Wire larger than supported by breaker?

[cm119]

I’m in the middle of an install by a solar contractor, and have a question on how they have the main panel breaker wired. This is a SolArk install, so the SA is powering the entire panel via the main 200A breaker. They specified 3/0 copper cable, but the 4-lug main breaker doesn’t support that large of cable, so they trimmed down some conductors to fit. They are only using 2 of the 4 lugs. Any concerns or code violations with this? They also have one of the screws pretty mangled, lost another one, then broke one lug completely off the breaker.

 

[fromport]

I’m in the middle of an install by a solar contractor, and have a question on how they have the main panel breaker wired. This is a SolArk install, so the SA is powering the entire panel via the main 200A breaker. They specified 3/0 copper cable, but the 4-lug main breaker doesn’t support that large of cable, so they trimmed down some conductors to fit. They are only using 2 of the 4 lugs. Any concerns or code violations with this? They also have one of the screws pretty mangled, lost another one, then broke one lug completely off the breaker.

I doubt any inspector will let that pass.
On the other hand: it is currently hooked up to trip at 100 amp.
That is enough for the de-rated 3/0.
You as a customer should not accept this since this is not a 200 amp pass through solution, as they probably wrote down in the quote to you.

 

[BentleyJ]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, this is an absolute abortion. The 2 x 200A feed from the Sol-Ark needs to be split into 4 x 100A using a 2 pole distribution block and all 4 x 100A rated wires need to be landed on the main breaker, without modification of the stripped area of the wires.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Very unacceptable. They definitely need to fix that.

 

[Hedges]

Biggest issue, all ganged poles need to be used. Probably only carries 100A as shown.

Polaris connector could fan 1 big wire out to two smaller.
Better might be 2 smaller all the way to inverter, so wire resistance helps balance current between breaker poles.

 

[OzSolar]

Wow, that is nasty.

 

[cm119]

On the other hand: it is currently hooked up to trip at 100 amp.

This was my other concern, is this really still a 200A pass through, or only 100A since it’s only using ‘half’ of the breaker?

 

[BentleyJ]

This was my other concern, is this really still a 200A pass through, or only 100A since it’s only using ‘half’ of the breaker?

Not a 200A pass through

 

[cm119]

Thanks all. This hasn’t passed final yet, so I hope this was just temporary and they are planning on fixing it, but I will make sure they do.

 

[timselectric]

No inspector would pass this.
If they did, someone should talk to their boss.

 

[LithiumCowboy]

This is extremely low quality work. You need find another solar installer. If this is what the breaker box is looking like (this is incredibly simple to do properly) then who knows what else unsafe installations they have done to your system.

 

[rodrick]

That wouldn’t even pass the farmers electric code book even we have some standards ?

 

[EastTexCowboy]

That wouldn’t even pass the farmers electric code book even we have some standards ?

I was just thinking similar thoughts. I'm not exactly a master electrician, or even an electrician at all, and there's no way I would cobble together something like this. I'll rig up lots of things on the ranch to get by but I gotta call BS on this work. I can't even see any decent electrician doing this as a "temporary" solution.

 

[cs1234]

I'm guessing the actual permit pulling electrician for this job hasn't been to site to check anything.

 

[rhino]

Why is there so much damage to that breaker? The bottom terminal looks like the terminal was completely torn out. The top one is missing the set screw and the other two screws have a lot of damage. Was it like that before they started this?

 

[timselectric]

Why is there so much damage to that breaker? The bottom terminal looks like the terminal was completely torn out. The top one is missing the set screw and the other two screws have a lot of damage. Was it like that before they started this?

I'm just guessing. (With years of experience)
In the attempt to put too large of a wire into the lug. They removed the set screw to see what was getting stuck. Then when they tried to reinsert the set screw there wasn't enough available threads to get a good hold before it got tight. And they stripped out the threads.

 

[timselectric]

It needs to be done right. Which now includes replacing the breaker.

 

[CoolWill]

What a hatchet job. Kinda strange also that the panel, from what we can see of it, looks relatively new-ish, but there is a 40+ year old Crouse-Hinds breaker in it.

 

[Skypower]

What a hatchet job. Kinda strange also that the panel, from what we can see of it, looks relatively new-ish, but there is a 40+ year old Crouse-Hinds breaker in it.

Some electricians are packrats. When they replace a panel for a newer larger one, they may scavenge some of the better breakers especially if they are obsolete. If they are called to just replace an old breaker they got one. 25 years ago that’s exactly what the guy did with my old breaker box when I was forced to upgrade for an HVAC.

 

[cm119]

What a hatchet job. Kinda strange also that the panel, from what we can see of it, looks relatively new-ish, but there is a 40+ year old Crouse-Hinds breaker in it.

Main panel was replaced as part of the project. They re-used the old breakers, including that very old one. The rest of the breakers aren’t that old, just this one.

 

[cm119]

I'm guessing the actual permit pulling electrician for this job hasn't been to site to check anything.

Funny story. The electrician doing the panel upgrade had no idea what he was in for, the solar guys didn’t explain this setup to him before he arrived on the job. They didn’t have a very good plan either, so I could tell they were scrambling trying to get the work done and power turned back on. I was told they would have an inspection in the afternoon. Then at the end of the day I asked again about the inspection, and they said ‘oh he came at 9am, and just signed us off, we work with him all the time and he knows our work.’ So the solar contractor, electrician, and inspector have all dropped the ball here. The inspector has since been back once for the underground inspection, but I’m not sure if he looked into the panel at that time. Final is this week, if the contractor says it’s fine I’ll have to ask the inspector directly.

 

[timselectric]

Funny story. The electrician doing the panel upgrade had no idea what he was in for, the solar guys didn’t explain this setup to him before he arrived on the job. They didn’t have a very good plan either, so I could tell they were scrambling trying to get the work done and power turned back on. I was told they would have an inspection in the afternoon. Then at the end of the day I asked again about the inspection, and they said ‘oh he came at 9am, and just signed us off, we work with him all the time and he knows our work.’ So the solar contractor, electrician, and inspector have all dropped the ball here. The inspector has since been back once for the underground inspection, but I’m not sure if he looked into the panel at that time. Final is this week, if the contractor says it’s fine I’ll have to ask the inspector directly.

Definitely do that.
You will need a full list of accomplices for the law suit. lol

 

[cm119]

Definitely do that.
You will need a full list of accomplices for the law suit. lol

Is there any specific code I can reference here? I.e. can conductors at the end of a wire be cut/modified? Do all four poles of a quad ganged breaker need to be filled? Can wire gauge be used that is not specified by the breaker manufacturer? I would assume these are all no-nos, but would like to have evidence in case they try to tell me something like ‘this is fine we do it all the time’.

 

[timselectric]

Is there any specific code I can reference here? I.e. can conductors at the end of a wire be cut/modified? Do all four poles of a quad ganged breaker need to be filled? Can wire gauge be used that is not specified by the breaker manufacturer? I would assume these are all no-nos, but would like to have evidence in case they try to tell me something like ‘this is fine we do it all the time’.

You can not cut strands or reduce the size of a conductor. Unless it's done with a UL rated adapter.
The breaker has an allowable conductor size range that it's UL rated for.
That is a parallel rated breaker. It's current rating is based on the usage of all poles.
If the inspector is their buddy. He or she might let some things slide (hopefully not to this degree).
But if you press the points that I have made above. They won't risk their career on the buddy system.

 

[Quattrohead]

A perfect example of....how to do it 100% wrong.
The sparky, solar company and inspector should all be thrown off the job site and reported.