What are the actual FINES for unpermitted solar installations?

[John.DS99]

Thank you, in my system, there is no grid connection. My battery, AIO, and Panels all have UL certs. My power outs all go to custom outlets I installed around the house. In most cases I could unplug solar & replug to utility in minutes in case the Brown Shirts arrive. Just kidding.

Seriously, I have had solar panels on my roof that are not seen in Google Earth shots, because they have only been up for 5 months or so and are hard to see from the street. So I feel rushed to get a permit in the next week or so to avoid the possibility of having a fine because of my very enjoyable hobby.

Also, I own the house, and I don't think homeowners are in the same oppressed class as the solar contractors. In fact the SOLARAPP system of my City's internet permit system isn't usable by homeowners, it's only for contractors. The owners are considered as oddball permit seekers if they want to do it themselves. Still I will have to pay the permit fee, and achieve a successful inspection...

I live in Sunnyvale CA, where we grow beautiful fruit trees and have fantastic weather and sun all year long. Except in December and January when it is a freaking nightmare of rain and clouds. All I do these days is pester people on this forum and curse my bad fortune.

 

[John.DS99]

FYI I have decided to follow the format of this youtuber for my first crack at the permit office

I bit dull, but very helpful in getting organized.

If anyone has suggestions on what to give the permit people it would be appreciated. They ask for drawings, but I think that is for contractors.

 

[Supervstech]

FYI I have decided to follow the format of this youtuber for my first crack at the permit office

I bit dull, but very helpful in getting organized.

If anyone has suggestions on what to give the permit people it would be appreciated. They ask for drawings, but I think that is for contractors.

A BIT?

 

[John.DS99]

Not completely, not going to be grid tied, but going to the permit office with these points in hand and see if they will take my money for a permit.

I have some questions for them, if anyone wants to take a shot at these, please do,

1. Is there a time requirement between permit application and inspection?

2. If a Solar Only (non grid) electrical panel will be part of my system, can those circuits be left out for the purpose of the inspection, or do I have to wire them all the way to an outlet.

3. If I specify 16 electrical panels on the permit application, can I install only 10 of these and add the other 6 optionally?


One to not ask - Can the system be energized prior to inspection?
It's one of those questions that if you ask you won't get the right answer.
Maybe it should be Do you want the system to be powered off when the inspector arrives?

 

[Hedges]

Sunnyvale, you said. Check on-line, what is required.
San Jose, for rooftop PV, issues permit on-line and no one looks at drawings until final inspection.

Permits expire after some period of time if no progress, no inspections. Maybe 6 months or a year or so.

A circuit with PV, inverter, some loads or outlets ought to be sufficient for inspection. I heard once that utility service connection requires one load to be approved.

I did try to get a GT PV system inspected with only a couple panels up, but he said to finish it first. Was getting close to expiration of CEC rebates, many years ago. Small difference in number of panels they may not spot.

Oakland, where I am presently doing a project, lists penalties for work done without permit (including demolition, I bigger penalty I think.) Non-permit might have had a fine 5x the permit cost.

Utility doesn't want you to backfeed before PTO. Of course you could try, with greater loads in house so no export, while standing there to shut off again after observing all is good. A backup system you could of course operate disconnected without offending Utility.

It would be appropriate to have all circuits dead when showing them to inspector with covers off. They probably know not to stick fingers anywhere, but just to be safe. I was powering one transferred load off the new panel, switched the feed off for his inspection.

That makes me hesitate to slap up some PV panels for the battery/inverter UPS system I wired up just lying on the floor. I'll run an extension cord from it to "generator" inlet to keep circuits live while I rewire things in the utility feed. (I'm doing service upgrade in stages, bring power to new meter and breaker, feeding smaller "backup" panel, later rip out old main panel and replace.)

 

[frasere2]

FYI I have decided to follow the format of this youtuber for my first crack at the permit office

I bit dull, but very helpful in getting organized.

If anyone has suggestions on what to give the permit people it would be appreciated. They ask for drawings, but I think that is for contractors.

Why waste your time, you can get the electric document done online for like $150. Maybe $300 if you need wet stamps from a local engineer. You still have to fill out all the rest for the permit.

 

[frasere2]

Not completely, not going to be grid tied, but going to the permit office with these points in hand and see if they will take my money for a permit.

I have some questions for them, if anyone wants to take a shot at these, please do,

1. Is there a time requirement between permit application and inspection?

2. If a Solar Only (non grid) electrical panel will be part of my system, can those circuits be left out for the purpose of the inspection, or do I have to wire them all the way to an outlet.

3. If I specify 16 electrical panels on the permit application, can I install only 10 of these and add the other 6 optionally?


One to not ask - Can the system be energized prior to inspection?
It's one of those questions that if you ask you won't get the right answer.
Maybe it should be Do you want the system to be powered off when the inspector arrives?

1) For the interconnection application (with elec co) to inspection, it was up to 2 years. For the permit application to approval pre-inspection was about 2 weeks, for permit approval to inspection, it was maybe 4 days.
2)
3) I am not sure, but why do this? I would think they would limit you to 10 then.

I energized mine as soon as it was ready. Elec co didn't say anything when electricity usage was substantially lowered (was only about 10 days). I don't think they will give credit, but will allow you to "use" your electricity that you made.

Our system was on and running when inspector arrived. Actually, he said he didn't go on roofs anymore so he only looked at ground level equipment.

