Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[Shale MacGregor]

Here's an interesting statistic for you:

The police are twice as likely to use deadly force apprehending a suspect, if the suspect is white, compared to if the suspect is black.

If it is police initiated contact

Police initiated contact: 19.2kk whites, 3.4kk blacks

Fatally shot by police. 18.5 per kk interactions whites, 35.9 per kk interactions blacks

Overall whites are slightly more likely per capita to have a police initiated interaction (11.7% vs 11%) but per interaction blacks are 2x more likely to be killed.

So I think you might have gotten it backwards.

 

[A.Justice]

NOPE, that's not true at all.

Yeah, the STATE can press charges if they choose to do so. No victim necessary.

 

[Batvette]

Good point, they only take it from "far out there" blogs and tweets.

And there are story after story, headlines, etc where patients are insisting they tell their doctor what to prescribe them because they heard it from a doctor online. How frustrating is it when you are an expert at your job and someone keeps jogging your elbow trying to make you screw up.

If he saves one person from OD'ing on viagra and having their penis amputated, or hitting the LD50 of only 33 100mg pills, then it is worth it.


Even a broken clock is right twice a day. How many claims can be thrown at the wall before one sticks? The time to believe something is when there is sufficient evidence to believe it, not before.


Err, yeah, that's how it works.


If you can find 1 in 10 posts from BMCL in the previous threads, where he was actually discussing things vs posting blogs and studies without reading them, and then ignoring when the details in his links were pointed out to him, I will be glad to admit I was wrong and he is worth discussing things with.

I wasnt debating the effectiveness of those 2 drugs as much as the idea of certain people declaring something misinformation and shutting down conversation which could be helpful- even if it ends up declaring something as snake oil.

If I told you that evidence exists that zinc lozenges are effective at fighting covid, do you consider that misinformation?

 

[Batvette]

True, get vaccinated.


Should have been vaccinated, would have increased his chances of survival 10 fold

None of that is true.


That may or may not be true, parents give medication to their kids and they don't always like to take it.


If I had a dying child I would seek expert medical help, not listen to a proven liar on the internet.

Is BMcL the sole source of these claims?

 

[Batvette]

NOPE, that's not true at all.

Youre splitting hairs.
Cite an example of someone being convicted of a violent crime which did not happen. Nobody went to the police to report something that actually happened.
You think cops pull over someone for "driving while black" and the guy gets 10 years in jail for a rape that happened somewhere to somebody, we just cant say who where or when?

What would even motivate you to steer the discussion down that road?

Okay they dont always put the victim on the stand.
However the point remains that a violent crime conviction only results when an actual crime occurs. Thus convictions in this catagory are rarely if ever dismissable as due solely to racial profiling by police like a stop for a broken tail light.

 

[Hedges]

If it is police initiated contact

Police initiated contact: 19.2kk whites, 3.4kk blacks

Fatally shot by police. 18.5 per kk interactions whites, 35.9 per kk interactions blacks

Overall whites are slightly more likely per capita to have a police initiated interaction (11.7% vs 11%) but per interaction blacks are 2x more likely to be killed.

So I think you might have gotten it backwards.

Consider arrests not all contacts.

This article puts blacks at 13% of population, 33% of arrests for non-fatal violent crime, 36% for serious non-fatal violent crime.
Whites 60% of population, 46% of arrests for non-fatal violent crime, 39% serious non-fatal violent crime.

Arrests for those crimes, whites have just above 1/4 the chance of being arrested. Overall, 1/2 the chance of dying at hands of police.

U.S. DOJ Statistics on Race and Ethnicity of Violent Crime Perpetrators | Prison Legal News

Would have to gather data for all arrests to see if same holds true, but this indicates cops are half as likely to use deadly force during arrest if suspect is black, vs. if he is white.

As another poster indicated, using force against a black suspect can be a career-ending, possibly freedom ending, move for an officer.
And I noted that arrest rate for blacks was almost twice incarceration rate, suggesting higher rate of innocent blacks being apprehended. I postulated that behavior of those innocent people could be different from the guilty, therefore resulting in different police response.

