Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
Is NOT a 25kVa ISOLATING transformer.a autotransformer for $372 at signature solar
Is NOT a 25kVa ISOLATING transformer.a autotransformer for $372 at signature solar
You miss the point that system capacity is greatly increased with the 2 units. Take the LV6548 for instance, it takes 3 of the 5000ES 240V inverters to equal a pair of LV6548's or EG4's for output.
No, you have 240V and need a transformer to get split phase. If the transformer fails, what do you have? 240V
Sig Solar shows the 5000ES at $900 x 3= $2700, the EG4 is $1300 x 2= $2600. The 5000ES requires a transformer, additional $350. Where is the savings?
Watts247 specifically states, "We do not support the External Auto Transformer Method, as it poses danger of fires when there is a possibility of unbalanced phases, research this topic yourself houses burning to the ground with missing Neutral"
Aside from a transformer failure you could have multiple 240V units fail and still have split phase power. Not possible with the way mpp and others do this at the moment unless you want to by four units. That's all I was saying. You're right though the transformer is the weak point so I guess double up on those..some are. And, I'd assume capacity is a concern regardless what system you choose with inverter failure.You miss the point that system capacity is greatly increased with the 2 units. Take the LV6548 for instance, it takes 3 of the 5000ES 240V inverters to equal a pair of LV6548's or EG4's for output.
No, you have 240V and need a transformer to get split phase. If the transformer fails, what do you have? 240V
Sig Solar shows the 5000ES at $900 x 3= $2700, the EG4 is $1300 x 2= $2600. The 5000ES requires a transformer, additional $350. Where is the savings?
Watts247 specifically states, "We do not support the External Auto Transformer Method, as it poses danger of fires when there is a possibility of unbalanced phases, research this topic yourself houses burning to the ground with missing Neutral"
I believe that some vendors have backward compatibility in the firmware but you have a good point. A single unit has its cons to...it goes out you don't have anything.Think about this with stackable units, especially in split-phase. What happens a few years down the road when one dies, and you can't find the same model, or hardware/firmware version to replace it?
Technology moves fast, and companies are always coming up with new products to replace the old.
Exactly.Think about this with stackable units, especially in split-phase. What happens a few years down the road when one dies, and you can't find the same model, or hardware/firmware version to replace it?
Technology moves fast, and companies are always coming up with new products to replace the old.
It wouldn't have 240V split phase with a pair and one goes down, however one could change the settings and still have 120V on one half of the panel.Aside from a transformer failure you could have multiple 240V units fail and still have split phase power. Not possible with the way mpp and others do this at the moment unless you want to by four units. That's all I was saying. You're right though the transformer is the weak point so I guess double up on those..some are. And, I'd assume capacity is a concern regardless what system you choose with inverter failure.
It wouldn't have 240V split phase with a pair and one goes down, however one could change the settings and still have 120V on one half of the panel.
The problems with transformer failures are covered in detail in the various 5000ES threads. You have this thread started by Will. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/s...ersion-when-connected-to-american-grid.33975/
only 11 pages. Compared to the 42 pages in the thread started by Sig Solar. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/safe-grid-use-of-the-5000es-and-transformer.34121/
One of the best posts in the thread was this one by HighTechLab. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/safe-grid-use-of-the-5000es-and-transformer.34121/post-429934
in the post, he made this comment. "Let's talk about the practicality though. These units retail at $784. If you are already invested in the inverters, this is a way to fix the issue on your hands if you can't return your inverters, assuming you have the inverter with the neutral-ground bond removed. Take the added after-the-fact cost as a learning lesson that the cheapest solution upfront isn't always the best solution long term."
If the inverter is 240V natively and you're splitting the phase with a isolation transformer and you have multiple units stacked for the only purpose of increased power and redundancy... you would still have split phase power if only one remained. This is assuming the transformer didn't go out. I'm not talking about having to use multiple 120V units in pairs to provide leg 1 and leg 2 like mpp. There's people out there with one 240V inverter with a transformer and split phase. Maybe I'm not understanding you...why would you loose split phase with a single 240V inverter and a working transformer?
Not possible with the way mpp and others do this at the moment unless you want to by four units.
If the neutral goes open, you will feed 240V out on the 120V circuits; I guess some people like new appliances........Most of this safety concern came about due to auto transformers being used from what I'm reading not isolation transformers that seem to be the safe way to accomplish this if one desires. The main issue was loosing the auto transformer and as such the neutral but then having the ground loop from the grid present itself.
