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House burned down

robbob2112 said:
FLIR 1 pro - wanted the higher resolution and extra mode.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

I just happen to have an old Galaxy A7 in a drawer so I can use it when testing things as the display.

Funny they still call it FLIR (Forward looking Infrared) - Seems like calling it a thermal camera might be more accurate these days. Especially with the color overlay verse the old black and white version.

My airplane had a FLIR turret - fly along and drop it out the belly and look around - had to be changed periodically when the liquid nitrogen inside leaked out. Back early 90's it was $250k a copy and my team replaced 1 of them 4 times. Good thing we had 8ft extender cables so we could hook the new one up in the aluminum can before install.

First 2 didn't work.... third one came with sea water sloshing around in the can and the 4th one worked.
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And it is going back, having to depend on an android app is causing difficulties. It won't work with my 3 year old phone.

Ordering a different one.
 
robbob2112 said:
Ordering a different one.
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Check out Uni-T.
I've been happy with this one I ordered back in November, no issues on my Oneplus 6T. App isn't invasive like many others I looked at. They also have some nice standalone.
Screenshot_20240515-213109.jpg
Resolution isn't as good as the FLIR pro, it's much nicer than the regular FLIR I use at work with an iPhone.
 
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_voltmeter_ said:
you want to say fuse the cable to the inverter?
fuses are not for appliance protection
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What do you think the fuses are for? Or are you saying don’t use fuses?

Let me guess you are going to say “fuses protect the wire?” I’ve seen ppl say that here. It is an incomplete statement.

Wires are sized for the load so fuses are load based on the wires - lead which are load sized. Schools started screwing ppl up by traching breaker and fuses to protect the wire. The wires are sized for the loads. Thus fuses-breakers .
Victron provided OP the instructions needed to set it up.

You either put a fuse there or you put a breaker as shown. Victron stated Fuse. Fuses are cheaper than breakers and the contacts don’t weld up. If fuses are properly sized and chosen they protect the wire and everything. The saying fuses and breakers protect the wire- lead is incorrect because of omission based on load.

Victron shows and states Inverters are suppose to have a 200 amp fuse and battery wire cable lead of sufficient cross section.

You put 6 each 200 amp fuses in parallel with the inverter and wiring then you have exceeded the manufacturer recommended 200amp fuse instructions. You now have a bus bar with 1200 amp feeding inverters that were instructed to be fused at 200 amps with lead for cross section to handle the potential load. Yes? or No?

OP added a 7th string with potential 1400amp on the dc positive buss bar

Think OP stated added correct fuses up stream. Not sure where read it. “This system operated without problems for few years.” As stated by OP

Victron also states do not put the battery cable wires in conduit. Suspect They want Free air due to heat.

TO add more some if not most inverters will have internal fusing built into them. They are trying to prevent major damage fires which will result in loss of business or law suits..
If you really want to be picky the fuses Victron wanted for inverter then proper cross section should been mounted on buss bar….then 3 leads connected to the fuses.


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haraldt1 said:
because you need one BMS per bank, it may be that a cell on one bank gets a short circuit or simply slowly discharges towards 0V due to dentriden. if so, the other banks charge the remaining cells of the defective bank above 3.65V, it doesn't have to be such high currents, it already smells like 20A per bank, with 6 banks that's 120A so approx. 6kW that have to go somewhere.... you can't solve something like this with a fuse. each bank needs a BMS that is set as low as possible with the charging/discharging power. I have fused my banks with 100A and limited the respective BMS to 50A power, which is enough for 3x Multiplus 2 3000
Click to expand...
Are you aware Batrius is not exactly 1 BMS for multiple parallel banks?
There is a supervisor: Watchmon Core.
There are K9s: The actual BMS.
For instance, If you have six parallel banks, you need six K9s and one Watchmon Core. The six K9s talk to the supervisor over CAN, reporting battery parameters.
This BMS design uses contractors to control the system. You can have contactors between each bank so you can disconnect the faulty bank in a critical event. There is no chance any cell can be charged over 3.65V except when your contactors fail closed.
Which do you think has the higher chance of failing closed? FET or NO contactor?
 
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Jejochen said:
The fuse picture i posted was just an answer to the "what is a meltfuse" question.
The exact fuse was a mega 48v, 300 A.

