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Just installed some EasyStarts on 5 ton AC

Then two speed HP with variable blower coil would still be a better ROI.
Perhaps. My research indicates otherwise.
Variable speed condenser, aka inverter, provides the most comfort, climate control, cannot be achieved with other solutions.
That’s important to us, and I do respect that many do not care about this level of sophistication.
A Yugo can take you from A to B. We drive a BMW X5 ;-)
 
Chiming in to echo the impressiveness of the Micro Air soft start. I put one on each of my A/C units and then ran them off my EcoFlow - just because I could! (Of course, one at a time, and not for very long, mind you).

The install was easy for me so I'm sure Will did it with his eyes closed.
 
Perhaps. My research indicates otherwise.
Variable speed condenser, aka inverter, provides the most comfort, climate control, cannot be achieved with other solutions.
That’s important to us, and I do respect that many do not care about this level of sophistication.
A Yugo can take you from A to B. We drive a BMW X5 ;-)
I understand but your in the 10% that purchase that way.
If we had been talking about comfort then the system you have is the right one whether it has an ROI or not.
 
To save around 30% on AC you need a variable speed condenser unit, aka inverter.
Needless to say, the blower (inside) unit should be variable as well.
This the area where AC installer gaslight the public, aka bullshit, since they do not have the skill to install these more sophisticated units and steer you to your granddaddies technology, since they do not have our best interest (PC for scumbags).
Captain Obvious take: Inverter, high efficiency tank water heater, sufficient insulation -> < kW/h off-grid solar system.
In SF there is no gas.
Oh, i dont know if gaslight is fair...
Plenty of the advice of the unskilled is:

"parts are pricy, we dont know how they work, so we dont recommend them"

I push the budget variable speed inverter systems, as none of my customers are willing so far to purchase the full blown variable communicating systems yet...

York, and bosch make a fine series of 20seer models with inverter drive, and an algorythim for decent control.
I have installed a ton of both. Including at my own house.


I take EVERY training class on new equipment, and maintain my credentials.

Poorly installed, a variable system will fail, and out of warranty, the parts ARE very expensive...

None of my installs have failed to date, i wont do a bad install... if the customer doesnt want it done to my specs, they hire someone else.
Or choose basic psc equipment.
 
Perhaps. My research indicates otherwise.
Variable speed condenser, aka inverter, provides the most comfort, climate control, cannot be achieved with other solutions.
That’s important to us, and I do respect that many do not care about this level of sophistication.
A Yugo can take you from A to B. We drive a BMW X5 ;-)
It is the RARE Yugo that can get you from A to B
 
"parts are pricy, we dont know how they work, so we dont recommend them"

You're not kidding.

My neighbor needed to get A/C after not needed it for nearly 30 years. Regional summer temperatures are notably higher now with longer strings of high 90-s/100-s days. Even with overnight lows in the high 60s/low 70s and his crazy R40/R60 house, several days of high temps and the inability to completely cool off the interior made it quite uncomfortable.

Fortunately, he has someone with half a clue on his side, or it would have been a SNAFU of epic proportion. He has a Magnum MS4024PAE, so his surge is limited. He communicated that he was completely off grid and power limited, but they came back with a "standard" 3 ton unit that would have crippled his inverter with LRA.

They were moments away from signing the deal when he asked me to look over it.

In the end, he went with a Lennox Elite EL18XCV-024 (2 ton for 3200 sq ft) - pretty much their top of the line range. Installation was $6K using his existing Lennox propane furnace air handler - about $2K more than the 3 ton unit.

I push the budget variable speed inverter systems, as none of my customers are willing so far to purchase the full blown variable communicating systems yet...

What specifically do you recommend?

EDIT: I desperately tried to talk him into a minisplit, but he was concerned it wouldn't be able to be distributed through the house... I even had a plan for that, but he really wanted something integrated...
 
You're not kidding.

My neighbor needed to get A/C after not needed it for nearly 30 years. Regional summer temperatures are notably higher now with longer strings of high 90-s/100-s days. Even with overnight lows in the high 60s/low 70s and his crazy R40/R60 house, several days of high temps and the inability to completely cool off the interior made it quite uncomfortable.

Fortunately, he has someone with half a clue on his side, or it would have been a SNAFU of epic proportion. He has a Magnum MS4024PAE, so his surge is limited. He communicated that he was completely off grid and power limited, but they came back with a "standard" 3 ton unit that would have crippled his inverter with LRA.

They were moments away from signing the deal when he asked me to look over it.

