Coming Energy Prices …..

[Ozark Tinkering]

I did not...made too much money on my 2019 taxes even though I was laid off in June 2020 as part of the pandemic.

But I don't know you?

 

[BillSF]

So the world is starving and you think you’ll hold on to all those potatoes. Read a few history books

Nothing wrong with good husbandry and you benefit from having land resources. Many don’t have such benefits. So if widespread hunger appears , it’s only right that you would be forced to share your resources. Most responsible governments agree with this perspective. Think of countries on severe war footing , concepts like private land , private resources all get commandeered etc. it’s a collective societal response

Widespread hunger to the degree you're talking about is not likely to affect the United States other than as increased cost for food. Industrialized nations will take what they lack by force from the developing world...sad but true. 1000 lbs of potatoes is not enough to share. That feeds my family for 2 or 3 months (if it is the sole source of calories) or a mob for a day or three. My neighbors and even the entire county I live in is big on self-sufficiency, so the mob would have to be coming from the big cities.

I understand what you're saying about mobs. I also agree that the wealthy elite (10s or 100s of millions or more in wealth) in the US and elsewhere have forgotten that you CAN steal too much from society.

I also agree with some of the more conservative posters here that there's always a measure of personal responsibility. There are plenty of people earning 6 figures who are somehow still living paycheck to paycheck due to poor financial decisions / management.

I also don't necessarily hate the "rich" especially those who earned their money through hard work, starting a business, and good financial sense. I was born to teenage parents, raised on welfare until 5 (father finished junior college and got a better job), worked in highschool and college (which I paid for and paid off my own loans) and am now in the 1% or very close to it.....I have an upper class income, but am taxed into the middle class.....These kind of people and myself are not the problems I'm talking about.

It's the corporations (and billionaires) that form monopolies, buy politicians, wring special tax discounts from local governments, form holding companies in tax havens to avoid taxes, etc etc that are the problem.

If my tax rate (state+ Federal + medicare + penalities for earning"too much") for earning an extra $1 is 50%, and I work 40+ hours per week and am on-call 24/7, WHY do billionaires get away paying 15%, 20%, 23% or even 0% (take a loan on their assets and pay zero taxes on 100s of millions / billions)? These people are taking from society and not giving pack.... Amazon's packages are delivered on roads and bridges that are built and maintained by the taxes of us plebes so why is Amazon and Bezos paying no taxes?

 

[BillSF]

But I don't know you?

Lol, true

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Widespread hunger to the degree you're talking about is not likely to affect the United States other than as increased cost for food. Industrialized nations will take what they lack by force from the developing world...sad but true. 1000 lbs of potatoes is not enough to share. That feeds my family for 2 or 3 months (if it is the sole source of calories) or a mob for a day or three. My neighbors and even the entire county I live in is big on self-sufficiency, so the mob would have to be coming from the big cities.

I understand what you're saying about mobs. I also agree that the wealthy elite (10s or 100s of millions or more in wealth) in the US and elsewhere have forgotten that you CAN steal too much from society.

I also agree with some of the more conservative posters here that there's always a measure of personal responsibility. There are plenty of people earning 6 figures who are somehow still living paycheck to paycheck due to poor financial decisions / management.

I also don't necessarily hate the "rich" especially those who earned their money through hard work, starting a business, and good financial sense. I was born to teenage parents, raised on welfare until 5 (father finished junior college and got a better job), worked in highschool and college (which I paid for and paid off my own loans) and am now in the 1% or very close to it.....I have an upper class income, but am taxed into the middle class.....These kind of people and myself are not the problems I'm talking about.

It's the corporations (and billionaires) that form monopolies, buy politicians, wring special tax discounts from local governments, form holding companies in tax havens to avoid taxes, etc etc that are the problem.

If my tax rate (state+ Federal + medicare + penalities for earning"too much") for earning an extra $1 is 50%, and I work 40+ hours per week and am on-call 24/7, WHY do billionaires get away paying 15%, 20%, 23% or even 0% (take a loan on their assets and pay zero taxes on 100s of millions / billions)? These people are taking from society and not giving pack.... Amazon's packages are delivered on roads and bridges that are built and maintained by the taxes of us plebes so why is Amazon and Bezos paying no taxes?

I agree the U.S. in particular and North America in general will fair much better than the rest of the world. We have been honing certain skills that are going to be useful and tasty. America is blessed with soil no few other countries enjoy. Plant them spuds!

 

[BillSF]

I saw the exact same one this morning and just shook my head..

Total failure of today’s education system.

Not only this but cannot read an analog watch or clock
Nor
Read Cursive writing.

What happens when you can’t read history?

Not denying that education has gotten ridiculous (common core seems like it is teaching kids weird ways to solve math problems instead of ways that can be remembered FOREVER). However these types of videos only keep the clips of the stupid people. They don't show the majority who answered the question correctly......Media implying that poorly educated / stupid people are funny instead of being a failure of society is another issue.

 

[BillSF]

Of course, I have wonderful ideas.

