Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Koldsimer]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to pop in here. @Koldsimer messaged me on Thursday, we were actually out on Thursday and Friday at our offices due to an ice storm. I'm working on this now. I am (immediately after finishing this post) heading to the back warehouse to set up a Schneider XW Pro with our LifePower4 batteries to see what's going on. This is near the top of my priority list to get fixed today. Koldsimer might have messaged someone else weeks ago but I just got my first message from him on Thursday, and we have only been back in the office for a day. For some reason I wasn't getting notified about updates on this post so I didn't realize we had 15 new pages of replies on here. I'm working on finding out what is going on. Thanks everyone!

Edit: I'd just like to make everyone aware that we are working hard on finding solutions to this and many other problems. We are not a huge company with 100's of tech support people and bench techs. We are growing rapidly and trying to fix all these problems as quickly as we can. We are making a concerted effort to solve these issues for everyone. I don't know if Koldsimer has been to our office in person or not but we are working everyday at 1000%+ when it comes to solving these problems. We specifically bought multiple Schneider inverters for testing, and I believe we were able to operate them as long as we had 2 batteries connected (A fact I am verifying in 10 minutes). I will update this thread with my results.

I just forwarded you the dm i sent you on JAN 17th about this issue- and other issues.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I just forwarded you the dm i sent you on JAN 17th about this issue- and other issues.

The thread you sent to me on Jan 17th was regarding battery chargers (which we partially refunded and you stated you were satisfied with that), and the battery rack. Although you mentioned this issue, you also said you were communicating with others about it.

Anyways, I am working to fix this now that it’s on my docket. I’m writing this from the tech bench, and it just so happens that the 6848 was just delivered - this weekend - for us to test.

We had tested another model we had on hand (Schneider XW+ 5548) that we were able to start with no issues. I will continue to update this thread as more info is available.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

nyways, I am working to fix this now that it’s on my docket. I’m writing this from the tech bench, and it just so happens that the 6848 was just delivered - this weekend - for us to test.

Richard get some help lifting that XW Pro 6848.. It's a "lotta" inverter....

 

[MrM1]

For some reason I wasn't getting notified about updates on this post so I didn't realize we had 15 new pages of replies on here. I'm working on finding out what is going on. Thanks everyone!

THE NOTIFICATION BELL IS LIMITED
I have found the forum software seems to limit what "New Posts" it shows and the notifications the forum software gives when looking at the Notification Bell on the menu bar. If you want to REALLY stay up-to-date you need to look at your Watched Threads either in the Cheese Burger (3 line) menu on your phone or under "Forums" on a pc. Go to Forums>watched>watched threads and you will see several other new posts to threads you have either watched or posted in ... that DO NOT show up under the notifications bell. It really is easy to miss stuff on the forum. I understand that.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I have found the forum software seems to limit what "new posts" it shows and the notifications the forum software gives when looking at the Notification Bell on the menu bar. If you want to REALLY stay up-to-date you need to look at your Watched Threads either in the Cheese Burger (3 line) menu on your phone or under "Forums" on a pc. Go to Forums>watched>watched threads and you will see several other new posts to threads you have either watched or posted in ... that DO NOT show up under the notifications bell. I really is easy to miss stuff on the forum. I understand that.

Got it. That explains a lot.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Richard get some help lifting that XW Pro 6848.. It's a "lotta" inverter....

Didn’t you hear? I’m 215lbs of pure muscle.

 

[MrM1]

Didn’t you hear? I’m 215lbs of pure muscle.

Now there's a visual I won't be able to unsee. Ewwww.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Update: So I just personally went out to our back warehouse and did many tests with the EG4LL's and with the Lifepower4's. I'll post a few quick videos below and a text explanation.
For testing purposes, we used the Schneider straight out of the box with no changes to any of the settings. For the batteries, we also verified that they were using the default settings for the firmware as well as any modifiable settings such as timings and voltage or current. Essentially, these are the settings you would have for BOTH the inverter and batteries straight out of the box. For our tests, we used 1, 2, and 3 batteries in succession and had them set up using the cabinets we offer and the included busbar. Again - there have been no external modifications. In both tests, you will see that we have 6 batteries in the cabinets - however during testing we only had 1, 2, and 3 turned on at a time. The cabinets we have in our shop currently are modified 3 battery cabinets, and the bottom 3 batteries were not connected to the top 3 in any way.

