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Top Balance question

offthetop04

New Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2023
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15
Location
Texas
16 280ah cells
started top balancing 2 days ago at 3.331 today they are at 3.349,
is this normal progess with 20amps charging?
TB2.jpgTB1.jpg
 
Lets do some math.

I assume these are new cells. New cells generally come at ~40% SOC. 16 280Ah Cells in parallel will need .6 X 16 X 280 = 2688 Ah to fully charge. At 20A this will take 2688/20=134Hrs to fully charge. Yes, it is normal.

Keep in mind that at 3.3V 20 A is only 66W.

I typically advise folks to wire them in series with a bms and charge them till there is a cell over-voltage. This will charge in a reasonable amount of time. (52.8V x 20A = 1056W). After the BMS faults on a cell overvoltage, they can be put back in parallel to do the top balancing.

The most important tool for top balancing is patience.

 
Last edited:
Lets do some math.

I assume these are new cells. New cells generally come at ~40% SOC. 16 280Ah Cells in parallel will need .6 X 16 X 280 = 2688 Ah to fully charge. At 20A this will take 2688/20=134Hrs to fully charge. Yes, it is normal.

Keep in mind that at 3.3V 20 A is only 66W.

I typically advise folks to wire them in series with a bms and charge them till there is a cell over-voltage. This will charge in a reasonable amount of time. (52.8V x 20A = 1056W). After the BMS faults on a cell overvoltage, they can be put back in parallel to do the top balancing.

The most important tool for top balancing is patience.

Yes new cells.
I had them in series and I had one cell hit max charge while the others were still at 3.3ish.
I just wanted to confirm that this was normal gain. I wasnt sure of my math but it was the same as yours.
My first pack so being overly cautious!
Thank you for the reply
 
Yes new cells.
I had them in series and I had one cell hit max charge while the others were still at 3.3ish.
I just wanted to confirm that this was normal gain. I wasnt sure of my math but it was the same as yours.
My first pack so being overly cautious!
Thank you for the reply
wait.. you had one that hit "max charge? you mean it hit 3.65 volts? if one out of 16 is hitting 3.65 and the rest are at 3.3, then you need to check your connections and ensure that all of your buss bars are getting good contact.
 
Perfectly normal. You're not getting 20a of charging, you're getting 20 / 16 = 1.25a at best per cell, so honkin huge cells at 1a are going to take ffoorreevvvvveerrr to do. A lot of times people (like me) will assemble the whole pack and throw a full size charger on there, then either let the BMS balance the pack over time, or after the battery gets close, tear it apart and top balance from there for those last couple percent.
 
wait.. you had one that hit "max charge? you mean it hit 3.65 volts? if one out of 16 is hitting 3.65 and the rest are at 3.3, then you need to check your connections and ensure that all of your buss bars are getting good contact.
while in series configuration I had one cell go to the max voltage the bms allowed and it shut down charging. The other cells were a lot lower so i broke it down and have been top balancing in parallel for 3 days now.
 
Yes new cells.
I had them in series and I had one cell hit max charge while the others were still at 3.3ish.
I just wanted to confirm that this was normal gain. I wasnt sure of my math but it was the same as yours.
My first pack so being overly cautious!
Thank you for the reply
OK. Now it is a matter of being very patient. Set the target voltage on the Power supply before you hook it to the parallel cells and then hook it up and wait. No matter how tempted you are, DO NOT raise the voltage on the power supply.....
 
while in series configuration I had one cell go to the max voltage the bms allowed and it shut down charging. The other cells were a lot lower so i broke it down and have been top balancing in parallel for 3 days now.
That cell started with a higher SOC or was a 'weaker' cell. This is normal.
 
When they hit 3.45 volts, keep an eye on them!
As long as the Power Supply is correctly set to the target voltage, there should be no reason to worry about over-charging the cells. At around 3.45 volts the current will start tapering off and the voltage will start going up. This will accelerate till the charge is complete.

You have probably already noticed that the voltage at the power supply is slightly higher than at the cells. This is normal. (Don't try to adjust the power supply.) As the current starts going down, the voltage difference between the power supply and the cells will also start going down.

There is some debate on when to call the top balance complete. I would wait till the current is in the 1A range for 16 cells. With 16 cells in parallel, they will not charge evenly even with the diagonal hook-up shown in the pics. Waiting till the current has dropped to close to zero allows the 'lagging' cells to catch up. (Note: Some folks feel it can be stopped at a much higher tail current)
 
while in series configuration I had one cell go to the max voltage the bms allowed and it shut down charging. The other cells were a lot lower so i broke it down and have been top balancing in parallel for 3 days now.
OK in series so as a 48 volt pack. then one of the cells was either not discharged properly prior to shipping, or the others were over discharged, or you got a bum cell or two. i would put the other 15 in parallel and bring them up to about 3.45 and then reconnect the suspect cell and see if they top balance out. it could take a couple of weeks depending upon where you are in the charge process.

I suggest this a its not good to hold the cells at 3.65 for extended periods of time.
 
OK in series so as a 48 volt pack. then one of the cells was either not discharged properly prior to shipping, or the others were over discharged, or you got a bum cell or two. i would put the other 15 in parallel and bring them up to about 3.45 and then reconnect the suspect cell and see if they top balance out. it could take a couple of weeks depending upon where you are in the charge process.

I suggest this a its not good to hold the cells at 3.65 for extended periods of time.
Ive had all 16 cells balancing since Sunday. Pack is reading 3.385 now so its making progress. I hope I dont have a bad cell, 100* weather coming and I need this to be working LOL
 
Patience Grasshopper. Patience.
Voltage sat idle for days....
So I ended up separating the cells and charging in smaller packs.
with in minutes minutes of charging the 1st 3 packs were done and each read 3.60 but the last pack ran for 2 more days with zero movement passed 3.4 ish. Then I tried individual charging of each of these cells with no movement at all.
Put all 16 back in parallel and charged another 24 hours.
Built my pack in series and been using.
Watching the bms voltage i can identify the 4 cells that stop charging at 3.4. One of these drops significantly faster than the rest on discharge causing the bms to trigger low volt protect '2.80" while the rest of the cells sit at 3.2ish volts
So Four cells stop charging at 3.4 while the others continue till the high volt protect is triggered at 3.55
One cell drops to 2.8 and triggers low volt protect while the other cells have 3.2.
Is my fix to replace the four cells doing another top balance?
Or is there some way to FORCE these cells take more voltage? LOL
At time of purchase 12 cells were boxed and 4 were not so i have to assume these are the 4 that weren't. :fp2
 
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