Can Solar & Wind Fix Everything (e.g., Climate Change) with a battery break-through?

[aenyc]

You continue to ignore the math and references that prove otherwise, so there's not much new to say.

What math and science? The same one that gave us safe and effective vax? How can we believe "math and science" when it has been severely compromised by by special interest and anyone dissenting in the field has been ostracized? The entire "climate change" math relies on incorrect assumptions, and the entire data model has been proved to be false time and time again.
Just like with vaccines. Its the same exact thing.

What the EU found out is it is silly to be dependent on oil from an irresponsible country.

Aha, and that renewables are not enough to sustain demand. (They have been shattering their traditional energy generation for years, hence they are in doodoo)

Why would you have to pay 5x as much for renewables? Do the math. It's cheaper. Or explain why the math from the last post you ignored is wrong:

It is most definitely not cheaper when everything is taken into account. This has been broken down time and again, but you ignore all of it. But no need to argue at all with all the "math and science"... reality is EU is paying significantly higher rates, and places like Cali are having brownouts and blackouts.

More often than not you'll find my arguments use today's numbers and tech with the caveat that scientific advances will only make it better.
For example, the math above has nothing pie-in-the-sky about it.

With today's tech, using renewables such as Solar and Wind and current battery tech is completely and totally unsustainable unless you send 90% of people to stone age living standards.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Stop being idiot Murphy.
You dont actually expect the people that control the mass media to go out and tell you the truth?

It's kind of comical that you even use the terms and phrases you are told to use.

What the hell is "mass media" ? Does that mean CNN ? Or does it include Faux News as well? Does it also include my own doctor? Universities and governments? International governments? Hospitals?

Careful you don't wrap that tinfoil too tight, it can cut off circulation to both of your brain cells.

 

[svetz]

What math and science?

The math shown in the post, the same calculation all of us do when considering solar, the one that shows solar is cheaper than fossil fuels.
I'm only asking you to trust yourself, not some scientist in a secret government conspiracy lab.

Aha, and that renewables are not enough to sustain demand.

No one has completely converted yet. It'll take 30 years to replace the existing fossil fuel plants with renewables. Not like anyone wants to replace them until they wear out and need replacing. But meeting demand is not about renewables or fossil, it's about planning.

It is most definitely not cheaper when everything is taken into account. This has been broken down time and again, but you ignore all of it. But no need to argue at all with all the "math and science"... reality is EU is paying significantly higher rates, and places like Cali are having brownouts and blackouts.

More imaginary facts? Is that what your arguments have been reduced to?

California blackouts aren't from renewables. Even the Texas storm outage blamed on wind wasn't really from renewables (lack of maintenance on gas wells causing moisture to freeze). Power is power regardless of where it comes from. Google it. Outages are from a combination of mismanagement, poor planning, and poor maintenance (sparks from overhead setting wildfires). Some will even say extreme heat from global warming.

With today's tech, using renewables such as Solar and Wind and current battery tech is completely and totally unsustainable unless you send 90% of people to stone age living standards. 90% of the people to the stone age? Arguments based on imaginary facts won't sway much of the community. The U.S. is already 20% renewables and while I'm dubious about the education system I don't think we're back to the stone age. Neither do I believe Iceland or Norway to be re-entering a stone age. In fact, pretty sure all those countries have been steadily growing their GDP.

​

 

[svetz]

Comparison of CATL's Sodium with LFP"

 

[aenyc]

The U.S. is already 20% renewables and while I'm dubious about the education system I don't think we're back to the stone age. Neither do I believe Iceland or Norway to be re-entering a stone age. In fact, pretty sure all those countries have been steadily growing their GDP.

View attachment 139835​

Aha, except California is way on its way to stone age, lol.
And people in Norway are very excited about paying 5x for electricity. And their prime renewable is actually Hydropower.
Switching to Solar/Wind alone will send our civilization back to 1500.

Nordic power price hits record high amid Europe-wide surge

The reference power price for the Nordic region hit a record high on Monday, with prices in southern Norway scaling new heights for a second consecutive day, driven by colder weather and even more elevated prices in continental Europe and Britain.

www.reuters.com

Why California’s Climate Policies Are Causing Electricity Blackouts​

Electricity Shortage Warnings Grow Across U.S.​

Business owners tear up energy bills in protest as prices skyrocket​

EU nations announce measures to curb soaring energy prices​

Dont you complain you stupid peasant you!
https://phys.org/news/2022-09-selfish-norwegians-electricity-prices.html

Aha, yes sir, renewables will save us!