I don't doubt things were different in years past, and in the deep south.
But the overall statistics I see today paint a picture quite different from what activists are saying.
If we could just figure out how to change the crime demographics, it would have a huge impact on the nation, the justice system, and race relations.

 

[Batvette]

Translation: The riots and media coverage is having a positive effect.

Did I get that right?

LOL thats bizarre. Police hesitant to do their jobs effectively and protect the public based upon the race of the suspect is positive?

Well that confirms what I often think might be the agenda of some activists. They think blacks should be be given a free pass on crime.

This is also the result of sanctuary cities. Police wont pull over hispanics suspected of DUI and other driving infractions because if they dont have a license the law says their vehicle must be impounded. Their supervisors are under orders by elected politicians to take it easy on illegals.
But the municipality still must make revenues, the result is discriminatory enforcement against whites. You will get hammered while Pedro gets a free pass.

 

[MurphyGuy]

In some cases, absolutely. In other cases, hesitation can cost a life.

I'm a felon, you don't have to convince me that law enforcement isn't your friend. I've personally seen police, judges, prosecutors, and attorneys, lie under oath. I always compare the legal system to a rooster; both of them will happily fu*k anybody they see.

I have some experience with cops.

When I was in my early 20's ( a long time ago in a galaxy far away), I had already owned my own home.. a condo. I was single and making very good money as the vice pres of a 200 employee company. I lived in an upscale area of subdivisions at the start of the McMansion movement.

Met a girl at a gas station.. I was a pickup god back then. She was a psychopath, but smoking hot and a goddess in the sack so I kept her around. (I said I was 20 something right? LOL) I wasn't so wise back then.

Anyhow, after two months of dating, one week I got sick.. 104 fever and an ear infection causing me to be dizzy. I could barely stand up for 5 days so hadn't called her and was ignoring my phone. (still had the corded phone back then).
So she comes to my house and starts screaming at me while I'm sitting in my lazyboy chair dizzy and about to puke. I was too sick to care.. which drove her crazy and she threw something at me, hit the brass lamp, knocked it into the wall, and put a big gash in it. She then walked back out to her car so I mustered the strength to get up and lock the door behind her. This threw her into a rage.. screaming and kicking the door.

She calls the cops because she wanted back in to collect a paper bag of clothes. Cops knock on my door, she's on the sidewalk crying and hysterical.

I answered the door by opening a small window in the side bedroom. Told cops she could come back next day when she's calmed. Cops insisted I let them in.. I denied their request and again said she could come back the next day when she's calm. Cops kept insisting.. I finally broke and said "Look buddy, unless you have a warrant or you want to break the door down, you're not coming in here, I'm sick, I have a 104 degree fever, and I don't want anyone in here right now"

Their reply was to reach into the window, grab my shirt, and drag me out, cuff me, and take me to jail. Had I not been dizzy or sick, that would have never worked..

The cops claimed I resisted arrest, struck them, struck her, and they arrested me for a bunch of made up charges that were totally bogus. Among them were assault and battery, domestic violence, assaulting a police officer, resisting, threats, disorderly conduct, etc.

I was fortunate for two reasons.. 1) I made good money which afforded me some toys and privileges 2) That good income allowed me to purchase a Sony CCTV camera that I kept hooked to a VCR recorder at all times (the old coax type). Back then, those cameras were $400. It was mounted in the bedroom (office) looking out the front bay window at my vehicle and motorcycle... and it recorded the entire event.

The judge watched the tape and threw out all charges.. as well as expressed some choice words for the two police officers involved. I then sued the cops and won a substantial settlement. NOTE: The girl never claimed I hit her, touched her, or threatened her in any way. She just wanted her paper grocery bag of clothes and thought the cops could help her with that.

There are no good cops.. when a good cop joins the force, the bad cops push them out or to a desk job. I'm a white guy, clean cut, short hair, no tattoos, no ear rings, educated, well spoken, and relatively very polite to any stranger I meet, cop, bum, or waitress.. doesn't matter..