In the end, he went with a Lennox Elite EL18XCV-024 (2 ton for 3200 sq ft) - pretty much their top of the line range. Installation was $6K using his existing Lennox propane furnace air handler - about $2K more than the 3 ton unit.



What specifically do you recommend?

EDIT: I desperately tried to talk him into a minisplit, but he was concerned it wouldn't be able to be distributed through the house... I even had a plan for that, but he really wanted something integrated...
Bosch makes a 15seer2 heatpump bidget variable .5 to 3 ton system.
They also have the full 20SEER for qualifying to the epa tax credit and such.
 
Biggest threat to the well-being of the variable speed inverter air conditioners is the competence of the service tech working on them.

Their weak links are typically the temp thermistors and lightning surges blowing out the serial data comm link to outside unit. Manufacturers should put galvanically isolated data links in units.

Variable speed compressors have to manage the amount of time spent at lower compressor speed. Below about 50% compressor speed results in insufficient oil return to compressor, allowing oil to collect in evaporator and suction lines. They will periodically speed up for about 10 minutes to improve refrigerant mass flow to push oil back to compressor. They are lubricated by compressor oil sump reserve at low speed that needs to be replenished every so often by running at higher speed.
 
After installing the EasyStart 368 Soft Starter ASY-368-X72-BLUE on my 5 ton TRANE (XR14-4TWR4060G1000AC) the inrush went from 162Amps to 31Amps.

20230416_161518.jpg

It's running since 10 month and has nearly 10,000 starts with just 2 starting errors!
Screenshot_20231123_080311_EasyStart.jpg

I'm very happy with this, even if it's expensive. I'm sure the compressor motor will last longer, also (beside the easier start with HF inverter usage). Before the soft start installation, a loud mechanical "bang" happened on each start of the compressor motor - now it starts like a sewing machine.
 
any idea about the 2 faults? My EasyStarts still say 0.
I'm still in the (final) installation phase of my off-grid solar system (using grid just as a backup). While I'm doing some tests with AC-in of the inverters and playing with different settings (SBU, USB, back to grid, back to battery settings, etc.), I had a couple of power losses and 2 of them occur by coincidence while the EasyStart was in starting phase (in this 5 seconds delay after EasyStart get's powered up and before it soft starts the compressor).
 
Those Goodman units are cheap garbage according to youtube hvac pros.
They are trying to justify higher end gear and their ridiculous labor rates (most of them, not all). Goodman is decent gear. Its not the best, but it is well made and parts are easy to get if you DIY. IMO, its as good as Carrier and all of their brands. I did work for the Carrier plant in Indianapolis before they shut it down. They moved all of that to Mexico.
I literally installed the Amana/Goodman furnace and the Goodman condenser myself. Altered the ducting. Purged the copper lines with nitrogen and silver soldered the refrigeration lines Evacuated the lines, etc. I can buy refrigerant, recover, evacuate, recharge legally, etc. I have the license. (Don't be impressed, its not that hard to get.)
If you are thinking of buying/installing a new HVAC system; see if you can buy a new control board for the furnace. Some are not available to the public without having a HVAC company install it ($$$$). Anyone can buy Goodman control boards, blowers, etc. I bought a spare.
 
They are trying to justify higher end gear and their ridiculous labor rates (most of them, not all). Goodman is decent gear. Its not the best, but it is well made and parts are easy to get if you DIY. IMO, its as good as Carrier and all of their brands. I did work for the Carrier plant in Indianapolis before they shut it down. They moved all of that to Mexico.
I literally installed the Amana/Goodman furnace and the Goodman condenser myself. Altered the ducting. Purged the copper lines with nitrogen and silver soldered the refrigeration lines Evacuated the lines, etc. I can buy refrigerant, recover, evacuate, recharge legally, etc. I have the license. (Don't be impressed, its not that hard to get.)
If you are thinking of buying/installing a new HVAC system; see if you can buy a new control board for the furnace. Some are not available to the public without having a HVAC company install it ($$$$). Anyone can buy Goodman control boards, blowers, etc. I bought a spare.
I 99% Installed a Goodman heat pump with high efficiency propane furnace in my old house. Went easy enough. Had to have a guy so the refrigerant but that was it. Seemed like decent equipment, but I only had it 2-3 years before I moved out.
 
After installing the EasyStart 368 Soft Starter ASY-368-X72-BLUE on my 5 ton TRANE (XR14-4TWR4060G1000AC) the inrush went from 162Amps to 31Amps.
Tell us please; What happens when it has a failed start ?? Does it automatically recover? Or do you need to intervene?
 
