Will blasts Chargery

[Craig]

So here it is Will dislikes the Chargery BMS.
I don't disagree it's a bit quirky but. He proves how it is fully customizable even if it isn't for him. He does agree that once set up it works fine.

I hope everyone who considers buying a Chargery watches this video. I am still a huge fan but want people to see all sides of the issue.

He complains about discharging shutting off because cells differ to far in value however to me this is a feature not a bug.

I will see if I can get some of the default settings changed to make it easier to start using

 

[Pacer]

Thank you! I’m following this one closely and hope to learn this as my cells are heading my way!

 

[Bob B]

I think part of it is that Will is a dive right in and get it done kind of guy ..... not into having to read the manual. Maybe he didn't have the new manual.

I think if you order the shunt from Chargery along with the unit that it comes calibrated for that shunt.

 

[FilterGuy]

@Will Prowse talks about the relay getting very hot. I suspect that is the coil heating up, not the contacts. For me, the power being dumped into the relay coil is the biggest issue I have with the Chargery. However, for an installation where I can use the chargery outputs to turn the inverter and charge source on and off directly (No relays), a chargery might be a great solution.

Hopefully Craig can convince Jason to clean up the configuration some.

 

[Craig]

@Will Prowse talks about the relay getting very hot. I suspect that is the coil heating up, not the contacts. For me, the power being dumped into the relay coil is the biggest issue I have with the Chargery. However, for an installation where I can use the chargery outputs to turn the inverter and charge source on and off directly (No relays), a chargery might be a great solution.

Hopefully Craig can convince Jason to clean up the configuration some.

I'm actually going to see what I can do. Interesting that the coil got hot. Maybe the new SSR will help

 

[JoeHam]

I know I didn’t go through all the shunt calibration “mumbo jumbo” and mine seems to be accurate ?

I will find time to check against my clamp on dc ammeter next week.

I do not currently use any relays.

 

[Craig]

One other observation about the video.

Evidently Wills cells were a little out of balance since it stopped charging due to cell differences in voltage. I wish he would of shown the cell voltage screen and how you can quickly see where your bad cell is and how weather or not its a problem.

 

[Marinepower]

I like this BMS and its ability to control charging and load cut off independently. It might work well with a Victron Battery Protect for eg. on the load side. I would like to see it come out with compatibility for a latching relay also.

Can anyone confirm for me that the 8T version can work with a 2P-4S 13volt nominal configuration? I want to make sure that the SOC function, for e.g. will work property with this configuration. I have read the manual but this is not quite clear to me.....

 

[Steve_S]

PING @Chargery as this is a tread to look at Email sent with link to this thread.

1) He was also using V 3.03 of the manual, so pure Chinglish which is something we ALL LOVE right.
2) Even the old manual says the Shunt Provided is already calibrated for the BMS.
- He is very right, it is stupid thing to have to do though, that cold be improved, I have to calibrate as I use Deltec 500A/50mv shunts. it's a PITA !
3) The cell voltage differential is also a PITA in how it's programmed and it's action, should only be balance related but I "think" that is Balance while Discharge is ON may affect this an correct for it... something that needs testing & clarification.

Hmmm, guess the burnout is there, Will, I think it's the first time I could see it, the impatience in the vid and can recognize that a mile away.
BTW: Anyone NOTICE the last line on the front age of the manuals ? prolly not, Will didn't as he didn't use the new manuals. Plug for the forum...
maybe a bad idea....

@Marinepower YES, 2P4S will work fine but with parallel cells you lose the fine "per cell" management capability as cells are doubled (ghosting each other). The BMS requires 15-30V @ 3A therefore you will need to use an external power source as a 4S pack can't deliver that voltage.

 

[Marinepower]

Steve,

thxs for your reply. Just to clarify by what i meant by "2P4S" , i was referring to 2 packs of 4 cells, then wired in parallel. So (-,+,-,+) & (-,+,-,+) and not (--,++,--,++). Sorry if i'm using the abbreviations incorrectly...

 

[Craig]

So that will require 2 BMS but they will work from 2 to 8 cells.

 

[the_tux]

What confuses me about Will's video is that he uses only 1 relay. Looking at page 21 of http://chargery.com/doc/Chargery_BMS8T_specification_V4.0.pdf, the common port example shows 2 relays in series (which I think is kinda stupid).

If I want to use it on an AllInOne system I need a common port configuration, will I get away with only one relay?

BTW, I know it was somewhere but can someone tell me the power consumption of their relays, I'm wondering about the difference in the 200A - 600A range. Since Will complained about the heat seems I have to get a higher rated one.

Thanks

 

[Larry619]

Following this closely, too. I was about to dive into this BMS for my first build and man does it look complex. Doable, yes. Probably the best option for the build I’m after (heavy loads, independent from BMS current abilities)....but complex.

In the end I may still be getting this system. Doing a crash course in relays so I’m interested to hear results with the SSR options.

