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Which All in One 24v/48v

sharkiee00

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Hey!

I'm new here. I'm looking to power a 10ftx10ft shed that will be on a garden allotment that will be off grid. The things that I would like to power would be an 5000 btu window AC unit (not to be run all the time), one to two chest style deep freezers and little odds an ends on occasion like cell phone charges, some electric power tools.

Thanks in advance. I've been watching the videos but still looking for some direction for my uses.
 
your first step is going to be adding up all those watts, its wayyy more than you think!!

5000btu AC is probably about 500watts running, 1000w startup surge.
AC is similar to small freezers as they are all based on "compressor motors"; you need to add them all up including startup surge.

sooo lets do quick "pretend" math:

(1)AC + (2)freezers = (3) compressor motors
that is (3) 500W motors = 1500W load running
2x that for startup surge; which we will ignore for now as this is pretend math.
not sure how much insulation you have in that shed but lets pretend they will all run at least 12hrs everday.
1500w * 12hrs = 18000Watthours/day

thats a lot of solar power and a big battery bank.
you should visit any of the online off-grid solar sizing calculators, they are free and will surprise you with how much power things use.
 
Before you scare sharkiee00 off, Diysolar123, let's refine some of those assumptions. I recently got a Kill-A-Watt so at least some of these numbers are fresh.

- My regular sized house has about 81W of baseline load from internet router, leakage currents, random AC/DC stuff plugged in, Nest cameras, etc.

- My 10 year old refrigerator uses 151W while running and runs about half the time (1.8kWh/day, as measured last week; it's probably a bit more in the summer).

- My 12,000 BTU window AC is rated for 980W, and I haven't measured it yet but I think steady state it will be more like 750W. It also has en Eco mode I could use if I desired to save some watts.

- A new chest freezer like this one uses 250kWh/year (per EnergyStar estimate) or 28.5W on average; so it's probably about 114W while running if it runs a quarter of the time.

On anything with motors like this: yes there is surge current but it's unlikely 1-2 seconds of surge would align for multiple devices at the same time, and you could furthermore offset them with a simple timer switch more easily than you could by planning for overlapping surge currents for everything you own. For example: switch your two chest freezers on and off 50%/50% of the time so they don't overlap on 30 minute intervals; they'll stay cold enough, and you can check this with thermometers for a hundredth of the cost of a bigger battery. You could get way more elaborate than that with timing and not have to plan for multiple surge currents to occur simultaenously. Just imagine if the whole grid was planned for worst case simultaneously load...it would be 10x the size it actually is (and yes, I made up the number 10x, but you get the point).

More details added later:

So let's ignore surge current as that only applies to your inverter size (and wire), and OP won't be limited by battery current in all likelihood. Then it's all about battery capacity to not run out of electrons, and having enough solar panels to produce enough energy on average.

- Let's assume the government (EnergyStar) is right and the freezers use ~30W on average, so that's 60W continuously for two of them = 1.44kWh/day
- The AC is a big one: let's say 500W for 4 hours a day = 2kWh/day during the summer when you would actually use it.
- Charging your tools rounds to zero, by comparison. What do you have a couple Makita cordless drills or something? That's negligible.

So that adds up to 3.44kWh/day. If you live somewhere with 4 hours of insolation per day, that's a 860W PV system for your average load, which is roughly 4 210W "RV" panels, or 3 290W "house sized" panels. This is totally reasonable on a shed, I think. An example would be 3x 350W "house sized" panels, which are roughly 2 square meters, or roughly 6.5' x 10' for 3 of them, perfect for your shed if it's sunny and you angle them south.

For the battery, let's say you want 1 day of energy usage stored up so your frozen food doesn't thaw if it's cloudy all day (not sure if that is enough; consult other forum posts to check, but since you'll also generate some power during that time and you won't use the A/C during those days, I'm assuming). That's 3.44kWh, which is a 24V 150Ah battery. This isn't nothing, but it's also not that big and you can buy it off the shelf ready to use.

Some other thoughts:
- your AC is the biggest consumption in these assumptions. So if you're running low on battery, just sweat it out rather than thaw your frozen food. In the summer when you would be using AC it would also be sunnier / longer days so 4 hours of sun may be 6 hours of sun depending on where you live
- you could find more efficient freezers. Maybe one big one uses less energy than two small ones, if it's new. Don't open the lid very often and you'll save more energy
 
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I like 24v because it doesn't shock me. That said the 48v ones generally have higher continuous output capability (ie MPP solar).

I have a 3000w inverter on 24v, if I had my time over I'd have gotten a 6000-10000w inverter. Bigger is better for start up loads.
 
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Hey!

I'm new here. I'm looking to power a 10ftx10ft shed that will be on a garden allotment that will be off grid. The things that I would like to power would be an 5000 btu window AC unit (not to be run all the time), one to two chest style deep freezers and little odds an ends on occasion like cell phone charges, some electric power tools.

Thanks in advance. I've been watching the videos but still looking for some direction for my uses.
Consider a mini-split unit for your AC needs. They cool very well and are quite energy efficient.
 
Consider a mini-split unit for your AC needs
This is a good suggestion; they also turn down their consumption if you get an "Inverter" model or just any high-SEER model, compared to window ACs which typically just run full-blast at all times. Basically they can intelligently tone back the compressor while still keeping the room a constant temperature.

However, as someone who bought and installed a 9,000BTU mini split for my ~250sqft bedroom, I can tell you I don't think they come much smaller than that and that many BTUs would be way overkill for a 100sqft shed. It's plenty for an upstairs bedroom with tons of windows in 100 degree heat.
 
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lf you have a lot of motor loads i would recommend a low frequency transformer inverter. I have the 6kw two phase Growatt hybrid inverter but havent turned it on, still building my battery and waiting for a nice day to finish the outside wiring.
 
For example: switch your two chest freezers on and off 50%/50% of the time so they don't overlap on 30 minute intervals; they'll stay cold enough, and you can check this with thermometers for a hundredth of the cost of a bigger battery
Or even better so you aren't shutting the freezers off while they're running: you monitor when one of them turns off on its own, and then you activate the power to the other one until it runs and turns off. This is called "round robin arbitration" in my field, aka just "taking turns" using the power. It's actually a big area of research now to coordinate commercial-scale refrigerators to reduce peak grid demand, so you'd be at the cutting edge if you put this together! If this was all you had running, you could buy an inverter that's half the wattage, in theory.

You could do it with about $50 of parts in a DIY way or maybe there is something you can buy off the shelf to do this for you. A DIY way might look like this:
- a small microcontroller
- two of these 250V / 10A relay boards: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3191 (this is plenty; my fridge is 6.5A on the sticker, but less than 1A steady state), although they say "with inductive loads, about half that" (5A). Still, that's probably fine and worth trying for $10.
- a small sensor to determine when each of them is drawing a load: maybe a hall sensor on the supply line or just a wire strategically connected to the freezer circuit board
 
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