• Norway had low rainfall during the second half of last year, so water reservoirs used to generate power weren't filled as much as they normally are. This was a problem when winter's cold set in at the same time as the need for power was greatest.
• New rules governing electricity trade with the EU mean that power from Norway is sold to the highest bidder.
• Two new undersea power cables to Europe that opened last year increased exports, and did not improve matters for Norwegian consumers.
• The EU's efforts to move away from fossil energy sources have played an important role. Germany shut down three nuclear power plants last winter. But renewable energy has not been developed rapidly enough (because they cant) to compensate for the fact that Europe is no longer investing in nuclear power, oil and coal. This increases the need for energy from Norway. And the prices.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Aha, except California is way on its way to stone age, lol.
And people in Norway are very excited about paying 5x for electricity. And their prime renewable is actually Hydropower.
Switching to Solar/Wind alone will send our civilization back to 1500.

Nordic power price hits record high amid Europe-wide surge

The reference power price for the Nordic region hit a record high on Monday, with prices in southern Norway scaling new heights for a second consecutive day, driven by colder weather and even more elevated prices in continental Europe and Britain.

www.reuters.com

Why California’s Climate Policies Are Causing Electricity Blackouts​

From your link
"The immediate reason for the black-outs was the failure of a 500-megawatt power plant and an out-of-service 750-megawatt unit not being available."
So had those two power plants been operating, there wouldn't have been a problem. What does THAT have to do with solar?

Your link is written by a political enemy of California's governor, and I'll bet my barn you didn't know that. Where you expecting praise or the real cause of the blackouts? Would you even expect truth from someone attempting to use a bad situation for political gain?

I'm not a fan of Newsom or his policies, but this article is a load of bull$hit designed for morons who are gullible.

California's blackouts were caused, like many other things that happen, by an alignment of unfortunate events. Why are you not posting about the blackouts in Texas? I remember the governor down there blaming the wind turbines! ROFLMAO

Funny how you ignore such things.. actually, it's quite expected because that's how idiotic rationalizations work. Dumb people are told what to think.

The rest of your links are probably just as faulty and I'm not going to waste my time because if there's one lesson I've learned in life, one rule of the universe that remains steadfast and true, it is that:

YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID.

One other thing you might want to consider..
You have no constitutional right to electrical power. No where in any law or any constitution does it say you have a right, or are guaranteed, a steady supply of energy for your comfort.

As far as nuclear energy.. Only an idiot would build a nuclear power plant in an earthquake zone. Its a damn good thing they are shutting down those plants because wind's generally blow from the west to the east, and California is about as west as it gets.

Unfortunately, with the exception of the east coast, the best places to build nuclear plants in the USA are places where they aren't needed.

 

[svetz]

Woot! Let's see what you have for me!

Why California’s Climate Policies Are Causing Electricity Blackouts

So, in regards to blackouts, the article says:

The immediate reason for the black-outs was the failure of a 500-megawatt power plant and an out-of-service 750-megawatt unit not being available.

...And yesterday, California had to impose rolling blackouts because it had failed to maintain sufficient reliable power from natural gas and nuclear plants, or pay in advance for enough guaranteed electricity imports from other states.

...Gov. Newsom, didn’t want to spend the extra money to guarantee the additional electricity out of fears of raising California’s electricity prices even more than they had already raised them...

So... fossil fuel failures and mismanagement are the culprits! Thanks for researching that and disproving it was renewables.

Electricity Shortage Warnings Grow Across U.S.

Let's see what this one says...

...California’s grid operator said Friday that it anticipates a shortfall in supplies this summer, especially if extreme heat, wildfires or delays...

So, they're worried about climate change. Understandable.

Oh look, it confirms what I was saying about wind and solar being cheaper right now and the only reason we haven't naturally converted is the current energy storage economics:

...wind and solar farms—which are among the cheapest forms of power generation—don’t produce electricity at all times and need large batteries to store their output

Another great article!

Business owners tear up energy bills in protest as prices skyrocket

Yeah, those darn fossil fuel prices would drive anyone crazy. Well, Russia is obviously doing there bit to convince the world to switch.

EU nations announce measures to curb soaring energy prices

Let's see what the issue is...

...Two days ago, Moscow shut a main pipeline supplying gas to Europe indefinitely...

Yeah, that would sure do it. Yikes... their solution is to tax citizens to buy more fossil fuels while the prices are high to stockpile them. That's going to annoy their neighbors (like Norweigans who are paying more because the EU forced them to sell power to the highest bidder from the article below).

https://phys.org/news/2022-09-selfish-norwegians-electricity-prices.html

Nice bullet list, but why did you leave out the #1 reason they cited, e.g., "The war in Ukraine has greatly reduced access to Russian gas."
Just cherry-picking what you report on eh? So, in other words, you accuse me of things you're actually doing.

