Best gas generator for a backup battery charging?

Right now the (2) gasoline gensets that we are allowed to use (once a year us folks in the field all vote nationwide and choose 2 of them so we don't have 100 different gensets we have to learn to maintenance) is the CHAMPION and the WESTINGHOUSE brands ... Champion is really like Honda's ugly sister but still gets the job done pretty well. It is my go-to genset to through in a back of the truck to go and do a site visit ... WESTINGHOUSE is what we use for the bigger "we need to run a small building" type generator. Kinda noisy - but really strong - cranks every time - and you can run gas and propane in them ...

of course out here we use pure 94 octane non-ethanol fuel which does make everything run pretty much better - we just can't afford to have fuel sitting around that's going to get gummed up during an emergency ...

Champion has EXCELLENT service support as does WESTINGHOUSE ... and I mean like if they can't send you a part to fix it - they just send you a new generator ...

Al

OM617YOTA said:

I wouldn't run avgas in anything that's exhausting where I'm breathing. 100LL is only low lead when compared to high lead avgas. Even the low lead avgas is still much more lead than previous leaded car fuels were. Generator, maybe. Chainsaw, weed wacker, any handheld device, no way.

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Also people don’t realize that aviation fuel has no cooling agents Since it’s meant for air planes At altitude. If you run it in terrestrial based engine‘s they will fail prematurely unless jetted correctly. I use to run 100LL in motorcycle and ATV drag racing applications. Works great if jetted super fat. Worked for a guy that owned an airport. He burned though more lawn mowers using up his outdated AV fuel. I tried explaining it to him. But what do I know I’m not a rich airport owner.

Harbour Freight Predator line. Good stuff

I use this Generator with a Victron ip22 30 amp blue charger. at 15amps it runs at a quarter load and at 30 amps a little over half load. I can get around 40 hours on a 20lb BBQ tank. ALP generators are coming out with an electric start stop 1k generator also. Propane is the only way to go.

Jack Rabbit Off Grid said:

people don’t realize that aviation fuel has no cooling agents Since it’s meant for air planes At altitude. If you run it in terrestrial based engine‘s they will fail prematurely unless jetted correctly

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Avgas’ “cooling agent” is octane. Octane increases provides resistance to igniting. So in operation avgas may actually be harder to start when cold, and the octane side benefit of higher performance will never be realized in lower compression engines.

While “the blend” of chemicals used to formulate various iterations of gasoline jetting may be required for high-performance and perhaps other applications for optimal performance, I have never seen anything scientific that suggests any remarkable difference between various ‘gasoline’ varieties base formula.

Your post made me do some reading. I’m confident that avgas is a good storage fuel in full containers with moderately stable storage environment temperatures, and adding stabil will not harm the fuel.

I’ve often wondered about the ‘true fuel’ and other brands: why does it smell differently than 91 or 93 no ethanol pump gas? Why does expensive retail-canned fuels store long term (like avgas!) while no lead 91 E-free gets colored and gummy in carbs after 6 months to a year?

I’m ok with avgas and additive for emergency moderate-term fuel storage.

Really I’m not seeing a problem with old fuel .
I use stable sill in the gas
I do have a plow truck that just sits in the garage all year and comes out to push snow .
I use 1/2 a tank of fuel a year .
Ive been trying to come up with a better plan for storage .
I don’t like to leave the tank empty but I ive been letting it sit on half tank till fall then fill it for winter .
If I could drain the tank I would suck the fuel out and refill every year .
I rotate 50 gallons of fuel every fall for the generator .
I leave all my saws and other stuff filled but they don’t sit for mor then a few months
Any thoughts on the plow truck?

12VoltInstalls said:

I’ve often wondered about the ‘true fuel’ and other brands: why does it smell differently than 91 or 93 no ethanol pump gas? Why does expensive retail-canned fuels store long term (like avgas!) while no lead 91 E-free gets colored and gummy in carbs after 6 months to a year?

I’m ok with avgas and additive for emergency moderate-term fuel storage.

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"modern" gasoline is a mix of all kind crap, notably olefins from thermal or catalytic cracking
"Trufuel" base component is alkylate but on MSDS it has also some added crap, most notably aromatic hydrocarbons xylene and toluene :
Aromatic hydrocarbons have "aroma" like name suggests and they are exellent octane boosters but they are also some sort of health risk.

What they sell here as alkylate gas is low aromatic, low-olefin alkylate:
https://www.neste.be/sites/neste.com/files/attachments/brochure_alkylate_gasoline_final.pdf (page 5)
(doesn't smell like gas of any sort)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkylation_unit

Funny thing is that they had "fuel crisis" already 100 years ago when fuel contained too much olefins (the same crap we are battling now)

And avgas:
"The main petroleum component used in blending avgas is alkylate, which is a mixture of various isooctanes. Some refineries also use reformate."

MattiFin said:

Trufuel" base component is alkylate but on MSDS it has also some added crap, most notably aromatic hydrocarbons xylene and toluene :

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Hilarious!
Racing gas without the nitromethane

Wellbuilt said:

Any thoughts on the plow truck?

