Victron. Want to hire an expert. Around SE.

[John Frum]

But its only 5 seconds, it should not clear on its own.
I guess the inverter is dropping out, presumably on over-current.
Coffee-maker, heater and curling iron could do that.
Never mind that I asked for a small load.

 

[HRTKD]

The thought that there is a shock hazard may not be valid. Shock hazards are usually due to incorrect wiring on the AC side, usually from the shore power connection. If you aren't encountering a shock now, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. The dealership likely didn't change the AC wiring between the shore power plug and the Automatic Transfer Switch (ATS). What most likely happened is that they took the wire coming out of the ATS that went to the main distribution panel and routed it to the inverter(s). If the dealership left off a ground wire when they did that then I could see a problem. But it's unlikely.

 

[Rocketman]

I think the flicker of the lights and the 5 seconds was the Multiplus got overloaded by having the microwave on plus a curling iron on. That sounds like my rig when my wife has the microwave on and starts the toaster. The Multiplus shuts down for 5 or 10 seconds then it restarts. The error on my CCGX says low voltage (even though my batteries are fine).

A single Multiplus can only deliver 2400 watts (2200 when it gets hot and 1700 watts when it is really hot).

You will need to figure out what items are the first inverter and what items are on the second- so you don’t overload it.

Also do you have a Cerbo GX that shows the status of everything at once? Or how do you change the input current for the inverter inputs?

 

[Tecnodave]

Multiple batteries like that should be wired so that all cables go to buss bars both positive and negative, not through thin wall chassis tubing like it is, same length battery cables so voltage drop on cables is same from all batteries for balances current distribution, inverter cables too small, sloppy work in all

Pretty much all smooth_joey said I will agree with, poor installation wiring in general, but motorhome dealers are not wizards at wiring!

So three power sources.....shore 120/240 volts 50 amp...Onan 120/240 ???? and inverter 120/240 v. and what circuit does the transfer switch ....switch....its not 3 way??


Im on the left coast, Santa Cruz.......so only help from here...

 

[Barryga]

Thank you, guys, everything works ok, and it's been about nine months.
Yesterday I went through and torqued all the ends, including grounds, in the fuse box.
A lot of loose ends, but they are too spec now.

My initial concern was being told the new multiplex 3000 did not need a transfer switch and watching the RV repair guy on youtube in Washington state, and the transfer boxes tend to die a fast death, so he carries a couple in his van.

I will try to find a schematic on how to set the batteries up the proper way and get rid of the transfer box, and maybe I can do the job. If not like the water pump, I will buy a backup to carry.

I want to thank all of you for your help!
Barry

 

[John Frum]

Pretty much all smooth_joey said I will agree with, poor installation wiring in general, but motorhome dealers are not wizards at wiring!

This my best guess at the topology

Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software

tinyurl.com

If I am accurately modeling the topology, do you agree that their are multiple fault paths?
Can you see anything incorrect in my drawing or reasoning?

 

[Tecnodave]

If I am accurately modeling the topology, do you agree that their are multiple fault paths?
Can you see anything incorrect in my drawing or reasoning?

There are multiple fault paths in there!

NEC.......Neutral is bonded to ground at one point and one point only.

I just cant recommend anything that is not

”listed by ETL to UL1741” OR “listed by U.L. to U.L. 1741” OR “listed by TUV to U.L.1741”
OR “listed by any U.S. OSHA NRTL to U.L.1741”

“ tested by Nignbo deye to UL1741“ is a bunch of words that are meant to make you beleive that it is listed when if fact it is not “listed by a U.S. OSHA NRTL”

Occupational Safety and Health Adminstration Nationally Recognized Testing Organization

The NEC clearly states that all devices used in the electrical system must be “LISTED” to the applicable standard for the “intended use”

That very clearly means that if it is intended to be used in a 120/240 volt grid it must be listed to use it in a 120/240 volt grid, It must be labeled as such.


Disclaimer.....I do have an arrangement with Midnight Solar, Im a beta tester for their products, I do not receive any benefit for selling their product. I do get a price that you wont and I do get lifetime warranty, Ill post when one fails but no cigar yet.....4 MPPT controllers, Combiners, E-Panel, Lightening Arrestors, Big Baby boxes, breakers, Whiz-bangs, and at least 100 misc. items All items that required U.L. listing are “listed by ETL to U.L. 1741” my homeowners insurance requires it. I also have Inverters from Magnasine and Exeltech , also “listed to U.L.1741” by a NRTL

 

[John Frum]

Since OP doesn't have enough battery to run 2 x air conditioners.
I suggest he sell the 2x multiplus and get one of these instead.

