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What are the actual FINES for unpermitted solar installations?

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Clipper81

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What are the actual FINES if they catch you with unpermitted Solar in California?

The ostensible reasons for permits, of course, are the risks; public safety, liability and insurance, resale value and/or liability when the house gets sold. Liability if your installation kills some unfortunate PG&E worker.

But how would they discover your unpermitted installation? What is the title of the actual person who would put their eyes on it, and make legal trouble for you?

Would you get a nasty letter from PG&E if you suddenly zeroed out your usage? You may not get paid for it, but what if you started feeding small amounts back into the grid, without closing your account? How about larger amounts? Do you think they watch your individual bill that closely? What kind of "checks and balances "do they have?

Do you think the cops would show up at your door? The FBI? The CIA? The FAA? The USCG? President Biden himself?

I am being facetious of course, but I really want to know. The whole situation reminds me of photos of World War II, where two Nazi guards are marching 500 prisoners off to their deaths. A revolt could easily overcome the guards, though one or two prisoners might get picked off… and then of course they would have to figure out how to get out of Germany after that... but the prisoners were so defeated in their own minds that they just marched off to their deaths with resignation and without a fight.

Or the IRS, where they are well documented as committing horrible financial atrocities on innocent citizens... so to maintain "voluntary compliance" (fear,) they pick out one or two high profile individuals a year and make a highly publicized example out of them.

Is that what would happen? Would you see yourself on TV? As in "California resident fined $50,000 for illegal solar installation… details at 11..." Fie upon thee, evil knave! Shame that rotten bastard!

I truly didn't mean to wax political or philosophical with this question, But I do want to know… Can anybody cite me the actual California county or city code, law or regulation, by number, that spells out a dollar amount, or whatever else they "could" do to you if "caught" with "illegal," unpermitted solar? I can't seem to find anything online, but then again, I'm not a lawyer. Maybe I just don't know where to look.

Like most decisions in life, installing unpermitted solar is a matter of risk versus reward….
 
IMO, the Permits function or the County, or Municipality, the Utility would care, as you noted.

There is also the "Deparating Load" charges that would probably be asessed, by the Electric Utility, if the site in question had ever been served by the utility with the franchise for the location of the "Load Departer", and so on ... :

Probably would require serving time in Leavenworth, just a drive-by, 'Luke'
 
Tough to hide a solar installation from the various map programs that provide a bird's eye view. As to fines? Depends on your reaction to getting caught. Might be a few bucks, might be tear it all down and pay $$$.
 
I was told by my Electrician that the moment your electricity consumption drops by a certain amount versus what the computer expects it to be over a three month period it triggers an automatic Inspection alert.
As he predicted this happened to me even though I had already been inspected and approved.
Three to four months later guys up and did an inspection.
Maybe they do it this way to prevent any kind of possible collusion happening with their inspectors and private electricians. Another possibility is that it is a secondary check to make sure you did not change anything that was passed in the original inspection.

I don't think there is much that they could do to you but I do know a guy who did some stuff to save power and they basically cut his service and refused to hook it back up unless he made a huge deposit and did a number of modifications to his electrical system.

For me just the thought that if there is a fire or something else my insurance will be denied, is more than enough to keep me from even thinking of messing around.
 
Worst case scenario, if you don't correct it per their instructions.
1. The power company disconnects you.
2. The local building inspector condemns your house.
3. If you don't vacate the condemned house, you go to jail.
 
Depends where you live. If you’re putting panels on your roof, especially. Those things can blow off and injure someone. In the city I’m at, they required structural design, electrical, along with permitting.
 
In Indiana, the County tax assessor would likely notice any stuff outside when they do the annual walk around. Then the assessor would notify code enforcement.
IMHO, the real motive behind building permits is to let the assessor know of the existence of the taxable asset so that the assets can be taxed.

Edit: Correction: Indiana exempts solar equipment from property taxes.
 
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County assessors' offices in California scan satellite photos for unassessed property improvements because they have a strong financial incentive to do that. But since solar installations are exempt from property tax in California, your assessor shouldn't care if you have one, permitted or not.

Permits only cost a few hundred dollars so I doubt that permitting departments bother to look for unpermitted property improvements. But if they did learn you have an unpermitted installation they probably could force you to take it down until you complied with their requirements. Maybe they could fine you as well. I don't know how much.

People outside of PG&E's service area have reported that backfeeding without permission triggers a site visit from the power company. PG&E probably would send someone out to demand that you disconnect your system until you complied with all the paperwork requirements and received their permission to operate your interconnected system. I don't think they have the authority to fine you, but I don't really know. PG&E probably wouldn't do anything if your bootleg PV system reduced the amount of electricity you buy from them, as long as you didn't reduce it by a huge amount or backfeed. I never heard from them when I disconnected my irrigation pump from their lines and reduced my household consumption by 40%. But I'm sure they would ask what is going on if you zeroed out your consumption without closing your account.
 
I was told by my Electrician that the moment your electricity consumption drops by a certain amount versus what the computer expects it to be over a three month period it triggers an automatic Inspection alert.
As he predicted this happened to me even though I had already been inspected and approved.
Click to expand...

I would think that if the load drawn varied with the sun, that would be a flag to some algorithm that you're back feeding. But what about partial load shedding without changing with the sun? (completely off grid load shedding). If someone got rid of the spare old fridge and switched to LED lighting from incandescent, that could equate to the same amount of savings.
 
AlpineJoe said:
I would think that if the load drawn varied with the sun, that would be a flag to some algorithm that you're back feeding. But what about partial load shedding without changing with the sun? (completely off grid load shedding). If someone got rid of the spare old fridge and switched to LED lighting from incandescent, that could equate to the same amount of savings.
Click to expand...
I think they just use a set percentage drop in consumption each month for three consecutive months.
Maybe 40% drop or something that just cannot be explained by an appliance being removed.
Does anybody still use Incandescent bulbs anymore?
 
There was a thread a while back where a solar install crew allegedly called in a forum member’s… very loosely secured temporary rooftop setup… to the building dept (and frankly the snitch did a solid public service). Snitching is standard way to catch this for non solar too.
 
robby said:
I think they just use a set percentage drop in consumption each month for three consecutive months.
Maybe 40% drop or something that just cannot be explained by an appliance being removed.
Does anybody still use Incandescent bulbs anymore?
Click to expand...
With seasonal loads, it’s a crap shoot at what loads come and go. I really thinks you give the utilities and the kilowatt cops too much credit.

I’ve ranged from 400-800Kwhr over the course of a few months.
 
740GLE said:
With seasonal loads, it’s a crap shoot at what loads come and go. I really thinks you give the utilities and the kilowatt cops too much credit.

I’ve ranged from 400-800Kwhr over the course of a few months.
Click to expand...
No, I think they match your Jan, Feb and Mar 2023 bill to your Jan-Mar 2024 bill. Plus the software probably takes into account the daily temperature readings.
Utility companies use a lot of software to predict line load based on weather and other factors like holidays etc.
 
robby said:
No, I think they match your Jan, Feb and Mar 2023 bill to your Jan-Mar 2024 bill. Plus the software probably takes into account the daily temperature readings.
Utility companies use a lot of software to predict line load based on weather and other factors like holidays etc.
Click to expand...
I'll let you know in a few months then....
 
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