Watching 'Stupid' In Action...

[Bob B]

He got you on a technicality, why don't you just admit it?

Guess you didn't look at what the scientists, NASA, MIT, Smithsonian have to say about it.

 

[LeoThomson]

Guess you didn't look at what the scientists, NASA, MIT, Smithsonian have to say about it.

Where did life on earth come from?

 

[D71]

? ? Yup another thread I should have stayed out of.
?

hahaha

Where did life on earth come from?

Uranus U r anus?

 

[MurphyGuy]

He got you on a technicality, why don't you just admit it?

No, it wasn't a technicality.. at least not in the sense you're implying.

1st.. lets not change the focus of the discussion.. In no way shape or forum could we "contaminate the galaxy with life from our space probes".. That is the original statement that started this.. (see attached) I laughed at his gross and comical ignorance and he got offended and started looking for anything to back up his statement in any way that could render it a reasonable question to any degree.. This was his defense mechanism, and it is his MO (mode of operation) anytime he says something ridiculously stupid, which is often. He simply changes the argument, points it in a different direction, and then proclaims some obscure technical detail makes him correct.

2nd.. I didn't get him on a technicality, I simply showed him that the solar system, as described by a dictionary and science, does not end at the boundary of the solar wind. In fairness, one could call that a technicality, but science is a technical subject. The real problem is that the term Oort Cloud is new to Bob.. he probably spent time googling it because he thinks that being able to google something means one is an expert in everything one can google. Come to think of it, Heliopause and Termination Shock Wave Boundary are also probably all new to him. I suspect he probably spent the entire day on google.

The really sad part of this, is that instead of asking questions to learn something from someone who is a relative expert in this field (that's me as an amateur astronomer), he decided to use google. And he doesn't even use google correctly.. He types in "Voyager 1 has left the solar system", and gets articles from news media and public relations pages that back up his propensity for confirmation bias.

What he should have done is to just type in "Voyager 1 mission" to get all the relevant information.. Unfortunately, at his level of ignorance, anything that mentions a technical term would then also have to be googled.. It would take him weeks to get a full comprehension of the subject so he could argue about it.. and no F*ing way will Bob spend weeks learning anything.. That's never ever going to happen.

This is the problem with people like Bob.. and he's not unique or even rare by any measure. We use to joke back in the 80's and 90's that "now that discovery channel is here, everyone is an expert". That has changed, and now its google instead of the discovery channel. Same principle.

The root cause of a lot of these problems is that our media sources dumb things down... and when it comes to our general population, who possess the scientific understanding of a ten year old child, they have to dumb things down so far that they become inaccurate. Like my example about the bow shock in front of a boat.. it conveys the idea (sort of), but it is inaccurate.. it is also required because you can't teach a dumb monkey calculus.
In fact, when I argue with these idiots, I'm very careful these days of what and how I say things. Trying to convey information to them is almost always taken out of context due to their gross ignorance.

3rd.. Its Bob.. He's an expert in everything remember? He doesn't know jack squat about science, but he's an expert in global warming, virology, immunology, and now space probes that might "contaminate the galaxy with life"..

Okay.. Building a barn and have to go back to work.. damn hot and muggy outside and it sucks.

 

[D71]

is the solar system in the galaxy? Are we in a universe. When you have your head up your butt what happens when you fart?

 

[MurphyGuy]

Where did life on earth come from?

The consensus on this subject is starting to shift to "almost anywhere"

Where did life on earth come from, is a bit like asking where house dust comes from. It doesn't come from, nor is it required to come from, a singular source.

Most in this field are starting to think that life is inevitable in any location capable of supporting life that is stable for long enough for it to develop.

So for example.. Here on earth, our planet is bombarded by solar radiation, meteors, and our moon causes our core to slosh around, which also creates volcanic activity. Our sun bathes us in UV radiation from the long wave stuff, all the way up to the harmful short wave..

It is entirely possible that life on Earth took longer to develop than in other places.. and the reverse could also be true.. that even though we have all these problems, they speed things up.