MultiPlus-II 2x 120V - Victron Energy

The MultiPlus-II 2 x120V is the perfect one-box mobile solution for standard North American 50A 120/240VAC split-phase applications.

www.victronenergy.com

Still needs the transfer switch unless he wants to manually plug the generator into shore power.

 

[Barryga]

Since OP doesn't have enough battery to run 2 x air conditioners.
I suggest he sell the 2x multiplus and get one of these instead.

MultiPlus-II 2x 120V - Victron Energy

The MultiPlus-II 2 x120V is the perfect one-box mobile solution for standard North American 50A 120/240VAC split-phase applications.

www.victronenergy.com

Still needs the transfer switch unless he wants to manually plug the generator into shore power.

I can run both air conditioners as I did all summer long in Florida.
I have 2 of the multi plus 2 in now.
If not on shore power, all I need to do is fire up the oan generator and charge the batteries right up, and run the air at the same time.

 

[John Frum]

I can run both air conditioners as I did all summer long in Florida.

Off battery, they would only run for ~7 hours if you ran nothing else.

I have 2 of the multi plus 2 in now.

In where?
The pictures show legacy multipluses not multiplus 2
You would only require 1 multiplus 2

If not on shore power, all I need to do is fire up the oan generator and charge the batteries right up, and run the air at the same time.

In that case just run the air conditioner off of the generator and get rid of a life safety wiring issue

 

[John Frum]

Anyways this is all speculation until the topology is confirmed.

 

[John Frum]

Here is the topology I suggest.

Flowchart Maker & Online Diagram Software

tinyurl.com

 

[HRTKD]

If the two existing Multiplus devices are working, then there must be a clearly defined split in the AC system, correct? Otherwise an autotransformer would have to be in the mix.

I don't know that throwing out the two Multiplus is necessary. Yes, it probably could have been done with just one Multiplus II. But it's a little late for that.

 

[Tecnodave]

Otherwise an autotransformer would have to be in the mix.

An autotransformer is only used to “hack patch” a 230 volt system for use in a 120/240 volt system. The Victron units for sale in the U.S. are built for 120/240 volt service, They will not need an autotransformer

 

[HRTKD]

An autotransformer is only used to “hack patch” a 230 volt system for use in a 120/240 volt system. The Victron units for sale in the U.S. are built for 120/240 volt service, They will not need an autotransformer

Thanks, a misunderstanding on my part.

 

[Rocketman]

With the Multiplus (I believe) you will need a transfer switch.
You have two possible 120v inputs - a generator and shore power. The Multiplus only has one 120v input. You need a transfer switch to manage that. (If you had two Victron Quattro’s it has two inputs - so you would not need the transfer switch - it would be built-in).

Here are a few other questions- are the two inverters set up as split-phase (so they run together)? The Victron’s (I believe) only create the N-G bonding when they are in inverter mode. So once they are setup in split- phase - the Master inverter controls the N-G bonding.

If they are NOT setup in split phase and so each inverter is just running its downstream panel - did the installers disable the N-G bonding in one of the Multiplus’s? That’s a software option that I believe will fix the N-G bonding issue.

 

[John Frum]

With the Multiplus (I believe) you will need a transfer switch.
You have two possible 120v inputs - a generator and shore power. The Multiplus only has one 120v input. You need a transfer switch to manage that. (If you had two Victron Quattro’s it has two inputs - so you would not need the transfer switch - it would be built-in).

Here are a few other questions- are the two inverters set up as split-phase (so they run together)? The Victron’s (I believe) only create the N-G bonding when they are in inverter mode. So once they are setup in split- phase - the Master inverter controls the N-G bonding.

If they are NOT setup in split phase and so each inverter is just running its downstream panel - did the installers disable the N-G bonding in one of the Multiplus’s? That’s a software option that I believe will fix the N-G bonding issue.

I just checked and the legacy multiplus supports parallel operation in split phase mode.
Not sure if they are configured for it but it is a possibility.

 

[John Frum]

From the manual "4.4.8 Parallel ConnectionThe MultiPlus can be connected in parallel with several identical devices. To this end, a connection is established between the devices by means of standard RJ45 UTP cables. The system (one or more Multis plus optional control panel) will require subsequent configuration (see Section 5)." -- https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-3k-120V-(firmware-xxxx4xx)a-EN.pdf
If they are paralleled there should be an ethernet cable connected between the units.

