @ 10A per panel so figured 4 panels and I have a 150/45 A
mppt, I should be good.

In your first post you said you have 4 x 325 watt panels.
4 x 325 = 1,300 watts in idea sun conditions.
1,300 watts / at 13 volts = 100 amps of charge current is possible. More likely it will be around 80 Amps, but that is still a lot more than the 150/45 amp MPPT can push on it's own. Using a second 150/45 would probably be a very good fit for you, put 2 panels in series on each controller and you can hit up to 90 amps of charge power. With 2 MPPT controllers, you could also have them turned for different times of the day. Turn east a bit for more morning power, and turn west a bit for more evening power.

I have 2,000 watts of panels on a Victron MPPT 150/35 But I am going into a "48 volt" battery bank where the typical charge voltage is more like 54 volts. 2,000 watts / 54 volts = 37 amps. So I might just top out my controller in perfect solar conditions, but these are also cheap panels from Amazon. I have never seen them top 80% of their rated power yet. 1,600 watts / 54 volts = 29.6 amps.