Its a controversy without any good answers, and its going to remain that way until we send a probe to one of the sub surface oceans on the ice planets. If we find life there, it will answer a trove of questions (probably), and if we don't, it will also answer a trove of questions (probably).

Depends on what kind of life if we find it.

Humans have a strong propensity to seek out answers to our questions.. It's what separates us from the animals. The problem is, in the absence of good answers, we tend to accept bad ones.. _Not sure where that came from.

 

[Batvette]

They flat out admit that they dont even have an accurate estimate of the extent of the Oort Cloud.
Youre criticizing others quoting reliable references, but its obvious all youve done is shop Google results until you found the article which supports your position, even if it contradicts an article from the same reliable reference.

This NASA page also states:

"On Feb. 14, 1990, Voyager 1’s cameras were pointed backward and captured about 60 images of the Sun and planets -- the first "portrait" of our solar system as seen from the outside. "

And...

"On Dec. 16, 2004, Voyager scientists announced that Voyager 1 had reported high values for the intensity for the magnetic field at a distance of 94 AU, indicating that it had reached the termination shock and had now entered the heliosheath. The spacecraft finally exited the heliosphere and began measuring the interstellar environment on Aug. 25, 2012, the first spacecraft to do so."

So we are left with what is considered the boundaries of the solar system.
Obviously NASA has defined it as where the suns various influences become exceeded by that of the other forces within the galaxy. Youre insisting this boundary be extended to where the smallest influence of our sun can be detected. Even if other forces in this zone by other influences are greater.

However lets see what NASA and virtually every other source on the web actually says about the Oort Cloud.

"Though long-period comets observed among the planets are thought to originate in the Oort Cloud, no object has been observed in the distant Oort Cloud itself, leaving it a theoretical concept for the time being"

Thats right and I invite anyone to check any number of references.

Newscientist.com says this:

"Indeed, the need for a source for “long period” comets – bodies that pass us less than once every 200 years – is the only evidence we have for the Oort cloud's existence, and that is circumstantial to say the least.Mar 16, 2016"

So we are left with something we should have expected.

TurdeatingGuy is attempting an argument from authority over a very obtuse technicality making a claim which doesnt even stand up to the scientific method.

And he expects us all to fall at his feet and be educated in wide eyed wonder by him.

Thats never gonna happen bud because youre biased, arrogant, conceited, dishonest, childish, petty and cannot be trusted around small naked children.

 

[Batvette]

is the solar system in the galaxy? Are we in a universe. When you have your head up your butt what happens when you fart?

He takes a deep whiff, smiles and proudly announces, "thank you sir may I have another!"
Remember, though. He is an expert amateur astronomer.
Funny name for a guy who likely spends his saturday nights at his towns glory holes, asking "hey handsome, can I look for the Klingons on Uranus?"

 

[MurphyGuy]

They flat out admit that they dont even have an accurate estimate of the extent of the Oort Cloud.

Nope, we do not have an accurate estimate of it..

Youre criticizing others quoting reliable references, but its obvious all youve done is shop Google results until you found the article which supports your position, even if it contradicts an article from the same reliable reference.

You are very much mistaken. I've been an amateur astronomer for twenty years and study astrophysics as a hobby. Some play sports, others paint or play music.. I'm an astro and physics geek. I do occasionally have to google things.. Our solar system isn't part of my interests so if you ask me for the exact diameter of Venus or some other obscure piece of information, I'll probably have to look it up..
However, my comprehension and understanding of our solar system is about 100 times greater than anything you or Bob has. If you're into sports, your comprehension of sports statistics is probably 100 times greater than mine. That's how it works.

For basic stuff like "could we be spreading life thru the galaxy with our space probes?", I don't need to look that up.. Nor do I need to look up what NASA says about "spreading life thru the galaxy with our space probes", because its such a preposterously ridiculous assertion that it needs no attention. Its on the same level of "Could Venus be made of cheese" ??

The fact that Bob asked such a question tells me he has absolutely no comprehension about spacecraft speeds or the distances they need to travel.. or the size or scope of our solar system.. An honorable person would have said "oh, that was a silly question wasn't it? I don't study this stuff so thanks for the correction".. But Bob doesn't behave honorably.