Tell us please; What happens when it has a failed start ?? Does it automatically recover? Or do you need to intervene?
Depends on failure. You may collect some fault counts if you have some utility power glitches. If Start cap inside Easystart starts to go bad and drops in capacitance it can cause hard starts that immediately causes Easystart to 'pull the plug' due to excessive startup current. High capacitance start caps are electrolytic based. As their electrolyte dries out over time its capacitance decreases. This is same issue with hard start kits.

There is a three-minute timeout timer that prevents restart of compressor during the EasyStart short cycle hold off timer. Some air handlers with electronic controls with EEV expansion valve may throw a superheat error because compressor is not running,

Good thing is the Easystart power glitch shutdown with hold off timer will prevent a scroll compressor from reverse scroll run from a short (100 millisec or less) power glitch.

Other not so good thing is EasyStart can mask a bad Run capacitor. Unit will startup due to Easystart's start capacitor but when it releases after startup there will be no Run capacitor for compressor. Normally without Easystart, a Run cap failure will cause compressor to just grunt and pop its overcurrent breaker when it tries to start up. With Easystart and bad Run cap, you may not realize something is wrong. Compressor will only have Run winding current and will draw more power. With a bad Run capacitor, compressor will run hotter at higher power consumption, your electric bill will be higher, and run power factor is worse.

Another little secret is EasyStart with BT comm only measures current on compressor Run winding. It does not measure auxiliary (start) winding current. This causes EasyStart reported compressor run current to be about 20% lower than actual. Put a clamp on amp meter on compressor common wire if you would like to verify this. If you put clamp on meter to compressor Run winding it will be close to what Easystart is reporting. Auxiliary (start) winding current will be about 70% of Run winding current but is about 90 degrees out of phase so vector sum of the two currents is about 20% greater.

Total compressor common wire current = sqrt (run winding current ^2 + auxiliary winding current ^2) if Run cap is providing 90 degrees phase shift.

You should buy and keep a spare Easystart Start capacitor, Run capacitor, and contactor relay for your unit. Easystart's Start cap is easy to change, just lugs to disconnect from cap and some new tie-wraps to secure replacement start cap. Retrain EasyStart unit if you change either Start or Run caps.
 
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Depends on failure. You may collect some fault counts if you have some utility power glitches. If Start cap inside Easystart starts to go bad and drops in capacitance it can cause hard starts that immediately causes Easystart to 'pull the plug' due to excessive startup current. High capacitance start caps are electrolytic based. As their electrolyte dries out over time its capacitance decreases. This is same issue with hard start kits.

There is a three-minute timeout timer that prevents restart of compressor during the EasyStart short cycle hold off timer. Some air handlers with electronic controls with EEV expansion valve may throw a superheat error because compressor is not running,

Good thing is the Easystart power glitch shutdown with hold off timer will prevent a scroll compressor from reverse scroll run from a short (100 millisec or less) power glitch.

Other not so good thing is EasyStart can mask a bad Run capacitor. Unit will startup due to Easystart's start capacitor but when it releases after startup there will be no Run capacitor for compressor. Normally without Easystart, a Run cap failure will cause compressor to just grunt and pop its overcurrent breaker when it tries to start up. With Easystart and bad Run cap, you may not realize something is wrong. Compressor will only have Run winding current and will draw more power. With a bad Run capacitor, compressor will run hotter at higher power consumption, your electric bill will be higher, and run power factor is worse.

Another little secret is EasyStart with BT comm only measures current on compressor Run winding. It does not measure auxiliary (start) winding current. This causes EasyStart reported compressor run current to be about 20% lower than actual. Put a clamp on amp meter on compressor common wire if you would like to verify this. If you put clamp on meter to compressor Run winding it will be close to what Easystart is reporting. Auxiliary (start) winding current will be about 70% of Run winding current but is about 90 degrees out of phase so vector sum of the two currents is about 20% greater.

Total compressor common wire current = sqrt (run winding current ^2 + auxiliary winding current ^2) if Run cap is providing 90 degrees phase shift.

You should buy and keep a spare Easystart Start capacitor, Run capacitor, and contactor relay for your unit. Easystart's Start cap is easy to change, just lugs to disconnect from cap and some new tie-wraps to secure replacement start cap. Retrain EasyStart unit if you change either Start or Run caps.
This is good info. When I installed my EasyStart, I replaced the run cap with a high quality Amrad capacitor. I also replaced the contactor. I also upgraded to a larger cap in the EasyStart as per MicroAir's recommendations for my borderline X48 4 ton unit.
 
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