 

[aenyc]

@svetz You are great at cherry picking pieces of information that suit your narrative while ignoring the big picture! You have definitely shown that for sure.
However, the elephant in the room, as shown numerous times is that even an attempt to switch to renewables is already producing numerous problems

1. Increased cost (Greatly increased cost)
2. Blackouts and Brownouts because renewables are unable to generate enough capacity when its needed

Places like Norway (And the rest of EU) prove as much. Russia cut cheap gas, and basically the entire region is screwed.
So with "climate change" agenda, we are basically going to do the same exact thing (cut traditional energy generation) and somehow expect different results. Brilliant man, brilliant i tell you. California, well is California. There is plenty of information online that their crazy switch to renewables is what led to problems there.


And that is WITHOUT considering other costs that you are continuing to actively ignore - Environmental and Social. The environmental alone is enough to deter anyone who is not a virtue signaling hypocrite.

And BTW, this is precisely why the Russia-Ukraine war was started by the globalists - destruction of EU/US standard of living is the real goal. (And Russian living standards were already at rock bottom with exception of places like Moscow and other megacities).

Technocracy: The Operating System For The New International Rules-Based Order

The International Rules-Based Order is under threat and the balance of power is in flux. This geopolitical shift is not being led by nation states but rather by a global network of stakeholders seeking to create global technocracy.

unlimitedhangout.com

Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know how. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behaviour and keeping society under close surveillance and control.

 

[svetz]

1. Increased cost (Greatly increased cost)

No facts to support this conclusion have ever been presented. But counterarguments with references and simple math have disproved this. Solar and wind are less expensive than fossil fuels, the only reason we haven't organically switched is the cost of energy storage is still uneconomical in most areas.

2. Blackouts and Brownouts because renewables are unable to generate enough capacity when its needed

Poster's own reference links disprove this, see prior post.

...WITHOUT considering other costs that you are continuing to actively ignore

No additional costs have ever been presented so there's nothing to ignore. LCOE costs on the other hand are well recognized as including everything and definitely say solar and wind are cheaper than fossil fuels; their only problem is that they are intermittent and require storage which when added in push their costs over gas, but not by all that much and they continue to fall.

@svetz You are great at cherry picking pieces of information that suit your narrative while ignoring the big picture!

No facts to substantiate this have been presented.
However, it has been proven in the prior post that you deleted the major point which was incidentally against your viewpoint.

 

[aenyc]

No facts to support the conclusion, but counterarguments with references and simple math have disproved this.

I already showed you!

Explained: Why Is Electricity So Expensive In Norway Right Now?

If you live in Norway, you can’t fail to have noticed high electricity prices just lately. Here’s what’s causing the skyrocketing prices in a country so used to cheap electricity. Norway has been hit by

www.lifeinnorway.net

While one kilowatt-hour of electricity cost on average NOK 0.61 in February of 2021 (USD $0.06), it had jumped to NOK 5.43 in August of 2022 (USD $0.55). That’s an almost tenfold increase.


As i said, i am not going to change your mind, and you wont change mine.
My goal is for anyone with an open mind see the other side of the "climate change" alarmism and make up their own mind based on all the evidence presented.

The only goal for the "climate change" narrative that is sponsored by billionaires is for control over the populace while they do whatever they want.

 

[svetz]

...My goal is for anyone with an open mind see the other side of the "climate change" alarmism and make up their own mind based on all the evidence presented.

I appreciate that, and I'm glad you're trying. But I don't believe you're doing that good of a job at it. The links you post from credible sources say the opposite of what you intend and hearsay/innuendo/emotion/name-calling isn't likely to convince anyone.

 

[aenyc]

I appreciate that, and I'm glad you're trying. But I don't believe you're doing that good of a job at it. The links you post from credible sources say the opposite of what you intend and hearsay/innuendo/emotion/name-calling isn't likely to convince anyone.

I feel the same about all your "facts". You narrative can be summarized "Dont worry guys, this vaxx is safe and effective! Trust the science"

However, from one of the articles:

While one kilowatt-hour of electricity cost on average NOK 0.61 in February of 2021 (USD $0.06), it had jumped to NOK 5.43 in August of 2022 (USD $0.55). That’s an almost tenfold increase.

You go ask the Norwegians and Californians who were energy rationed. Stop living in the ivory tower.

So you go ahead, trust "the Science" (TM). And dont forget your 5th booster! Its safe and effective.

 

[svetz]

You go ask the Norwegians and Californians who were energy rationed.

Yep. Go read the sources you linked up. Step through the math provided. Refute the logic if you can.

 

[aenyc]

Yep. Go read the sources you linked up. Step through the math provided. Refute the logic if you can.

here you go again, mr Math wizard

Explained: Why Is Electricity So Expensive In Norway Right Now?​

While one kilowatt-hour of electricity cost on average NOK 0.61 in February of 2021 (USD $0.06), it had jumped to NOK 5.43 in August of 2022 (USD $0.55). That’s an almost tenfold increase.