 

[tim0shel]

Not sure why he was calibrating the shunt as I recall even in the literature that it did not need this mostly only if you use a different one. I do not plan to calibrate mine and will try to test its accuracy at some point. I hope not to have too many issues with setting this up when I get there but seems like I have a long way to go yet. I've over customized and complicated my Portable "solar generator" build.

 

[stronkk]

I'm actually going to see what I can do. Interesting that the coil got hot. Maybe the new SSR will help

I have the same happening. The relay gets extremely hot just from keeping it closed. So the heat is coming from the current provided by the BMS and does not come from the actual load.

 

[Steve_S]

OKAY... Clarification Time:
1) Long Email on way to Jason @ Chargery with details and programming info. Chargery addresses issues and sorts them. They did not have Cold Temp cut-off till I asked Jason to add that function and the reasoning for it, it was done in < 10 days

2) Relay Heat is generated by the Contactor circuit, NOT the power going through the relay. These are "Basic" Heavy Duty Continuous Use contactor relays. Other relays such as Solid State Relays, Energy Savers from TE, Gigavac, Dongya & others, and even latching relays with bosch style sub-relays can work very well. ** To that end I have Energy Savers & SSR's in transit (held up due to Covid) to test BUT I am NOT spending more of my own money to test different ones and to document that, I am NOT a business and just a retired geezer using this stuff.
* One set of SSRS I have en-route are stuck in Korea another pair is stuck in Hong Kong, No word on Chargery's SSR's which they are working on.

3) Shunts provided by Chargery are precalibrated to the unit. So if you order a BMS8T-300 it will come with a matched & calibrated 300A shunt but these are 75mv shunts and have no base. I use Deltec 500A/50mv shunts so I do have to recalibrate for them. This is a SORE POINT for me as well and have noted that to Jason to address. it really is back asswards.

TWO Relays for Common Port: One relay controls charging the other discharging. By not having one relay in place, that function / capability is negated. Using external relays allows for higher charge capacity as well as higher discharge capacity. If your building a 100AH pack and will only charge it at max .5C or 50A, FET based ones will do that BUT they cap out around 100A for charging on the biggest ones. But if you have 200AH or 500AH or 1000AH, 50A charge rate becomes a limitation and more serious the bigger the packs gets. .5C for a 280AH pack is 140A. There are many ways to configure such depending on the equipment you are using, the common port & separate port examples in the docs are just basic examples and not the only way to configure the system. A whole manual could be written around different configurations.

 

[Craig]

I have also spoken with Jason as I have spent over $10,000 with him over the past months. He is very willing to fix issues. The devices work great for my system so I have not asked him to do much.

I do not know but I think the current calibration issues are due to the cheap shunts they supply. I'm guessing that they all may be a little different hence you can not just use the ratings printed on the shunt. This probably is not a problem for most cases

I actually use Jason's method to help confirm the calibration on the shunts I use to test batteries.

 

[Cal]

I actually like this concept of current calibration. It may be tedious, but it's very accurate. There are a lot more error sources than the shunt when measuring current. There's probably an instrumentation amplifier, resistors and an A/D involved. Chargery's method of calibration will correct all offset and scaling errors. My vote is to maintain measurement accuracy over a slightly complex calibration.

Regarding cold temp charge cut-off: Even though this feature was not listed in the setup or programmable, my first Chargery BMS (purchased last year), had a disconnect at 0 C.

 

[Steve_S]

I have also spoken with Jason as I have spent over $10,000 with him over the past months. He is very willing to fix issues. The devices work great for my system so I have not asked him to do much.

I do not know but I think the current calibration issues are due to the cheap shunts they supply. I'm guessing that they all may be a little different hence you can not just use the ratings printed on the shunt. This probably is not a problem for most cases

I actually use Jason's method to help confirm the calibration on the shunts I use to test batteries.

Jason is very good at addressing issues and such, we now have a detailed ongoing pile so I am sure some will get dealt with quickly while a couple may be a tad more difficult in the short term. We have talked about the Shunt issue before. I have previously had poor luck with the type of shunt they supply, hence why I use the Deltec but Bogart Shunts re also really quite good too, IMO I think Chargery could provide a better grade of shunt.

PS Craig, the SSRS from LieChuanTec are stuck in Hong Kong according to Allen, he was checking mine this morning as to where they got off to and mentioned that yours & mine are stuck there for now.

 

[Steve_S]

I actually like this concept of current calibration. It may be tedious, but it's very accurate. There are a lot more error sources than the shunt when measuring current. There's probably an instrumentation amplifier, resistors and an A/D involved. Chargery's method of calibration will correct all offset and scaling errors. My vote is to maintain measurement accuracy over a slightly complex calibration.

Regarding cold temp charge cut-off: Even though this feature was not listed in the setup or programmable, my first Chargery BMS (purchased last year), had a disconnect at 0 C.

Update the firmware and you will get the Cold Temp cutoff for Charge & Discharge settings.