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Fill it in fall, double-dose stabilize it.
Drain in spring and run in everyday vehicles. Refill in spring and doubledose stabilize it. Drain it in fall and run in everyday vehicles.

Repeat.

I’m going to try to drain it this weekend I’m not sure if I can get a hose down the fill hole to siphoning.
I was hopping I would use more fuel over winter i plow twice a week all winter but most of the time it a few passes down the road and I’m done.

Wellbuilt said:

I’m going to try to drain it this weekend I’m not sure if I can get a hose down the fill hole to siphoning.
I was hopping I would use more fuel over winter i plow twice a week all winter but most of the time it a few passes down the road and I’m done.

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If new enough (fool injected not carborundumindated) you
can disconnect a fitting under the hood and pump it out with the fuel pump…

BMcL said:

Champion makes a nice affordable propane/gasoline inverter generator.

Amazon.com

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I'd second this as an economical choice. use the factory oil for the first thirty minutes, and then switch to a high-quality synthetic -- it's worth the $8. I've run mine daily for ~2h (to charge the batteries in my worksite tent, using a 24v multiplus) for the last 8 months and it's super rare that it doesn't start on the first pull.

If it’s been working this long, just stabilize it and save the back ache of draining the tank.

I’ve never done anything more then 87 pump gas and stabilize, haven’t had an issue. Oldest engine is the lawn mower at a 2007. I do try and run the carbs dry with fuel shut offs.

BMcL said:

Champion makes a nice affordable propane/gasoline inverter generator.

Amazon.com

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I have the 4000 watt version of this, previous generation... Love it, works great on Propane... I do plan to add the electronic start at some point though

I would go with the Honda if I had unlimited funds to throw at it. I didnt 5 years ago so tried the Predator 2000 from Harbor Freight when they first introduced it. After 5 years I would estimate Ive used it at least 5 hours a week x 52 weeks x 5 years thats over 1250 hours and Ive only changed the oil about 10x. It has not missed a beat and still starts on the first pull every damn time. The bulk of those hours were at about 1/3 rated capacity, though I regularly use a small microwave at the same time I run a 12v charger at 10 amps, combined they are around 1400 watts.
Its probably a bit louder than the Honda though a youtube video had a head to head comparison showing db levels were virtually the same. Maybe its not as quiet as it was new. Regardless, its been as durable as I need it to be and when I bought it you could get it for $400 with coupon. IIRC now its $550 regular price 10% less on sale.
Still a good deal since Hondas are over $1100 now and have countries of origin no better than what Harbor Freight is using.
I think there are a lot of good gennys out there at half the price of Honda, if I did it again I would buy the Predator or look at the Champion 2500, its supposed to be among the quietest and is a full 10lbs lighter than most. Look at the reviews for the Predator 2000, theyre pretty good and I think HF has a rare winner there.

I will add that over a year ago I designed and started to build a fan cooled hush box for the Predator, got the panels cut and routed the insides for a labyrinth apparatus at each end for cooling. Along the way I had some doubts it would work and got sidetracked by other projects. I will finish it in the near future just to say I did. Its made out of 3/4" birch ply and Im insulating it with some old wet suit material and made it just barely bigger than the genny. Thats where I hit a bug, I really didnt leave enough room for a big enough internal blower, though I have a high power 4" duct blower I can fit externally.
I did fit about 2 feet of high temp heater hose to its exhaust port so I can run it in my minivan if I want, out the rear hatch. I dont do that often, when I do I put a centrifigual blower/air circulator next to it blowing out the back hatch.
On hush boxes, there are a number of videos out there particularly from Japan (where I guess noise is frowned upon) of guys sticking Honda gennys in boxes, many with amazing results.
Nobody that I have seen makes an effective enclosure commercially. The universal ones suck and if you were to manufacture one that worked it would be model specific and would likely sell for more than $500.

OffGridGuy said:

I agree with the Honda generator recommendations. Particularly the Honda Inverter generators, ie EU3000is.

With an inverter type of generator, as your load decreases, the generator rpm, fuel consumption, and noise decreases.

There is no comparison between a normal generator, running 3600 or 1800 rpm all the time and a EU3000is that starts at about 1800 rpm and after a few minutes drops to a nice, gas sipping 1200 rpm. Also consider the noise.

I live in an off grid neighborhood is western Wa. and I have at least four neighbors running EU3000is's, for more than 5 or 6 years. In the winter months, with our lack of sun, they get their workout. I've heard of no reports of trips to the service shop.

I even have one neighbor who bought his unit used, from a rental shop, and he's been running for 5 winters.

And they are easy to convert to Propane.

Good luck

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Have you priced those lately? Theyre pushing close to $2500 now if you can find one.
A fine machine but thats a lot of money for his power demands, and is a lot of weight to move around.
The EU2000/2200 and 3000 have both been the industry standard. Meanwhile the industry has evolved and a lot of competition has sprouted up.
The only evolving Honda has done is to send production to Thailand, and Yamaha did the same to China.
As the Chinese are very good at copying each others' mfg processes in rapid form its hard to see what you will be getting in return for paying twice as much for the brand name other than the brand name- and Champion, Predator and others are brand names as well.
10-15 years ago there was Honda and there was everything else mostly junk. The gap has closed greatly, thats all Im saying.