I just wish there were some way of actually getting anything done, preferably without burning everything to the ground first. The powers that be are very good at playing us against one another, and hostilities are high. The whole situation reminds me of this consulting quote..

Oracle's company moto I think

 

[BillSF]

I

That's a lot of potatoes! That was my first time at potatoes too and am still learning the pros and cons between the determinate and indeterminate varieties. The Yukons are determinate and the Huckleberry Golds are indeterminate. It probably will matter more to you which you choose since you are planting in the ground, but probably have a better chance of a larger yield than I got from my 7gallon smartpots, too, for obvious reasons.
I'd like to save seed as everything we grow we keep seed from, but don't have a root cellar to keep them viable until the next season.
For me the potatoes were great to get the season started and were delicious, but my salsa garden is my main focus and it's still going with the pablano and jalapeno peppers and roma tomatoes both working on their second set while the cilantro got cut for the 2nd time today and looks like we'll get a 3rd cutting before the frost.

I'm currently growing in 100 gallon grow bags with a simple metal fence wrapped around them to discourage the deer....some hardware cloth (temporary usage, need actual bird netting) over immature blueberry plants to keep birds out.

Clay soil. Need to plant some Comfrey to break up the soil and generate more compost and fence in more area to keep deer out.

My neighbor will teach me to use his excavator and borrow it for the cost of gas...So I'll dig a couple swales across my hillside to accumulate rain + leaf drop. My neighbor on the other side has more deciduous trees.... Going to see if he'll let me rake up his leaves and dump them in the swale to get things started. Burned a bunch of branches and trees last spring (fire control) so I have a bunch of charcoal and ash (some already mixed into my grow bags)

I'm not planning on growing 25k to 35k pounds of potatoes, I just meant that it doesn't take that much land to grow 1000 pounds of potatoes.... anyone on a 1/6 acre lot in a city could probably do that if they wanted.


I'm going to try for a simple root cellar this year: bury 1 or 2 55 gallon food grade containers in the ground, cut some holes in the lid, cover with hardware cloth and a lid (or maybe just a square of cinder blocks and a piece of plywood.

Probably won't put too much potatoes/carrots in there until I see how that does. If it works, I'll put off making an actual root cellar for longer....if anyone has tips on a simple and cheap root cellar idea, let me know.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

When we had our solar installed in 2019 I also had a dozen or so oak and hickory trees removed that were block the view. Anything under 6" dia. I had chipped. I ended with a 10 ton pile next to my barn. It was ready to use in my composting op by last March. It took awhile to figure it out but I'm making some good soil now.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

100 gallon bags are a great idea. I used 7s just to get acquainted

 

[Goboatingnow]

I agree the U.S. in particular and North America in general will fair much better than the rest of the world. We have been honing certain skills that are going to be useful and tasty. America is blessed with soil no few other countries enjoy. Plant them spuds!

Not quite so fast. Don’t swallow your own propaganda. The US has huge urban societies that have no access to land.

I’m alright though as you see, top of the list. ( and a long history with potatoes )

Food security index

 

[Goboatingnow]

Not denying that education has gotten ridiculous (common core seems like it is teaching kids weird ways to solve math problems instead of ways that can be remembered FOREVER). However these types of videos only keep the clips of the stupid people. They don't show the majority who answered the question correctly......Media implying that poorly educated / stupid people are funny instead of being a failure of society is another issue.

Media always seeks the extreme especially social media. This excerbates a edge case into seeming central issues. Nothing could typically be further from the truth.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Not quite so fast. Don’t swallow your own propaganda. The US has huge urban societies that have no access to land.

I’m alright though as you see, top of the list. ( and a long history with potatoes )

Food security index

We'll be okay. We have a great distribution system and most of our people don't want land. We mechanized and automated our farming practices here. It's not called farming anymore it agribusinesses. The rest of us do it as a hobby and pretend we're being self sufficient.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

We'll be okay. We have a great distribution system and most of our people don't want land. We mechanized and automated our farming practices here. It's not called farming anymore it agribusinesses. The rest of us do it as a hobby and pretend we're being self sufficient.

Amber waves of grain. No chaff.

 

[Goboatingnow]

We'll be okay. We have a great distribution system and most of our people don't want land. We mechanized and automated our farming practices here. It's not called farming anymore it agribusinesses. The rest of us do it as a hobby and pretend we're being self sufficient.

The food security index suggests the US would be probably be ok. But not perfect. Most of the developed world has similar mechanisation and yes “agri business “

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

The food security index suggests the US would be probably be ok. But not perfect. Most of the developed world has similar mechanisation and yes “agri business “

Well I'm guessing we're all about to find out. The Ukraine war will speed the process up and famine will spread to vulnerable nations that depend on lesser quality grains from the world's breadbasket. I don't believe they were able to get their crops out of the fields this season so next season is kaput as well. Fertilizer is hard to get. China is pretty screwed.
If they manage to cause a meltdown at Europe's largest nuke facility it'll be over for 1000 years in that part of the world. I saw today that Ukraine has those Russians on the run in Donetsk and Putin could be hearing Swan Lake pretty soon. I hope he doesn't resort tactical nukes. Then we'll all be in it.
Until then though, we're more than okay. We just do a lot of whining and bitching because we want what we want and well what else are you gonna do when you have everything? I saw Elon was whining that Twitter is slowing his tweets down and I guess that'll be a basis for another legal action. Those are the problems that matter here!
If we did have a bad harvest most of us have enough around the waistline to get us through another season.
But I save seeds anyway. The romas we grew this year are the size of tennis balls and only had about a dozen seeds each. Those are seeds worth the effort!