This NASA page also states:

"On Feb. 14, 1990, Voyager 1’s cameras were pointed backward and captured about 60 images of the Sun and planets -- the first "portrait" of our solar system as seen from the outside. "

Yes.. so? When they say "seen from the outside", they mean "seen from the outside of the orbits of the planets" You know what it doesn't mean? It doesn't mean we've traveled outside our solar system are we're now spreading life in the galaxy with our space probes.

And...

"On Dec. 16, 2004, Voyager scientists announced that Voyager 1 had reported high values for the intensity for the magnetic field at a distance of 94 AU, indicating that it had reached the termination shock and had now entered the heliosheath. The spacecraft finally exited the heliosphere and began measuring the interstellar environment on Aug. 25, 2012, the first spacecraft to do so."

So we are left with what is considered the boundaries of the solar system.
Obviously NASA has defined it as where the suns various influences become exceeded by that of the other forces within the galaxy. Youre insisting this boundary be extended to where the smallest influence of our sun can be detected. Even if other forces in this zone by other influences are greater.

Our solar system is defined as everything that is affected by our star.. Period.. End of story. Regardless, even if the Oort Cloud didn't exist, we would still not be anywhere remotely close to "Spreading life thru the galaxy with our space probes".

It is comical, and quite revealing however, that you two have tried to re-frame the argument.. and we both know why.. because if you can somehow argue for one infinitesimal second that Voyager could have, might have, or should have, exited our solar system by 2 millimeters, then that qualifies as "spreading life thru the galaxy with our space probes".

Ignorance doesn't even begin to explain that level of rationalization, but that's par for the course with you two..

However lets see what NASA and virtually every other source on the web actually says about the Oort Cloud.

"Though long-period comets observed among the planets are thought to originate in the Oort Cloud, no object has been observed in the distant Oort Cloud itself, leaving it a theoretical concept for the time being"

Thats right and I invite anyone to check any number of references.

Newscientist.com says this:

"Indeed, the need for a source for “long period” comets – bodies that pass us less than once every 200 years – is the only evidence we have for the Oort cloud's existence, and that is circumstantial to say the least.Mar 16, 2016"

So we are left with something we should have expected.

That's good.. keep reading.. you might learn something.

TurdeatingGuy is attempting an argument from authority over a very obtuse technicality making a claim which doesnt even stand up to the scientific method.

And he expects us all to fall at his feet and be educated in wide eyed wonder by him.

Thats never gonna happen bud because youre biased, arrogant, conceited, dishonest, childish, petty and cannot be trusted around small naked children.

Hey, I'm making progress.. at the beginning of this conversation, you didn't even know what a Heliopause was, or what a Shock Wave Boundary was, or what an Oort cloud was.. And neither of you had any clue as to the distances involved between stars or solar systems.

By attacking your pride fueled hyper-ignorance, I forced you to educate yourself and it looks like I succeeded.

You're welcome.

 

[JeepHammer]

It helps me a lot when I feel suicidal. It allows me to calm down to the point where I can sleep.

And if you wonder why I feel suicidal some times, it is because of all the hate I see towards minorities. (I thought at least in the West we would be over that senseless hate after the atrocities we witnessed in NAZI Germany.) Thinking of withdrawing from news, social media and finding some remote place to live relatively self sufficient.

Morons will find you there too...

I'm the LAST DRIVEWAY on my county road, 17 miles from the nearest town, and they plugged in political signs on the mowed area at the end of my 9/10 mile long driveway.

Ideally, I'm the ONLY person that will see them, so why plug them in on posted private property?

One thing about political signs, they make good rifle range targets when recycled.
I have to pull them to mow, they are mine to do with what I want. I find this to be the best use of them.

Then there is the moron that decided to shoot at solar panels because they "Damage The Sun"...

Suicide?
I worked way too damned hard to SURVIVE to consider suicide.
I guess it's all in your experiences.