Test Subject 1 - EG4LL batteries (these were already in place and ready to go, so I did them first)
Test Parameters - Using 1, 2, and 3 batteries, attempt to power on the inverter. Attempt to measure load of 1 single 1500w Space Heater. Attempt to operate electric dryer while space heater is on. Attempt to operate circular saw while space heater and dryer are operating. Measure peak DC current, and report.
Test Results - 1 battery: Upon starting 1 battery, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 1 battery failed to operate both battery and space heater.
2 batteries: Upon starting 2 batteries, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 2 batteries successfully allowed operation of space heater and dryer. Attempt to operate circular saw. Failed to operate circular saw, inverter tripped and full load was lost. After a few moments, the Schneider restarted and operated the space heater again and dryer was able to be started again.
3 batteries: Upon starting 3 batteries, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds, a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 2 batteries successfully allowed operation of space heater and dryer. Attempt to operate circular saw. Successfully started and maintained circular saw operation for 10+seconds.

Test Subject 2 - LifePower4 batteries
Test Parameters - Using 1, 2, and 3 batteries, attempt to power on the inverter. Attempt to measure load of 1 single 1500w Space Heater. Attempt to operate electric dryer while space heater is on. Attempt to operate circular saw while space heater and dryer are operating. Measure peak DC current, and report.
Test Results - 1 battery: Upon starting 1 battery, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 1 battery failed to operate both battery and space heater.
2 batteries: Upon starting 2 batteries, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 2 batteries successfully allowed operation of space heater and dryer. Attempt to operate circular saw. Failed to operate circular saw, inverter tripped and full load was lost. After a few moments, the Schneider restarted and operated the space heater again and dryer was able to be started again.
3 batteries: Upon starting 3 batteries, the Schneider inverter began to power on normally. After several seconds, a humming noise indicated it was fully operating and ready to invert. Turn on space heater. Successfully operated space heater. Turn on dryer. 2 batteries successfully allowed operation of space heater and dryer. Attempt to operate circular saw. Successfully started and maintained circular saw operation for 10+seconds.

For your consideration, I have included video evidence showing our quick set up. Please excuse the background noise. Also, in the final video, during the video we attempted to turn on the circular saw before the 3rd battery was fully started. We were able to operate the saw using only 3 batteries. Linked to youtube because the files are too large to attach here.

At this point we are going to have an internal discussion to see what our next steps will be for testing and to fix these issues on an internal level. I invite anyone who hasn't already messaged me that is experiencing issues with this set up to please MESSAGE ME DIRECTLY with contact information so I can solve this issue for you in one way or another.

Youtube Links:
Lifepower4:

EG4LL:

AGAIN - IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING THIS ISSUE, MESSAGE ME DIRECTLY SO I CAN TRY AND FIND OUT WHAT EXACTLY IS CAUSING THIS ISSUE!
EDIT: If there is something we are doing wrong to test this, please also let me know so I can FIX IT and retest.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

So you had NO issues powering up the XW Pro from a single EG4 Lifepower4?

I remember someone at Signature Solar mentioning that there was some BMS parameter changes on the batch that recently shipped to @Koldsimer. Is it possible your EG4 LifePower4 TEST batteries have different BMS parameters than the ones received by @Koldsimer??? Specifically the Pre-charge timer is suspect in his issue.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

So you had NO issues powering up the XW Pro from the EG4 Lifepower4, it seems. I remember someone at Signature Solar mentioning that there was some BMS parameter changes on the batch that recently shipped to @Koldsimer. Is it possible your EG4 LifePower4 batteries have different BMS parameters than the ones received by @Koldsimer??? Specifically the Pre-charge timer is suspect in his issue.

I am going to verify if the precharge parameters are different, but based on the timeframe of this issue being brought to our attention, there would not have been any changes to this. In fact, these batteries were installed at my tech bench the week after this thread begun, and there weren't any shipments in the middle. For our purposes, I am going to verify that information.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

So you had NO issues powering up the XW Pro from a single EG4 Lifepower4?

I remember someone at Signature Solar mentioning that there was some BMS parameter changes on the batch that recently shipped to @Koldsimer. Is it possible your EG4 LifePower4 TEST batteries have different BMS parameters than the ones received by @Koldsimer??? Specifically the Pre-charge timer is suspect in his issue.

I'd also like to mention that there 100% were BMS parameter changes made from batteries (this is actually quite common from a firmware standpoint) but that these batteries are running with the extended pre charge timer. In fact - in another test with the other schneider model, we intentionally increased and decreased that timer (among dozens of other settings) to try and replicate the issue. We were not able to duplicate the issue. We were holding out until we got the 6848 specifically (as that is the model in question) and after receiving it this weekend and testing, are still unable to duplicate.