 

[John Frum]

Setting up Parallel and three phase systems using the MultiPlus and Quattro inverter chargers

 

[Tecnodave]

Since OP doesn't have enough battery to run 2 x air conditioners.
I suggest he sell the 2x multiplus and get one of these instead.

MultiPlus-II 2x 120V - Victron Energy

The MultiPlus-II 2 x120V is the perfect one-box mobile solution for standard North American 50A 120/240VAC split-phase applications.

www.victronenergy.com

Still needs the transfer switch unless he wants to manually plug the generator into shore power.

OOPS......wrong on that one the Multiplus II can pass through 120/240 with 120/240 volts in or 120 volts only with a 120 volt input only but in invert mode it has 120 volt outputs, BUT.........It’s not 120/240 in invert mode

You would need two Multiplus II to get 120/240 volt output

Some can do 120/240 pass through from a 120 volt input and do 120/240 output from invert mode
All Magnasine MSXXXXAE and PAE models can as well as the Schneider SW series

Victron’s data is misleading, 2 X 120 volt outputs is not 120/240 volts

 

[vdub]

I'm late to the game on this thread, but WOW, you will have one serious system when all is said and done.

It's clear that the people that did your electrical system don't care at all about doing quality work.

The quote above was from someone way back on the first page. Unfortunately, that is true of the entire stinking RV industry. Crappy, shoddy, patched up, piss poor workmanship. They totally don't care. Once they get your check, the salesman disappears and the service guys are buried multiple levels deep in a never ending voice mail black hole. The whole industry should be ashamed of the product they put out.

That having been said, working on an RV is a bitch -- tight cramped small spaces to work in. Wires are strung everywhere with little or no documentation. And, if you think the install is a rat's nest of wires, you should have a look at the wires strung through the RV.

I will say that you bought really great equipment and once you have it working, you will have something to be proud of. Good Luck!!

BTW, 3 months ago, I bought a 2022 Thor Magnitude SV34. I absolutely love the F-550 diesel 4x4 chassis that it's build on. But, the shell and RV part leaves a little to be desired. Eventually, I'll get all the sawdust, loose screws, misaligned cabinets, broken drawers, and such fixed and I'll have a good rig. VW

 

[Tecnodave]

Setting up Parallel and three phase systems using the MultiPlus and Quattro inverter chargers

OOPS again.....3 phase from a 120 volt only inverter....ONLY if you are WYE 3 phase 120/208 volts NOT 120/240 DELTA 3 phase

 

[John Frum]

OOPS......wrong on that one the Multiplus II can pass through 120/240 with 120/240 volts in or 120 volts only with a 120 volt input only but in invert mode it has 120 volt outputs, BUT.........It’s not 120/240 in invert mode

You would need two Multiplus II to get 120/240 volt output

Some can do 120/240 pass through from a 120 volt input and do 120/240 output from invert mode
All Magnasine MSXXXXAE and PAE models can as well as the Schneider SW series

Victron’s data is misleading, 2 X 120 volt outputs is not 120/240 volts

The multiplus 2 can bypass split phase and provide power assist on one leg.

 

[John Frum]

OOPS again.....3 phase from a 120 volt only inverter....ONLY if you are WYE 3 phase 120/208 volts NOT 120/240 DELTA 3 phase

2x legacy multiplus can do parallel 120 or 120/240.
I presume you need 3 units to do 3 phase.
"4.4.9 Three-phase operationThe MultiPlus can also be used in 3-phase wye (Y) configuration. To this end, a connection between the devices is made by means ofstandard RJ45 UTP cables (the same as for parallel operation). The system (Multis plus an optional control panel) will require subsequently configuration (see Section 5).Pre-requisites: see Section 4.4.8. Note: the MultiPlus is not suitable for 3-phase delta (Δ) configuration" -- https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual-MultiPlus-3k-120V-(firmware-xxxx4xx)a-EN.pdf

 

[John Frum]

OOPS......wrong on that one the Multiplus II can pass through 120/240 with 120/240 volts in or 120 volts only with a 120 volt input only but in invert mode it has 120 volt outputs, BUT.........It’s not 120/240 in invert mode

You would need two Multiplus II to get 120/240 volt output

An inverter that can invert to split phase is not required for this implementation.
There are no line to line loads.