If cops will treat me that way, I can only imagine how they'd treat a black guy....

 

[Batvette]

In some cases, absolutely. In other cases, hesitation can cost a life.

I'm a felon, you don't have to convince me that law enforcement isn't your friend. I've personally seen police, judges, prosecutors, and attorneys, lie under oath. I always compare the legal system to a rooster; both of them will happily fu*k anybody they see.

I think a lot of cops justify false arrests etc with the rationale if theyre wrong the system will correct it.
Not if the prosecution and PD are equally corrupt or inept.

 

[MurphyGuy]

LOL thats bizarre. Police hesitant to do their jobs effectively and protect the public based upon the race of the suspect is positive?

Their job is to enforce the law. Can you show me any evidence that their hesitation to shoot first and make excuses later has affected their ability to enforce the law?
I think we both know you can't do that.

Well that confirms what I often think might be the agenda of some activists. They think blacks should be be given a free pass on crime.

And your response is typical of extremists who swing from one radical side to the other...

This is also the result of sanctuary cities. Police wont pull over hispanics suspected of DUI and other driving infractions because if they dont have a license the law says their vehicle must be impounded. Their supervisors are under orders by elected politicians to take it easy on illegals.

I don't agree with sanctuary city policies, but I also don't agree with racial profiling.. and since they couldn't get them to stop the racial profiling, they tried something different. I don't agree with it, but I understand it...

But the municipality still must make revenues, the result is discriminatory enforcement against whites. You will get hammered while Pedro gets a free pass.

LOL.. you just made yourself look stupid. Why don't you read what you just said and carefully consider the ramifications of your statement.

Damn.. that's rich. While it does happen, its not often when I see people kill their own argument via their own statements, and make themselves look like the white supremacist policies they're trying to discredit.

 

[Batvette]

I have some experience with cops.

When I was in my early 20's ( a long time ago in a galaxy far away), I had already owned my own home.. a condo. I was single and making very good money as the vice pres of a 200 employee company. I lived in an upscale area of subdivisions at the start of the McMansion movement.

Met a girl at a gas station.. I was a pickup god back then. She was a psychopath, but smoking hot and a goddess in the sack so I kept her around. (I said I was 20 something right? LOL) I wasn't so wise back then.

Anyhow, after two months of dating, one week I got sick.. 104 fever and an ear infection causing me to be dizzy. I could barely stand up for 5 days so hadn't called her and was ignoring my phone. (still had the corded phone back then).
So she comes to my house and starts screaming at me while I'm sitting in my lazyboy chair dizzy and about to puke. I was too sick to care.. which drove her crazy and she threw something at me, hit the brass lamp, knocked it into the wall, and put a big gash in it. She then walked back out to her car so I mustered the strength to get up and lock the door behind her. This threw her into a rage.. screaming and kicking the door.

She calls the cops because she wanted back in to collect a paper bag of clothes. Cops knock on my door, she's on the sidewalk crying and hysterical.

I answered the door by opening a small window in the side bedroom. Told cops she could come back next day when she's calmed. Cops insisted I let them in.. I denied their request and again said she could come back the next day when she's calm. Cops kept insisting.. I finally broke and said "Look buddy, unless you have a warrant or you want to break the door down, you're not coming in here, I'm sick, I have a 104 degree fever, and I don't want anyone in here right now"

Their reply was to reach into the window, grab my shirt, and drag me out, cuff me, and take me to jail. Had I not been dizzy or sick, that would have never worked..

The cops claimed I resisted arrest, struck them, struck her, and they arrested me for a bunch of made up charges that were totally bogus. Among them were assault and battery, domestic violence, assaulting a police officer, resisting, threats, disorderly conduct, etc.

I was fortunate for two reasons.. 1) I made good money which afforded me some toys and privileges 2) That good income allowed me to purchase a Sony CCTV camera that I kept hooked to a VCR recorder at all times (the old coax type). Back then, those cameras were $400. It was mounted in the bedroom (office) looking out the front bay window at my vehicle and motorcycle... and it recorded the entire event.