"Voyager 1 has left the Solar System. Will we ever overtake it?

Well... Not exactly...

It will take another 30-35 years to reach the oort cloud (according to NASA), and another 300 years to get through the oort cloud where it will technically 'Interstellar' depending on the definition of 'Interstellar' you subscribe to.

It's technically outside our solar system... That much almost everyone agrees on.

Since I'm not an astrophysicist, I can't make the call myself, so I'll let the actual professionals make the call.
It's not like a piece of trash that far out from me makes any difference in my life, so I'm just another spectator.

Trash, the calling card of the human race... Think about that for a second...

 

[LeoThomson]

Morons will find you there too...

I'm the LAST DRIVEWAY on my county road, 17 miles from the nearest town, and they plugged in political signs on the mowed area at the end of my 9/10 mile long driveway.

Ideally, I'm the ONLY person that will see them, so why plug them in on posted private property?

Because they don't want you feel left out.

One thing about political signs, they make good rifle range targets when recycled.
I have to pull them to mow, they are mine to do with what I want. I find this to be the best use of them.

I don't post signs on my lawn and pull any that do appear, right away.

Then there is the moron that decided to shoot at solar panels because they "Damage The Sun"...

I have seen some really dumb stories, but this is the first time I hear of some one shooting at solar panels.

Suicide?
I worked way too damned hard to SURVIVE to consider suicide.
I guess it's all in your experiences.

Just tired of the senseless hate.

 

[LeoThomson]

The consensus on this subject is starting to shift to "almost anywhere"

I should have worded it differently, I should have asked Bob where he believes life comes from.

Humans have a strong propensity to seek out answers to our questions.. It's what separates us from the animals. The problem is, in the absence of good answers, we tend to accept bad ones.. _Not sure where that came from.

I am ok with not knowing something, realizing I knew very little and would never know more than a fraction of what there is to know, was disappointing at first, but then I went to play football (soccer for Americans) with my friends. It didn't stop me from trying to gain knowledge though.

 

[Tulex]

Just tired of the senseless hate.

That's letting others influence your state of happiness with their behavior.
Unless people are physically affecting your well-being, that's on you.
All we can control is ourselves and how we let others into our world.

 

[JeepHammer]

I have seen some really dumb stories, but this is the first time I hear of some one shooting at solar panels.

Road signs, barns/sheds, farm equipment, cabins, even livestock, solar panels, anything that catches their eye...

I subscribe to de-evolution theory now after 50 years of seeing what stupid people do.

Just tired of the senseless hate.

Explained by de-elolution theory.
Humans are tribal and territorial by nature, take away higher brain function & critical thinking and it gets much worse since humans are more heavily armed now...

Consider former and current governers of Texas helped spread the rumors that solar panels damage the sun, spread that around on the internet a little and see which mentally ill persons pick it up...
And make firearms available to everyone and it can go wrong real fast.

Same with 'replacment theory' and any of the the other far right crap and you get mass shootings of humans instead of inanimate objects...

There is a reason I moved way out in the woods back in the 90s...

 

[MurphyGuy]

That's letting others influence your state of happiness with their behavior.
Unless people are physically affecting your well-being, that's on you.
All we can control is ourselves and how we let others into our world.

^^^^
That post should be framed with a spot light.

Your wisdom is either hard earned, or you read "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" by Stephen Covey. Good book..

The only person responsible for your feelings is you..

 

[Tulex]

^^^^
That post should be framed with a spot light.

Your wisdom is either hard earned, or you read "7 Habits of Highly Effective People" by Stephen Covey. Good book..

The only person responsible for your feelings is you..

Wouldn't call it wisdom, nor do I know the book. I just work really hard at recognizing what influences my happiness.

I'm very good at appreciating contentment. Basically, if I've got a warm room and food, I'm good. I'm lucky to be married 34 years with a relationship that has gotten better each year. Having a great relationship is bonus. ( Wife laughingly doesn't like being third ) Finding things that make me happy is more bonus. For me, understanding that contentment is a good base to work from, I can then protect that and add bonus to it.