Interestingly enough I have a 15 yo Honda minivan and was looking at newer ones. The new Odysseys are still appealing, but the Dodge/Chrysler competitors have been beating both Honda and Toyota in JD Power reliability ratings.
Who saw that coming?

BajaErin said:

I really like the Predator 3500 Inverter generator from Harbor Freight. I've had my share thanks to the 1 year warranty package. lol Changing from off-grid to solar, but will always have one as it has done us well (over 2,000 hours with regular oil chnages).

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The biggest issue I have seen on the Predator 3500 is when folks fill the gas tank to very top gas cap. The tank vapor recovery vent hole is just inside the tank cap and overfilling gas will allow gas to get sucked into the carbon vapor filter. This causes fuel to get sucked into air inlet of carborator from carbon filter causing engine to run rich and sputter. It also ruins the carbon filter.

Lot of YouTube videos how to disconnect carbon filter. Simpler to just not overfill gas tank.

Because you have an inverter/charger, I'd recommend an open-frame propane genny.

standby genny = generac-like (high initial cost, high repairs, dealer/service lock-in, auto-start & auto-choke)
open-frame genny = duromax-like (low initial cost, easy to work on, elec-start but no auto-choke or auto-start)
inverter genny = honda eu7000is-like (high initial cost, high repair costs, gas-only, elec-start, auto-choke)

We are rural & off-grid. Started w/ generac, but had to throw them out ... can't keep them running in a rural setting. Now running two same-model 12kw duromax propane gennys ... easy to keep running, two for no downtime. Looked into the eu's, but very high initial costs, too complex to maintain ourselves, and no propane (conversion kits available but not from honda, so warranty aspects possibly questionable); it's like a jet engine in there, with many expensive complex parts.

Our magnum 4024 inverter/charger takes whatever kind of power from any genny we feed it, and doesn't complain ... even "high-thd" gennys (we checked w/ magnum ... they don't care). For us, thd is FUD ... more important for sales tactics. We've settled on duromax propane gennys as the sweet spot of price/repairability/etc.

As an aside, I'd like to understand why inverter/generators are becoming a "thing" ... higher initial costs possibly better for sales numbers/profits? Not being able to fix it is possibly better for service revenue? Unsure where this piece of the industry is heading ...

Hope this helps ...

Inverter gennies are a thing because they're quieter, more fuel efficient, and the inverter hasn't proven to be a reliability bottleneck. Yeah it's more to go wrong, but solid state electronics are pretty reliable.

So, I can see a few really good use cases for an inverter/genny:
- eu2xxx while camping
- portability, for powering medical equipment on the go (no need to lug/connect an inverter)

It (EU7xxx) hasn't seemed to fit any of my use case (rural, off-grid) requirements of:
- lower initial cost (3 or 4 open-frame gennys for one EU7xxx)
- reliability (EU's are supposedly extremely reliable, but what if anything happens; contrast with two open-frames, side-by-side, at fraction of cost)
- continuous feed of fuel (after-market kits, but what impact on warranty)
- easy to work on, save on service calls (I need to find a free/dead EU7xxx, and take it apart ... this was easy on open-frame)
- gasoline (quality of) as a fuel (and as a repair point throughout the fuel system)

... any one of which starts to becomes a showstopper. I've had others tell me of 2000 hr MTTR on up to 10k MTTR ... not enough numbers here, just reports/threads on forums, but have seen both. Still an awful lot of fuel changes in there regardless of which lifespan number chosen.

One of the reports/threads I read dealt with the inverter going out; kind of expensive as a part, but some downtime incurred.

So, throw money at the problem, and get two EU's ... only the reliability problem got solved. I'd feel a bit better if Honda included dual-fuel ... 3 out of 5 problems resolved ... but for some reason (space inside the cube?) it just isn't there yet.

I do see these EU's as a replacement scheme for a comparable Generac, if you live in the city, or near enough to a dealer (especially one who will pick up and drop off) ... and you are good with the whole dealer/service thing (more $$$/time).

Will ... a vid on the EU7xxx?

I have been less than happy with my Honda EU1000i - like many on here I went with the Honda based on their reputation for reliability and quiet operation. However, the unit I bought must have been a lemon as I have not been able to get good, stable operation at full power (although no complaints about the extremely low noise level). When running idle or at moderate load I had to maintain some amount of choke to avoid stalling, and the throttle would never settle on an RPM setting. I even swapped out the carb with an OEM replacement but this didn’t seem to improve things. I have other Honda GX engines and haven’t had any problems but for the $$ the generator was a real disappointment.

I'm normally a "buy once, cry once" kind of person, but I've had amazing luck with Predator generators. Maybe I've just been lucky, but those things have been hard to kill in my experience so far.

@50ShadesOfDirt Sounds like a Honda inverter genny isn't for you.

I'm very pleased with my EU2200i. Would 100% buy exactly the same generator over again.

Solar Steve said:

haven’t had any problems but for the $$ the generator was a real disappointment.

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So why didn’t you just return it?