 

[MurphyGuy]

I pay taxes. Try again boy.

They don’t need to go to people sitting on their asses doing nothing for themselves or the country.

Or

Ukraine who isnt a member of NATO of even an ally. $8 Billion + that could have rebuilt our entire infrastructure..

You think $8 Billion could rebuild our entire infrastructure? ROFLMAO. $8 billion barely pays for the consultants to tell you how much it will cost.
We're not helping Ukraine because they're an ally or part of NATO genius, we're defending against Putin starting up the USSR again.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

@Goboatingnow that nuke has 6 units totaling 5700MW. That dwarfs anything we've got here.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I pay taxes. Try again boy.

Hey joboy, have a little identity issue? I take it you gave up that consulting gig?

 

[BillSF]

Not quite so fast. Don’t swallow your own propaganda. The US has huge urban societies that have no access to land.

I’m alright though as you see, top of the list. ( and a long history with potatoes )

Food security index

A 100 gallon grow bag is approximately 3 ft in diameter. I'm hoping I'll get 40 to 60 lbs of potatoes out of this (first time so don't know).

Grow bags are relatively cheap. Even if not affordable for some, I also threw 6 or 7 chunks of seed potatoes into a small Amazon box and filled it to the edge with soil with flaps hanging down. When the plants got tall enough, I taped the sides up and added more soil.

Any of these options can fit on a balcony or patio in one size or another.

Yes, some people live in apartments with no extra space at all. There are still some things you can grow on a window sill or near a window, or even mushrooms that only need light to fruit, not to spread throughout a medium.

You can get free boxes from most grocery or big box stores or just swing by the recycling area near an apartments mail area. If you can't afford dirt, you can get more boxes, leaves, twigs, coffee grounds, and food scraps out of compost bins and in 4 to 6 months you'll have free soil.

People are too lazy and stupid wasting their lives on useless crap (their phones/apps, TV, "reality" TV, buying crap quality clothing and products they don't need, etc). Maybe they should learn to connect with nature and each other more and the world wouldn't have half the problems it has. I have very limited interest in bailing these people out...only slightly more interest than the zero I had for bailing out the banks in 2008/2009. When I say I want "a living wage", it's for people that actually work hard enough.

As I've said earlier though, I'm in support of making sure people aren't hungry for this very reason). You're right about me and others not being able to stop a mob. So if they were to come, I'd let them take all my food....Then I'd find them in their individual homes, without the protection of the mob, and my family and I'll be eating meat every night. Viciousness begets viciousness and I won't be turning any cheeks and I won't be starving if there's sheep available.... I'll see your hypothetical mob and raise you.

I very much do not want society to get to this point, so hopefully our politicians will stop kissing the asses of the corporations and do what's best for the American people.

As a counter to your point, I think the pandemic taught people to "hoard" more, so hopefully most people actually have enough nonperishables to eat for a few weeks i

 

[BillSF]

Well I'm guessing we're all about to find out. The Ukraine war will speed the process up and famine will spread to vulnerable nations that depend on lesser quality grains from the world's breadbasket. I don't believe they were able to get their crops out of the fields this season so next season is kaput as well. Fertilizer is hard to get. China is pretty screwed.
If they manage to cause a meltdown at Europe's largest nuke facility it'll be over for 1000 years in that part of the world. I saw today that Ukraine has those Russians on the run in Donetsk and Putin could be hearing Swan Lake pretty soon. I hope he doesn't resort tactical nukes. Then we'll all be in it.
Until then though, we're more than okay. We just do a lot of whining and bitching because we want what we want and well what else are you gonna do when you have everything? I saw Elon was whining that Twitter is slowing his tweets down and I guess that'll be a basis for another legal action. Those are the problems that matter here!
If we did have a bad harvest most of us have enough around the waistline to get us through another season.
But I save seeds anyway. The romas we grew this year are the size of tennis balls and only had about a dozen seeds each. Those are seeds worth the effort!

One point of clarification....we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki and 70 years later radiation levels have returned to background levels. This number specifically because the longest lasting radioactive isotope of note in the detonation has a half-life of 14 years. Radioactive waste that lasts for 100s or 1000s of years is NOT dangerous unless you eat/drink/inhale it. The long life of this waste implies that it is not very radioactive.

Radiation is bad, but it's not Mad Max forever and life on Earth has evolved despite (because?) of the background radiation everywhere.

I really wish the US would just build some more, modern, nuclear power plants and automatically make the US grid carbon free (solar, wind, with nuclear for base load). People are afraid of nuclear energy because of science fiction and horror movies.