The insurance is no problem.
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That is great to hear that the insurance company actually does what they are supposed to do. What brand? Your experience is a good endorsement and counter to the usual horror stories.
 
Made in North Pole said:
Which do you think may fail closed? FET or NO contactor?
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Oooh, I know this one: Both! ;)

If you are trying to disconnect 50VDC on a 500A fault, a 200A contactor will weld the contacts as it tries to open. For either you need sufficient protection in fusing as well as isolation. That isn't to say a contactor isn't better than a fuse-- just that they serve different purposes. The both are great for interrupting their rated current at ]rated voltage for rated number of cycles. Unfortunately too much CYA.
 
Interesting think read Tesla 3 phase is Europe and OVER SEAS only. No USA.

~Specs home level II
USA Tesla split phase charging ~32a * 240V = ~ 7.68kW

~Specs home
Europe Tesla charging ~16A * 3 phase * 230V = ~ 11kW.

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Jejochen said:
Google is investigating this btw
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My guess is the alarm thought it was a meter of steam. I hope this fail is reported and the Nest folks are able to correct what clearly went wrong.
"Nest Protect is the only alarm with Steam Check. It uses custom algorithms and a humidity sensor to look for steam" I think I'll take a hard pass on Nest "protection."
 
Jejochen said:
Google is investigating this btw
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If you are in the US, the Federal Trade Commission would also like to know about this. But for the fortunate waking of your son, this equipment failure was headed to fatalities. There needs to be a recall here.
 
Q-Dog said:
We may never know, but I see a lot of sloppy heat shrink on/under some of these lugs.

20200919_220538-jpg.23202
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Ah, from the comfort of our armchairs, we are all fire investigation experts.
 
I just ordered an EP Cube system w/39.2KWH battery. The plan was to mount on outside of house, but I just decided to do it even better. I was going to anchor on a new slab with steady brackets to house. Instead, I will prefabricate steel strut structure and imbed it in the cement. A gap and zero contact with the house are perfect. Having zero DC PV power on/in the house might be helpful with insurance long term, for peace of mind, priceless.
 
Jejochen said:
Guys, please, yall looking at things way too far. The shelves were fine, the fire fighters have torn everything apart to drag all the cells outside. I dont even know what is being discussed here.
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Don't stress too much. People love to solve a riddle whether it be a crime, a plane crash or a house fire. And every last one of us feels entitled to be an expert in the process. I see the same thing, but 10 x worse, on AVherald.com where every single person completes the aircraft crash analysis and offers a final report before the embers even cool. Your transparency and data sharing has been invaluable and has and will continue to provide many with excellent insights.
 
bobcov said:
Ah, from the comfort of our armchairs, we are all fire investigation experts.
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Show me where I am wrong. It is careless work and in a later post the OP says he had to fix that. I don't know of any inspector that would pass it.

In a thread about someone losing their house, on a DIY forum no less, I would feel somewhat negligent if I didn't comment on the sloppy work, lest someone see it and get the idea that it is somehow OK to be so careless.
 
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Made in North Pole said:
Are you aware Batrius is not exactly 1 BMS for multiple parallel banks?
There is a supervisor: Watchmon Core.
There are K9s: The actual BMS.
For instance, If you have six parallel banks, you need six K9s and one Watchmon Core. The six K9s talk to the supervisor over CAN, reporting battery parameters.
This BMS design uses contractors to control the system. You can have contactors between each bank so you can disconnect the faulty bank in a critical event. There is no chance any cell can be charged over 3.65V except when your contactors fail closed.
Which do you think may fail closed? FET or NO contactor?
Click to expand...
Yes, Batrium would recommend a contactor per string. In the OPs case he chose to use one single contactor, beyond the seven mega fuses.
 
ricardocello said:
Honestly, I had 5 of the 58V-rated ones (clear package) and I thought they were fine, until this House Burned Down thread.
The OP appeared to have them, so I upgraded to the 70v MEGA.
2.5 kA AIC at 70v (littelfuse sf51) is better than 1 kA AIC at 58v (littelfuse bf2)

I would never use MEGA for a battery, just for inverters and MPPTs.
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I'm more concerned about his fuse holder setup. What is the backer they are attached to? I've also seen mention that "Victron recommends this fuse". Well, yes, but you also have to look at how they are installed.

When you compare with a Victron megafuse holder:

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Screenshot_20240516_071628_Samsung Notes.jpg
 
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