Note, we did have a Pre-inspection where the inspector came to visit to inform us of what was needed beyond what we planned (nothing in our case). That limited the actual inspection to under 10 minutes. Just match what is on your electric diagram and there is no issue.

 

[Bop]

Hi, waves from Australia...
I can't get over that offgrid needs any kind of permits- here gridties need licenced installers and electricians, but offgrid systems like my own are literally 'do as you please' in town or in the country...
The only part that needs a licenced electrician to work on is anything on the mains side (although in many rural parts of the country even that is ignored)
When I had the council came for the shed inspection after it was finished (wasn't really required for a rural property but I plan on running a business from it eventually, so it makes insurance etc easier) and he didn't even look at them, simply not anything to do with the government...

 

[John.DS99]

Well I would move to Australia except for the fact that it sounded like the Nation was under house arrest during the COVID crap.

I think a lot of the concern over building codes & solar panels (at least where I live) relates to panels flying loose in high winds and damaging people & property. Then there are the electrical requirements (once the inspector is in your house). My wife worked in the design business & dealt with a lot of permit inspections. She says that generally new things added to buildings come under scrutiny and original construction isn't something they can touch. So they can't address real disasters that they see if they are original except in unusual cases (imminent hazard).

 

[Bop]

A load of nonsense was spread about us Aussies during that time- there were a couple of lockdowns in the cities (well only in a few suburbs mostly) but everyone wore masks and social distanced, we got through with pretty good results- we all had a good laugh about some of the garbage being spread online about 'concentration camps' and the like- most of the country you didn't even notice apart from the masks...

Offgrid solar here is basically totally 'do as you please' there's no permits of any kind required (even in town, as long as its offgrid and not connected to the mains grid then there's nothing to apply for)- you can even do the high voltage stuff as long as it has plugs on it-so connecting panels etc is fine too- as long as you don't have to use tools, you can do as you please...
Even gridties- there's nothing to apply for- but you have to use licenced installers and electrician to do grid tie- you want solar- just pick up the phone/search online, select the company you want and tell them 'I want solar'- they come out and do it all for you (there's paperwork for them to do, but you don't see any of that, and you don't have to apply or anything- just keep it under the limits and good to go (ie 5kw of inverter power if you are on a single phase 230v supple, but if you have three phase connected to your house (many do) then you can have up to 30kw total (10kw per phase)- Your total involvement is call them up, say you want solar, and pay them when its installed (about $$3500Au to $4000 Au for a 6.6kw of solar on a 5kw inverter fully installed, about $6000 to $7000 for a 10kw system...)

 

[John.DS99]

I go for days and never hear another voice or see a car …..unless their lost..

I like that…

J.

What's for supper? A hiker.

 

[JRH]

What's for supper? A hiker.

Haaaa… possibly if I have enough teriyaki ….

 

[JRH]

I bet Google earth will catch you some day!

Well, if I ever see the Google drone outside , I will proudly give them a “special standing salute”..
Sir, Yes Sir, Ready For Duty Sir ….

 

[Hedges]

Got a telescope?

(How about a high-powered laser?)

 

[green mountain boys]

I dont see why a HOMEOWNER couldn't purchase and mount their own panels (without wiring them up). There are requirements from NEC and State/residential codes.

Mine includes "Panels shall be anchored to the roof framing at a maximum of 4’ on center vertically and horizontally." Which is different from most locations that require 6' by 6'.

Roof Access and Pathways (2019 CRC R324.6)
•PV panels shall be located to provide the following roof-top clearances (except for roofs with aslope of 2:12 or less)
•At least two pathways, on separate roof planes from lowest roof edge to ridge and not less than36 inches wide, shall be provided on all buildings. Not fewer than one pathway shall be providedon the street or driveway side of the roof. For each roof plane with a photovoltaic array, apathway not less than 36 inches wide (914 mm) shall be provided from the lowest roof edge toridge on the same roof plane as the photovoltaic array, on an adjacent roof plane, or straddlingthe same and adjacent roof planes. Pathways shall be over areas capable of supporting firefighters accessing the roof. Pathways shall be located in areas with minimal obstructions such asvent pipes, conduit, or mechanical equipment. (2019 CRC R324.6.1)
•For PV occupying 33% or less of the roof, an 18” setback is required on both sides of the ridge.
•For PV occupying more than 33% of the roof, a 36” setback is required on both sides of the ridge.(2022 CRC R324.6.2)

It doesn't take a licensed electrician to drill screws into the roof.

I agree with you. Some people around here have had trouble finding a professional willing to wire stuff they did not install. If I were going to go that route I would line up an installer before I started the work.

 

[Partimewages]

The main reason this type of installation doesn't work is most in the residential market don't do plans and specifications. It would drive up the cost to be competitive. The residential contractor has to be competitive with competition.

 

[John.DS99]

I agree with you. Some people around here have had trouble finding a professional willing to wire stuff they did not install. If I were going to go that route I would line up an installer before I started the work.

I have another thread where I beat that horse to little pieces. I think I understand it. One observation I would like to share with DIYers is no one should be spending a lot of money on mounting panels. It isn't that hard. We should have a contest for the simplest / cheapest design.

Really all you have to do is mount the panels to the roof frame (depends on roof) and get them a couple of inches up in the air and parallel to the roof surface (your codes may vary, read them).

At that point you may find that a bolt driven into the roof and some type of hardware that attaches your panel to that bolt is all you need to meet code requirements.

I believe that people who spend $5-10K on mounting hardware are wasting money. You don't have to do that, but you can get talked into it if you aren't thinking.