As far as the comment from tech support regarding that, it was a theory that we weren't able to test until the 6848 arrived. At this point it does not appear to affect the start up of the schneider. That theory I believe was posted by James, but we hadn't had the 6848 to test until this weekend. It appears that it's not the culprit.

 

[Koldsimer]

We have a schneider Conext 48v on the way to our bench, we did increase the delay as a precaution in the last update, we have a successful history of using the Conext 6848 with the GYLL and EGYLL, this will be resolved.

So you had NO issues powering up the XW Pro from a single EG4 Lifepower4?

I remember someone at Signature Solar mentioning that there was some BMS parameter changes on the batch that recently shipped to @Koldsimer. Is it possible your EG4 LifePower4 TEST batteries have different BMS parameters than the ones received by @Koldsimer??? Specifically the Pre-charge timer is suspect in his issue.

Yeah, it was signature solar, in this thread.

 

[Koldsimer]

Guys, we tried to extend the pre charge capacity and apparently took it too far for the xw pro. the "use a resistor" was a stab at nothing by tech support because this is out of their depth as a problem in general

right here

 

[Mr-Sandman]

@Koldsimer do you have laptop and can you load the software and plug into the batteries to view the BMS?
@signaturesolarrichard could tell you what setting to VERIFY is set in your batteries? I assume the pre-charge timer is programmable and would show up in the BMS settings or is it not in there?

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Guys, we tried to extend the pre charge capacity and apparently took it too far for the xw pro. the "use a resistor" was a stab at nothing by tech support because this is out of their depth as a problem in general

right here

Koldsimer, I'm 100% working with you on a solution. As I stated above, this was a theory that was proposed, but untested as we didn't have that exact model on our bench to test. I personally went and tested it today, and have attached 2 videos showing it in operation. We are still trying to figure out exactly what the issue is for you, but it appears it is not simply "Battery A doesn't work with Inverter B".

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

@Koldsimer do you have laptop and can you load the software and plug into the batteries to view the BMS?
@signaturesolarrichard could tell you what setting to VERIFY is set in your batteries? I assume the pre-charge timer is programmable and would show up in the BMS settings or is it not in there?

Sure thing, let me go connect it now and I'll post the default setting.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

@Koldsimer do you have laptop and can you load the software and plug into the batteries to view the BMS?
@signaturesolarrichard could tell you what setting to VERIFY is set in your batteries? I assume the pre-charge timer is programmable and would show up in the BMS settings or is it not in there?

Setting is "UV_OFF_Time" and by default is 4000ms.

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Just curious but what is the default on the EG4LL BMS for this?
Do the EG4LL and Lifepower4 share the same BMS "other than one has an LCD screen of course" or are they different internally?
I ask because I do not have any issues with my EG4 LL powering my Schneider XW Pro up.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Just curious but what is the default on the EG4LL BMS for this?
Do the EG4LL and Lifepower4 share the same BMS "other than one has an LCD screen of course" or are they different internally?
I ask because I do not have any issues with my EG4 LL powering my Schneider XW Pro up.

Double checking now. I know they are different boards internally, but I believe all the actual settings are nearly identical when comparing one to the other. We also had no issues powering the Schneider up with the EG4 LL's, but we didn't have any issues with the LifePower4's either. I tried using multiple configurations with a total of 6 batteries used for both battery systems, and had no issues at any point in at least starting the inverter. We have gotten very few reports of this issue outside of the ones presented here (2 total I believe) so that leads me to believe that either there is a setting on the Schneider that needs to be addressed, that one of the batteries the customer is trying is actually the issue, or there is some external source of the issue. Believe me, if I duplicated the issue even once in some configuration this would be a different conversation. Because I successfully demonstrated the operation using both batteries, I can state that the Schneider XW Pro 6848 is 100% compatible at a "BATTERY A works with INVERTER B" level. As soon as we get into specific builds and systems put together by an end user, there are tons of other possibilities. As a DIY distributor, we do our best to get into these problems and fix them (As I hope I am demonstrating in my frequent interactions on the forum), but if it's working for 99% of people, that likely means there is something else causing the problem that 1% of the time. I'd love to have customers fly me out and put me up in hotels all week (my 1 month old and wife at home might not like that), but it's just not feasible. So, I do everything I can to solve the issue remotely. I'm totally open to hearing any additional testing I can do or remote troubleshooting options we haven't tried to fix this problem for specific users.

 

[Koldsimer]

Here's video of what is happening in my situation. I had to break the video into two parts to get it to download but there's plenty of overlap.
Again, it fires right up with flooded lead acid batteries and even Discover Lithium batteries no problem. That leads me to believe it's something with the lifepower batteries.