Yes, we are going to believe mr Svetz paper math, and ignore our lying eyes (and wallets).

 

[svetz]

...one kilowatt-hour of electricity cost ... in February of 2021 (USD $0.06), it had jumped to ... in August of 2022 (USD $0.55)...

Honestly, how much wind/solar do you think they could have possibly of installed in 18 months to cause a $0.49 increase? The reasons why the prices went up were listed in your bullet points above, primarily the war with Ukraine. It's not rational to say the entire increase is from renewables.

 

[aenyc]

Another strawman's argument.
I just showed you facts, actual real facts that are very much felt by normal people but you quickly turned on the spot (Like all progressives do when you point out flaws in their argument).
Your logic is again flawed. Lack of Russian gas simply accelerated what EU government already wanted to do by cutting traditional power generation methods.

Its funny that support for renewables started waning in places like Norway because suddenly people realized that its not enough to keep warm! But sometimes people need the rude awakening to knock them out of their unicorn dust thinking.

 

[LeoThomson]

As i said, i am not going to change your mind, and you wont change mine.

If you come with compelling evidence, I will change my mind.

My goal is for anyone with an open mind see the other side of the "climate change" alarmism and make up their own mind based on all the evidence presented.

The charge that climate change scientists are alarmist proves nothing, even Winston Churchill was derided as an alarmist and history showed he was right.

I have not been worried about climate change for some time now, the ongoing development of renewable energy and storage are unstoppable now. My only concern is that China is leading the technology while the campaigns of politicians in the US and elsewhere are getting funded by the fossil fuel industry in order to preserve subsidies for fossil fuels. The subsidies are far greater than the amount donated and it is highly profitable for the fossil fuel industry.

Fossil Fuels Consumption Subsidies 2022 – Analysis - IEA

Fossil Fuels Consumption Subsidies 2022 - Analysis and key findings. A report by the International Energy Agency.

www.iea.org

 

[svetz]

...I just showed you facts, actual real facts

I don't doubt the $0.49/kWh rate hike, that is factual. What's erroneous is your conclusion that it's from renewables.

Your logic is again flawed.

Back at yah!

 

[aenyc]

Aha, you keep trying.... How convenient, you can blame incompetence (really evil intent) on the boogie man Pu (And i actually hate him and his oligarchs with a passion after what they did to Russian people, but i know its part of the same globalist cabal, so its not suprising to anyone who has been following Russian politics since 2000 when Pu was installed).

Don’t Blame Putin for Europe’s Energy Crisis

Regardless of Russia’s gas cutbacks, Europe’s own policies have made shortages and price spikes the new normal.

foreignpolicy.com

Is Europe’s Energy Crisis a Preview of America’s?

Europe has itself to blame for shortages and spiking prices, but Washington is copying many of its policies.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[MurphyGuy]

@svetz You are great at cherry picking pieces of information that suit your narrative while ignoring the big picture! You have definitely shown that for sure.
However, the elephant in the room, as shown numerous times is that even an attempt to switch to renewables is already producing numerous problems

1. Increased cost (Greatly increased cost)
2. Blackouts and Brownouts because renewables are unable to generate enough capacity when its needed

Places like Norway (And the rest of EU) prove as much. Russia cut cheap gas, and basically the entire region is screwed.
So with "climate change" agenda, we are basically going to do the same exact thing (cut traditional energy generation) and somehow expect different results. Brilliant man, brilliant i tell you. California, well is California. There is plenty of information online that their crazy switch to renewables is what led to problems there.


And that is WITHOUT considering other costs that you are continuing to actively ignore - Environmental and Social. The environmental alone is enough to deter anyone who is not a virtue signaling hypocrite.

And BTW, this is precisely why the Russia-Ukraine war was started by the globalists - destruction of EU/US standard of living is the real goal. (And Russian living standards were already at rock bottom with exception of places like Moscow and other megacities).

Technocracy: The Operating System For The New International Rules-Based Order

The International Rules-Based Order is under threat and the balance of power is in flux. This geopolitical shift is not being led by nation states but rather by a global network of stakeholders seeking to create global technocracy.

unlimitedhangout.com

Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know how. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behaviour and keeping society under close surveillance and control.

Change always comes with some discomfort and the switch to renewables will be no exception. I understand that you conservatives are afraid of change, that is what the definition of being a conservative actually is, and I understand that irrational fears are the result of weak minds, but damn, the information is available, all one needs to do is read it.

I can't imagine the horror of being someone who's conservative mentality is also coupled to a conspiracy mentality. You're not going to shoot up any schools are you? Mental illness is a serious thing..