The judge watched the tape and threw out all charges.. as well as expressed some choice words for the two police officers involved. I then sued the cops and won a substantial settlement. NOTE: The girl never claimed I hit her, touched her, or threatened her in any way. She just wanted her paper grocery bag of clothes and thought the cops could help her with that.

There are no good cops.. when a good cop joins the force, the bad cops push them out or to a desk job. I'm a white guy, clean cut, short hair, no tattoos, no ear rings, educated, well spoken, and relatively very polite to any stranger I meet, cop, bum, or waitress.. doesn't matter..

If cops will treat me that way, I can only imagine how they'd treat a black guy....

How about your experience merely proves cop misbehavior is colorblind?

"Had I not been dizzy or sick, that would have never worked..."

Had you been black youd have been swinging back, gone for their gun, and been shot.

 

[brb58]

Now someone lacking elementary school English composition skills disagrees with me. Whoopie!
Back on topic Bradley (or whatever his real name is, as if it matters) claims to be a republican who so disliked Donald Trump that he voted for Biden/Harris even though their disastrous policies were well stated during the campaign. Like Harris claiming she would stop arresting people at the border and welcome them with open arms instead. Biden inviting them to come here. Promising to end the use of fossil fuels then passing executive orders his first week that lead to fuel prices soaring a dollar a gallon which resulted in double digit inflation across the board. Leaving hundreds of Americans behind in Afghanistan, bowing to Taliban orders in typical democrat cut and run command of the military. No republican I know would ever support such irresponsible policies, that makes him completely stupid or a liar. All the dislike in the world for a candidates personality does not rationalize changing your lifelong ideologies and supporting the other side. So of course he keeps changing the subject.
You can say what the hell you want about me but you wont see me posting lies to troll people on the internet.

LOL...so my phone auto completed! What a moron..

So what does DEW stand for and why were people following you? What made you think people were following you? You have a history of delusional behavior?

BTW...fuel prices and prices rising in general is a world wide issue and not just due to the US but you are too stupid to realize that. Funny how the party of supply and demand suddenly forgot how that works.

So glad to be out of Afghanistan. Of course Trump negotiating with the Taliban and releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners before he lost the election didn't make getting out very easy.

 

[MurphyGuy]

How about your experience merely proves cop misbehavior is colorblind?

Nope, the only thing one can surmise from my experience is that cops have a tyrannical attitude based on their authority status.

The fact is, when cops are color blind, forced upon them by the darkness of night, they don't pull blacks over in their vehicles as often.. After dark, the rate of vehicle stops (white vs black drivers) is equal.

"Had I not been dizzy or sick, that would have never worked..."

Had you been black youd have been swinging back, gone for their gun, and been shot.

Yup, that's what they would have put in their police report.. Good thing I had a camera and good thing I was white..

 

[Batvette]

Their job is to enforce the law. Can you show me any evidence that their hesitation to shoot first and make excuses later has affected their ability to enforce the law?
I think we both know you can't do that.

And your response is typical of extremists who swing from one radical side to the other...

I don't agree with sanctuary city policies, but I also don't agree with racial profiling.. and since they couldn't get them to stop the racial profiling, they tried something different. I don't agree with it, but I understand it...

LOL.. you just made yourself look stupid. Why don't you read what you just said and carefully consider the ramifications of your statement.

Damn.. that's rich. While it does happen, its not often when I see people kill their own argument via their own statements, and make themselves look like the white supremacist policies they're trying to discredit.

Why cant you post without resorting to ad hominem attacks? Almost none of your statements address the topical points and you seem content if you can merely label people racists or white supremists.
You think that makes you superior but youre pretty stupid if you think readers come here to talk about me. All youre displaying is complete inability to form competant rebuttals.