No, I was not saying mpp or eg4 which is why I specifically stated a 240V native unit like the popular growatt. And, yes mpp does have single phase 240V European units. With a isolation transformer and the transformer is lost / neutral lost there's no circuit to complete...where is the 240 coming from? There's nothing to complete the circuit. I believe that was the main concern about the grid neutral getting bonded with a auto transformer.This is what I'm addressing, your comment is claiming that using 2 of the LV6548/EG4 inverters in split phase operation where one inverter goes down, there would not be any power. This isn't true, the settings can be changed in the functioning inverter and 120V would be available in half the panel.
If the neutral goes open, you will feed 240V out on the 120V circuits; I guess some people like new appliances........
Actually the transformer is the most reliable part of the system, it just causes the most problems IF it fails.the transformer is the weak point
Well, I agree with you 100% but...if it's lost you'd not have a working system. I'd just have two or a spare if cost feasible. It would seem the charger and inverter would be the weakest points.Actually the transformer is the most reliable part of the system, it just causes the most problems IF it fails.
There is a simple way to mitigate the problem but most seem to not understand it, so I just gave up...not my shit that blows up.
The SS auto transformer is only 5kW and no longer available- the one he got was 25 kVa and about same cost. 5 times biggerYour truck work with air?
:D
What i mean is that you can get a autotransformer for $372 at signature solar, if you are afraid to have a problem with it just buy 2 and make sure to connect the inverter where the autotransformer say you connect it, if the autotransformer fail and the breaker go down the inverter go down too, so no problem of missing neutral.
Where do you get a 25k isolated transformer soo cheap? that's a normal price or you get lucky? i want one.The SS auto transformer is only 5kW and no longer available- the one he got was 25 kVa and about same cost. 5 times bigger
This is what you posted,No, I was not saying mpp or eg4 which is why I specifically stated a 240V native unit like the popular growatt.
This is what you posted,And, yes mpp does have single phase 240V European units. With a isolation transformer and the transformer is lost / neutral lost there's no circuit to complete...where is the 240 coming from? There's nothing to complete the circuit. I believe that was the main concern about the grid neutral getting bonded with a auto transformer.
This is what I'm addressing, your comment is claiming that using 2 of the LV6548/EG4 inverters in split phase operation where one inverter goes down, there would not be any power. This isn't true, the settings can be changed in the functioning inverter and 120V would be available in half the panel.
If the neutral goes open, you will feed 240V out on the 120V circuits; I guess some people like new appliances........
The SS auto transformer is only 5kW and no longer available- the one he got was 25 kVa and about same cost. 5 times bigger,
Where do you get a 25k isolated transformer soo cheap? that's a normal price or you get lucky? i want one.
What I mean is that for mere mortals is normal buy stuffs on the shops at normal price.
You buy a used one. Transformers are widely available in the industrial power space, and for flexibility many have multiple taps allowing the input and output voltages to be changed as needed. You might get 440VAC three phase from the power company, and need to drive a 220VAC motor - pop a transformer in and you're done.
Generally you'll search for a kVA rating, not kW. Typical sizes available are 15kVA, 25kVA, 30kVA, 45kVA, and if you need much more than that you're going to need a forklift.
Further, they are generally 3 phase transformers, and most have taps for 120v. You can connect them for single phase usage, just be aware the efficiency drops, and you're only using 1/3 the transformer's material. You will have to either understand how to correctly connect it or get help, since the transformer diagram and manufacturer don't supply info on how to connect them for single phase usage.
But they are available used (ebay, craigslist) for $250 - $800, with shipping adding another $200. If you can pick one up locally, so much the better.
And they all hum the same tune.
They are widely used and available world-wide. The only countries where you might have a hard time finding a 3 phase 25kva transformer are those with little to no industrial sector in their economy.I don't live on USA.
I can find isolated transformer used on my country, one with 5kva cost $1000, for me a autotransformer new at $372 (i am including cost of the shipping, the autotransformer cost is $345) is heaven, and most people think the same, this is why people are buying then with the Growatt 5k, easy to install, easy to buy, etc.They are widely used and available world-wide. The only countries where you might have a hard time finding a 3 phase 25kva transformer are those with little to no industrial sector in their economy.
But that doesn't mean they are easy to find and/or cheap, and I'm sorry if that's the case for your location.
If the neutral goes open, you will feed 240V out on the 120V circuits; I guess some people like new appliances........