Definition from Wiki:

Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

In one case you actually suggest you agree with me then go to ad hominem because your topical argument is unsupportable.
Please dont continue to do this because we also are not here to discuss your debate skills or apparent lack thereof.

 

[Batvette]

LOL...so my phone auto completed! What a moron..

So what does DEW stand for and why were people following you? What made you think people were following you? You have a history of delusional behavior?

BTW...fuel prices and prices rising in general is a world wide issue and not just due to the US but you are too stupid to realize that. Funny how the party of supply and demand suddenly forgot how that works.

So glad to be out of Afghanistan. Of course Trump negotiating with the Taliban and releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners before he lost the election didn't make getting out very easy.

You mean Biden ending all new oil leases and shutting down the pipeline, as well as enacting sweeping new policies with the intent of making petroleum extraction more difficult and costly, had no effect on gas prices?
Who is the moron here? Dont you realize when Biden restricts US petroleum production that allowed OPEC to raise prices at will?
Youve provided an argument of obfuscation..
I cite Bidens policies your position is that the issue is far too big and complex for him to affect.

As for directed energy weapons Im not here to educate you but in an hour I could make one from an appliance in your kitchen.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Why cant you post without resorting to ad hominem attacks? Almost none of your statements address the topical points and you seem content if you can merely label people racists or white supremists.
You think that makes you superior but youre pretty stupid if you think readers come here to talk about me. All youre displaying is complete inability to form competant rebuttals.

Definition from Wiki:

Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

In one case you actually suggest you agree with me then go to ad hominem because your topical argument is unsupportable.
Please dont continue to do this because we also are not here to discuss your debate skills or apparent lack thereof.

I attacked your statements.

Another attribute common with right wing extremists.. anytime someone makes them look foolish, they lash out with the whole "I'm a victim" mentality thing..

I don't have a snowflake mode.. If you can't handle having your silly statements called out, then you shouldn't make them.

 

[Batvette]

Nope, the only thing one can surmise from my experience is that cops have a tyrannical attitude based on their authority status.

The fact is, when cops are color blind, forced upon them by the darkness of night, they don't pull blacks over in their vehicles as often.. After dark, the rate of vehicle stops (white vs black drivers) is equal.


Yup, that's what they would have put in their police report.. Good thing I had a camera and good thing I was white..

Why would cops go around shooting people, presumably blacks, for no good reason?

"cops have a tyrannical attitude based on their authority status."

I dont disagree. So why are you injecting race into this? Couldnt the profiling simply be because blacks commit more crimes (fact) and their treatment because they resist more often?

 

[MurphyGuy]

You mean Biden ending all new oil leases and shutting down the pipeline, as well as enacting sweeping new policies with the intent of making petroleum extraction more difficult and costly, had no effect on gas prices?

It probably did have some effect.. good.. it will entice people to purchase electric vehicles and drive less.

Who is the moron here? Dont you realize when Biden restricts US petroleum production that allowed OPEC to raise prices at will?

Donald Trump imposed sanctions on Venezuela, which also allowed OPEC to do what they want. NOTE: Venezuela has more oil than Saudi Arabia...

Youve provided an argument of obfuscation..
I cite Bidens policies your position is that the issue is far too big and complex for him to affect.

As for directed energy weapons Im not here to educate you but in an hour I could make one from an appliance in your kitchen.

You're so full of crap its not even funny.. Unless you want to count the magnetron tube inside a microwave as a directed energy device, (which would be ridiculously comical by any measure), then you're full of manure.

Typical extremist rhetoric.. Turning some small technicality into a statement of relative fact.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Why would cops go around shooting people, presumably blacks, for no good reason?

I don't know.. why would you shoot an unarmed person?

"cops have a tyrannical attitude based on their authority status."

I dont disagree. So why are you injecting race into this? Couldnt the profiling simply be because blacks commit more crimes (fact) and their treatment because they resist more often?

Not a fact.. but such propaganda is pushed by white extremists all the time.

 

[Johnson]

Is BMcL the sole source of these claims?

I have no idea which claims you are referring to.